150mm guns

[mark1e]

On a T3-4 cruiser 150mm guns have 14km range.

On a T3-4 BB 150mm guns have 3km range.

That makes no sense and tells you why most players play OP cruisers.

[Vegas095]

Yeah I mean, it's not like BB's have these other really big guns that they can use. Those 150mm SECONDARY guns must be all they have..

[Userext]

OP cruisers? yeah sure....

[__Reichtangle__]

bad bait is bad

[Del_Mare]

On a T3-4 cruiser 150mm guns have 14km range.

On a T3-4 BB 150mm guns have 3km range.

That makes no sense and tells you why most players play OP cruisers.

 

on a t3-4 cruisers, those 150mm guns work in combination with their fire support center, elevated above the ship, measuring distance and speed etc., telling the gunnery crews what parameters they have to use to properly hit their target at high distances.

 

on a t3-4 bb the 150mm guns are used by more or less skilled crewman without any support, they aim "along the barrel" and press the button. thats why they only start shooting at close distances, and even then miss 8 out of 10 rounds.

 

and please oppose my bb with your op cruiser next time =) i am glad to show you exactly how op your cruiser is

[mark1e]

[edited]

[Userext]

[edited]

 

You obviously dont know how to play. Thats it there is nothing wrong with "not knowing" but everything about "blaming it on other stuff" is wrong. You are probably a newbie. Dont expect to do 1080 no scope kills here alright?

[mark1e]

Wargaming is trying to produce a balance where each ship will have even "power", but there is a huge difference between BB and DD and they were never equal. Otherwise nobody would bear idiotically high expense of building the bigger ships. So what does Wargaming do? They slap the logic in the face and produce balance that has zero reality. Please next time make My little pony game and don't pretend it has anything to do with brains and real life.

[mark1e]

 

You obviously dont know how to play. Thats it there is nothing wrong with "not knowing" but everything about "blaming it on other stuff" is wrong. You are probably a newbie. Dont expect to do 1080 no scope kills here alright?

 

Please stop trolling me and stick to the topic which is: 150mm guns.

[Userext]

 

Please stop trolling me and stick to the topic which is: 150mm guns.

 

I am not trolling you. But i dont want to get into this thread. Now you see i talk a lot. I use a lot of statical proofs. Which is why people dont like me much.

 

Now first of all a kawachi with 8 guns looking at the same side is better than st louis. Why? Because kawachi has a high damage potential. You have to learn where to hit. This is the only problem with battleships. Other ships dont have this type of thig which is why people dont complain about it. I am not a good BB player. I had Fuso. My advice would be use AP against most of your targets except destoryers. And try to hit the side where it has more guns. Bigger citadel better chance to do full damage. Now i dont know much about kawachi's 305mm AP shell max damage. I skipped it pre 0.4.0 so i cant give you much information through that but if we would say it has 7k max damage potential per shell it can go up to 56k damage per one broadside. But dont expect those guns to have same power. If you want realism they would have given BBs less than %5 hit ratio with main battery and lower hit ratio with secondary guns(main at cruisers) Ships werent accurate in real life 

 

And about the amount of ship produced at WW2

 

Naval forces[edit]

Power	Total large ships	Carriers	Battleships	Cruisers	Destroyers	Frigates	Corvettes	Sloops	Patrol boats	Submarines	De/ Mining	Landing craft	Personnel
British Empire	890	41(24)	6[note 1]	102	291	209	387	33	4,209	238	1,244	9,538	1,227,415
USA and territories	6,771	124(101)	8	48	349					245		35,000	x
USSR			2[note 2]	2	25					52
Other
Allies		165(125)	16	152	665	209	387	33	4,209	568	1,244	44,538
Germany & territories		1			17					1,152			1,500,000
Italian Empire		1	3	6	6					63
Japanese Empire		18	2	9	63					199
Other
Axis	'	'	'	'	'	'	'			1,414

 

Battleships were expensive while destroyers were cheap. But destroyers carried a bigger more explosive ammo type: torpedoes. One long lance(610mm) has 500 kg explosive in it. Imagine 2-3 of them hitting a battleship. Even if it doesnt blow the whole ship up a ship that takes one ship launched torpedo was not capable of fighting anymore. It would do too much damage to everything.

 

there were diffrent torpedoes of course. Diffrent calibres of torpedoes

 

 

 

[Thlurp]

it looks more like you're the troll and being ignorant doesnt help it mark1e

 

just telling you, that this is not the way to get nice and proper answers

 

edit: dang, you beat me by 5 seconds userext, and yes i hate you, i already told you that

[Oberst__Schulz]

.

[Timothyvaas]

 

I am not trolling you. But i dont want to get into this thread. Now you see i talk a lot. I use a lot of statical proofs. Which is why people dont like me much.

 

Now first of all a kawachi with 8 guns looking at the same side is better than st louis. Why? Because kawachi has a high damage potential. You have to learn where to hit. This is the only problem with battleships. Other ships dont have this type of thig which is why people dont complain about it. I am not a good BB player. I had Fuso. My advice would be use AP against most of your targets except destoryers. And try to hit the side where it has more guns. Bigger citadel better chance to do full damage. Now i dont know much about kawachi's 305mm AP shell max damage. I skipped it pre 0.4.0 so i cant give you much information through that but if we would say it has 7k max damage potential per shell it can go up to 56k damage per one broadside. But dont expect those guns to have same power. If you want realism they would have given BBs less than %5 hit ratio with main battery and lower hit ratio with secondary guns(main at cruisers) Ships werent accurate in real life 

 

And about the amount of ship produced at WW2

 

Naval forces[edit]

Power	Total large ships	Carriers	Battleships	Cruisers	Destroyers	Frigates	Corvettes	Sloops	Patrol boats	Submarines	De/ Mining	Landing craft	Personnel
British Empire	890	41(24)	6[note 1]	102	291	209	387	33	4,209	238	1,244	9,538	1,227,415
USA and territories	6,771	124(101)	8	48	349					245		35,000	x
USSR			2[note 2]	2	25					52
Other
Allies		165(125)	16	152	665	209	387	33	4,209	568	1,244	44,538
Germany & territories		1			17					1,152			1,500,000
Italian Empire		1	3	6	6					63
Japanese Empire		18	2	9	63					199
Other
Axis	'	'	'	'	'	'	'			1,414

 

Battleships were expensive while destroyers were cheap. But destroyers carried a bigger more explosive ammo type: torpedoes. One long lance(610mm) has 500 kg explosive in it. Imagine 2-3 of them hitting a battleship. Even if it doesnt blow the whole ship up a ship that takes one ship launched torpedo was not capable of fighting anymore. It would do too much damage to everything.

 

there were diffrent torpedoes of course. Diffrent calibres of torpedoes

 

 

 

 

[AgarwaenME]

Wargaming is trying to produce a balance where each ship will have even "power", but there is a huge difference between BB and DD and they were never equal. Otherwise nobody would bear idiotically high expense of building the bigger ships. So what does Wargaming do? They slap the logic in the face and produce balance that has zero reality. Please next time make My little pony game and don't pretend it has anything to do with brains and real life.

 

So how do you balance the game then? Make people drive 5 DDs at the same time so their power is equal?

[MassiveDYT]

OP cruisers? yeah sure....

 

They are the most consitantly performing ones, tho

[mmmbeer]

The secondary guns should have full range like they do on cruisers main armament that carry the same guns, but the BB ones are nerfed due to balance purposes. A battleship would be king of the game except against the planes of a carrier (like in real life) otherwise. WG concept is that one ship should be competitive against another, even if that ship is a small destroyer against a mighty battleship. Realistic; no. Fun arcade...yes. Just make sure you unlearn all the stuff from real history (including tactics) and then enjoy the game as it is. Because this is not likely to be made realistic anytime soon.

 

The only question is how much nerf is to much nerf. 3-5 km range on the BB secondaries is to low seing as destroyers can have as much as 10-20 km torpedo range.

[Userext]

 

They are the most consitantly performing ones, tho

 

no those you mention are CVs CA game play is fine little bit of tweaking with HE and they are good to go

[MassiveDYT]

 

no those you mention are CVs CA game play is fine little bit of tweaking with HE and they are good to go

 

Think about it though , great captains in american cruisers are absolutely lethal to both DD's and BB's

[Userext]

The only question is how much nerf is to much nerf. 3-5 km range on the BB secondaries is to low seing as destroyers can have as much as 10-20 km torpedo range.

 

Izumo and yamato both have up to 10km secondaries. DDs get over 10km torps at fubuki and after. But it is a miracle to hit ships 10+km and impossible to hit at 15+km. Yes 10-15km can sometimes happen but not often enough to make them OP. Also 15+km ones have %0.000001 chance to hit yet they sometimes do.

 

The problem here is that 20km torps can travel 1km at 5.5 secs. That means they will reach at 10km in 55 secs. that means 14km range requires some weirdo to dont push a button and not get hit for  77 secs. Do you think thats possible?

 

Battleships can get secondary range upgrades you do realise that right?

[Deckeru_Maiku]

mark1e, on 01 July 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

So comparing Kawachi with St. Louis it turns out that St. Louis has much better firepower and it can just keep the shells raining, while Kawachi has long 30s reload breaks. Secondary armament on Kawachi is useless.

 

You've been the Kawachi that I solo'd with my St.Louis today?

Anyway, if a BB doesn't use it's advantages, something like that is supposed to happen.

[Userext]

 

Think about it though , great captains in american cruisers are absolutely lethal to both DD's and BB's

 

Lethal to DD is normal. Lethal to BB is not. A great captain in BB can kill a great captain in USCA. But some doesnt go for destroyer captains. A great destroyer captain isnt lethal against a great battleship captain. When they are balancing stuff they dont care about how it will be when a tomato fights off a unicum. They think about average joe fight or unicum fights. Because balancing isnt about making ships even through their players. It is about making them balanced through their stats. 

[MassiveDYT]

 

Lethal to DD is normal. Lethal to BB is not. A great captain in BB can kill a great captain in USCA. But some doesnt go for destroyer captains. A great destroyer captain isnt lethal against a great battleship captain. When they are balancing stuff they dont care about how it will be when a tomato fights off a unicum. They think about average joe fight or unicum fights. Because balancing isnt about making ships even through their players. It is about making them balanced through their stats. 

 

Best way to deal with BBs as a CA is to use your speed to keep them at 14-15 km distance, it then gives you reaction time to dodge all their shots, just watch for the muzzle flash and start turning, do it enough games you will notice BB's cant really deal with that particular scenario, because they miss, and you peper down their hp by 10-15 k until their next reload, eventually you set them on fire and then they are hopeless.

 

Great BB captains can be skilled and hit well placed shots of-course, but great CA captain can put them in these really akward death-lock like situatioons

[Userext]

Best way to deal with BBs is use your speed to keep them at 14-15 km distance, it then gives you reaction time to use dodge all their shots, just watch for the muzzle flash and start turning, do it enough games you will notice BB's cant really deal with that particular scenario, because they miss, and you peper down their hp by 10-15 k until their next reload, eventually you set them on fire and then they are hopeless 

 

Thats like pulling BBs to ambushes in destroyers. A good BB captain will not let you have the advantage. If its down to 1v1 it makes more sense for BB to just let cruiser come to him. It is easy to create tactics against BBs but what will you do when they use counter tactics?

[MassiveDYT]

 

Thats like pulling BBs to ambushes in destroyers. A good BB captain will not let you have the advantage. If its down to 1v1 it makes more sense for BB to just let cruiser come to him. It is easy to create tactics against BBs but what will you do when they use counter tactics?

 

The thing is, while in a CA, if BB is not taking your bait, you have the speed and agility luxury to switch targets , and keep at it until it sticks.

 

Simply disengage, and big fatty BBs will be left behind slow and looking stupid.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love BB's in fact, can't wait to be flying that North Carolina (my dream ship).

 

I'm not talking as a perfect CA captain, I'm talking as an adept BB captain who knows what to be careful off when dealing with adept CA's

 

PTSD if you will

[Userext]

 

The thing is, while in a CA, if BB is not taking your bait, you have the speed and agility luxury to switch targets , and keep at it until it sticks.

 

Simply disengage, and big fatty BBs will be left behind slow and looking stupid.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love BB's in fact, can't wait to be flying that North Carolina (my dream ship).

 

I'm not talking as a perfect CA captain, I'm talking as an adept BB captain who knows what to be careful off when dealing with adept CA's

 

Yes but while you are doing that enemy has CAs too. If you are thinking about a teamplay(12vs12) many things can happen. 1v1 ? There is a simple thing that can happen. the CA will be drawn to the battleship. One way or another BB captain will force CA captain to his advantage area. This is like CA vs DD. a destroyer can spam torpedoes to keep a cruiser away. it can smoke and run. But at a teamplay planes chasing you is going to remove that advantage. A cruiser player wouldnt engage destroyer at a island covered place. Once i was in ecounter mode hot spot. There was a BB and me in my sims left. I was cappig at low health. So i hid behind the island in flag circle. Battleship player took the bait and tried to come around. I killed him with late fired torps when he came around the corner. Because i knew he was going to slow down a bit to dodge torpedoes. A counter class can sustain better advantage situation