See HE is still the ammo of choice

[woppy101]

I see he is still op and the ammo of choice, is it me or does AP feel like it's not doing as much damage 

[Nechrom]

I see he is still op and the ammo of choice, is it me or does AP feel like it's not doing as much damage 

 

Unless you can do reliable citadel penetrations, AP is not the way to go.

[Captain_Edwards]

Low tiers? Ofc HE is the ammo of choice, penetration values are minuscule for low tier ship weapons. But once you get some proper calibre guns and you can aim, AP is definitely a good choice.

[Maj_Havoc]

HE and AP had very different roles in naval gunnery than they did in tank combat; that everyone assumes HE should be inferior is wrong, yet, despite that WG have nerfed HE time and again as a result of the whine.

 

HE rounds were the only rounds used at extreme range, where plunging fire meant they decimated the decks, smashing radar, spotting equipment, radio tower, weapons, smoke stacks and any crew in the upper decks/superstructure, and they would also start fires bursting high pressure oil lines that often run under the deck, thereby reducing the ships fighting ability. They would then close range to sink her with AP and/or torps, where HE would be far less effective against the belt armour due to the trajectory flattening out as you approach the target.

[Liare]

HE and AP had very different roles in naval gunnery than they did in tank combat; that everyone assumes HE should be inferior is wrong, yet, despite that WG have nerfed HE time and again as a result of the whine.

 

HE rounds were the only rounds used at extreme range, where plunging fire meant they decimated the decks, smashing radar, spotting equipment, radio tower, weapons and any crew in the upper decks/superstructure, and thereby reducing the ships fighting ability. They would then close range to sink her with AP and/or torps, where HE would be far less effective against the belt armour due to the trajectory flattening out as you approach the target.

 

that's a nice story, but it has no actual bearing on gameplay as it is.

 

you have a choice right now, you can load AP and roll the dice on citadel penetrations, or you can load HE and do consistent damage as long as you hit plus apply a stacking DOT effect that puts HE pretty much ahead when it comes to DPM on average (Citadel hit+RNG from shell scatter applies), the higher your rate of fire the more advantageous it is to just load HE and let it rip.

 

you can occasionally gain an advantage by loading AP at long range and do plunging fire, especially on lower tier ships designed before Jutland due to their amusingly horrible deck armoring, but it works quite all-right even against USN "All or nothing" designs.

[Bigeddie]

HE and AP had very different roles in naval gunnery than they did in tank combat; that everyone assumes HE should be inferior is wrong, yet, despite that WG have nerfed HE time and again as a result of the whine.

 

HE rounds were the only rounds used at extreme range, where plunging fire meant they decimated the decks, smashing radar, spotting equipment, radio tower, weapons, smoke stacks and any crew in the upper decks/superstructure, and they would also start fires bursting high pressure oil lines that often run under the deck, thereby reducing the ships fighting ability. They would then close range to sink her with AP and/or torps, where HE would be far less effective against the belt armour due to the trajectory flattening out as you approach the target.

 

Hey nice logical well reasoned answer

[Kirasa]

WG said that HE will be the ammunition for those who don't have the skills to get citadel hits, and AP for those who are certain enough to get citadel hits reliably.

[YukiEiriKun]

HE and AP had very different roles in naval gunnery than they did in tank combat; that everyone assumes HE should be inferior is wrong, yet, despite that WG have nerfed HE time and again as a result of the whine.

 

HE rounds were the only rounds used at extreme range, where plunging fire meant they decimated the decks, smashing radar, spotting equipment, radio tower, weapons, smoke stacks and any crew in the upper decks/superstructure, and they would also start fires bursting high pressure oil lines that often run under the deck, thereby reducing the ships fighting ability. They would then close range to sink her with AP and/or torps, where HE would be far less effective against the belt armour due to the trajectory flattening out as you approach the target.

 

Actually I would say the opposite, especially when talking about shooting at BB's;

AP when firing from the extreme distance because the plummeting hunk of metal has very good chanse to go straight through the less armoured deck.

HE when close range UNLESS you are sure that your AP can go through the belt.

 

I try to follow these guidelines;

 

When BB shoots BB -> AP

When BB shoots same/higher tier CA -> AP

When BB shoots lower tier CA -> HE

 

When CA shoots BB at long range -> AP

When CA shoots BB at mid to close range -> HE

When CA shoots CA -> AP

 

When DD shoots whatever -> HE

When whoever is shooting at DD or CV -> HE

 

[Maj_Havoc]

 

that's a nice story, but it has no actual bearing on gameplay as it is.

 

you have a choice right now, you can load AP and roll the dice on citadel penetrations, or you can load HE and do consistent damage as long as you hit plus apply a stacking DOT effect that puts HE pretty much ahead when it comes to DPM on average (Citadel hit+RNG from shell scatter applies), the higher your rate of fire the more advantageous it is to just load HE and let it rip.

 

you can occasionally gain an advantage by loading AP at long range and do plunging fire, especially on lower tier ships designed before Jutland due to their amusingly horrible deck armoring, but it works quite all-right even against USN "All or nothing" designs.

 

It has everything to do with gameplay, due to the simplistic ballistics in game it behaves in game exactly as it should, however, HE continues to be nerfed to a level that is not comparable to the relative performance of AP irl. This is a game that features naval warfare, featuring real platforms and real weapons systems, where both HE and AP had their place, where target notwithstanding, much of it was dependant on the relative range and ballistic trajectory of the weapon at hand.

 

While there is a need for game balance, balance should be comparable between ships of a similar tier and not reliant on nerfing one ammunition in favour of another where that difference did not exist in the real platforms and for no other reason than ignorance and uninformed opinion. Just like wot, a lot of folks only want as much realism as suits them, and to hell with the truth, when it doesn't.

WG said that HE will be the ammunition for those who don't have the skills to get citadel hits, and AP for those who are certain enough to get citadel hits reliably.

 

Take your butt hurt whining else where, learn to use both AP and HE where they are at their strongest.

[Kirasa]

 

It has everything to do with gameplay, due to the simplistic ballistics in game it behaves in game exactly as it should, however, HE continues to be nerfed to a level that is not comparable to the relative performance of AP irl. This is a game that features naval warfare, featuring real platforms and real weapons systems, where both HE and AP had their place, where target notwithstanding, much of it was dependant on the relative range and ballistic trajectory of the weapon at hand.

 

While there is a need for game balance, balance should be comparable between ships of a similar tier and not reliant on nerfing one ammunition in favour of another where that difference did not exist in the real platforms and for no other reason than ignorance and uninformed opinion. Just like wot, a lot of folks only want as much realism as suits them and to hell with the truth when it doesn't.

 

Take your butt hurt whining else where, learn to use both AP and HE where they are at their strongest.

 

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I know how I can use which ammunition. I just stated what WG(!) said what they want the ammunition types to be.

[NatteFrost]

it is primary unless you are in a battleship.

 

ap is only better then he when you land cit hits. if you dont cit hit, he is miles better.

 

[Vanhal]

Low tiers? Ofc HE is the ammo of choice, penetration values are minuscule for low tier ship weapons. But once you get some proper calibre guns and you can aim, AP is definitely a good choice.

 

On test server it was 5+ tier when you could use AP. lower, only HE.

[Bl4ckh0g]

AP is only viable in medium to long range, since even against pre-Jutland ships You will not gonna penetrate their decks with cruiser caliber guns.

Essentially the 14 cm, 12.7 cm, 4",early 5", early 6" caliber guns are only viable with HE rounds. 15.5 cm, 6"/47 and 5"/38 guns can be used against CL, CA and destroyers with AP rounds from medium-to close range(less than 10 km), Over 10 km only HE.

8" guns can be used with AP against CL,CA from medium range, BB from close range, DD and other targets from long range only HE.

12"+ guns AP against heavily armored targets tier 8+CA, and BB at all ranges. HE against everything else.

 

[Maj_Havoc]

Something I should have pointed out that does not help, is WG's designation of HE and AP, particularly at larger calibres; rounds designated HE in wows were more often than not of the HC type (high capacity). These used a bursting charge around 15- 20% compared to the 2.5 - 3,5% used in an APCBC round, they were fused and had a ballistic cap, and were perfectly able to penetrate deck armour. The 16in Mk13 HC weighed in at 2700lbs and would leave a crater 50 feet in diameter and 20 feet deep when used on land. Indeed as I pointed out else where the Omaha would often fire a single HC mk13 to clear helicopter landing zones in the jungle during the Vietnam war, clearing all vegetation in an area in excess of 200 yards. The 13in HC round weighed in around 1400lbs and its crater on land was around 30 feet in diameter.

[Bl4ckh0g]

Something I should have pointed out that does not help, is WG's designation of HE and AP, particularly at larger calibres; rounds designated HE in wows were more often than not of the HC type (high capacity). These used a bursting charge around 15- 20% compared to the 2.5 - 3,5% used in an APCBC round, they were fused and had a ballistic cap, and were perfectly able to penetrate deck armour. The 16in Mk13 HC weighed in at 2700lbs and would leave a crater 50 feet in diameter and 20 feet deep when used on land. Indeed as I pointed out else where the Omaha would often fire a single HC mk13 to clear helicopter landing zones in the jungle during the Vietnam war, clearing all vegetation in an area in excess of 200 yards. The 13in HC round weighed in around 1400lbs and its crater on land was around 30 feet in diameter.

 

Afaik HC fuzes were usually set to explode on impact.

[Liare]

 

It has everything to do with gameplay, due to the simplistic ballistics in game it behaves in game exactly as it should, however, HE continues to be nerfed to a level that is not comparable to the relative performance of AP irl. This is a game that features naval warfare, featuring real platforms and real weapons systems, where both HE and AP had their place, where target notwithstanding, much of it was dependant on the relative range and ballistic trajectory of the weapon at hand.

 

While there is a need for game balance, balance should be comparable between ships of a similar tier and not reliant on nerfing one ammunition in favour of another where that difference did not exist in the real platforms and for no other reason than ignorance and uninformed opinion. Just like wot, a lot of folks only want as much realism as suits them, and to hell with the truth, when it doesn't.

 

as long as HE mechanics means you get to bypass the armor and apply the fire DOT it's still going to be miles more reliable than AP, that we have a ammo choice that effectively means you can choose to bypass the entire protection scheme of your target it another matter entirely, but then that's apparently a feature.

 

you either fire HE and do on average lower, but consistent damage with a chance of a nice damage over time effect, or you fire AP and gamble on getting a citadel pen to make it worthwhile, actual armor penetrations deal 10-20% of max potential damage, making them on average, worse than regular HE hits, you need the citadel hits to make AP worthwhile.

[anonym_Rd0TOEllW6Wk]

The few games I've played so far (since patch) H.E. has been spammed like crazy, none of the above statements about when to use H.E or A.P. 

has applied. Of course that was only up to Tier IV so far

[Kyono]

Take every fire preventing skill you can. Still get set on fire every time you get hit. GG WG! 

[Bl4ckh0g]

The few games I've played so far (since patch) H.E. has been spammed like crazy, none of the above statements about when to use H.E or A.P. 

has applied. Of course that was only up to Tier IV so far

 

AP is only viable in medium to long range, since even against pre-Jutland ships You will not gonna penetrate their decks with cruiser caliber guns.

Essentially the 14 cm, 12.7 cm, 4",early 5", early 6" caliber guns are only viable with HE rounds. 15.5 cm, 6"/47 and 5"/38 guns can be used against CL, CA and destroyers with AP rounds from medium-to close range(less than 10 km), Over 10 km only HE.

8" guns can be used with AP against CL,CA from medium range, BB from close range, DD and other targets from long range only HE.

12"+ guns AP against heavily armored targets tier 8+CA, and BB at all ranges. HE against everything else.

 

 

[Kyono]

Set on fire. Put fire out. Immediately set on fire again. Fire goes out. Set on fire. Repair. Set on fire.

 

 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

I try to follow these guidelines;

 

When BB shoots BB -> AP / depends on the range and the angle the target has to my guns. Sharp angle and low/medium range: HE. Sharp angle at long range: AP bc. plunging fire. If I shoot from 85° to 95° at the broadside at any range: AP

When BB shoots same/higher tier CA -> AP / usually works in my experience

When BB shoots lower tier CA -> HE / I use AP here as it usually makes lower tier CA and especially CL get squished like tomatoes

 

When CA shoots BB at long range -> AP / only at lower tier BBs... if the first couple shots don't do serious damage -> HE

When CA shoots BB at mid to close range -> HE / usually works in my experience

When CA shoots CA -> AP / only at same/lower tier CA/CLs... if the first couple shots don't do serious damage -> HE. Also see BB vs. BB for angling and distance

 

When DD shoots whatever -> HE / DDs can do nice damage with AP vs. early (low tier) CLs

When whoever is shooting at DD or CV -> HE / low tier IJN CLs can do nice damage against DDs with AP, but HE does more component damage

 

 

Put up some stuff in blue about how I handle ammunition.

 

I'd advise everybody to make your own experiences in game. 'Cause from what I think I have seen, there's no 100% sure, fully proof, guaranteed way to make damage. Gun calibers, ship's armour, type of ship (and size of citadel) and probably some more variables seem to be taken into account when measuring the damage of a hit.

 

Especially the first Tiers - I to IV - can drive you crazy, with the different gun calibers on BBs and Cruisers

[McCracken666]

Low tiers? Ofc HE is the ammo of choice, penetration values are minuscule for low tier ship weapons. But once you get some proper calibre guns and you can aim, AP is definitely a good choice.

 

This.

[Vanhal]

Take every fire preventing skill you can. Still get set on fire every time you get hit. GG WG! 

Set on fire. Put fire out. Immediately set on fire again. Fire goes out. Set on fire. Repair. Set on fire.

 

You love your BB's, don't you ? 

[morti271]

WG said that HE will be the ammunition for those who don't have the skills to get citadel hits, and AP for those who are certain enough to get citadel hits reliably.

 

And how is that possible with a 98% RNG-based accuracy? There is no reliability, only "some luck".

[Deckeru_Maiku]

 

You love your BB's, don't you ? 

 

BBs are fun

 

Had that nice fight in my Kawachi... sailed all alone to a corner of the map. US Tier III BB was waiting there for me, showing me his broadside, an island behind him. I was driving straight ahead, chasing a Cruiser.

While I was pumping shots from my forward guns into the BB, the cruiser peppered me with HE and set my ship on fire... The BB used AP and most of the shells were bounced, due to flat trajectory and angling. The cruiser moved past that BB, and went on to turn around the island. And the BB turned too, to fire his broadside at me as I went past him

While I went past that BB the secondries took down quite a lot of it's HP and one salvo from the main turrets finished him.... then I set my engine to reverse, and when the cruiser came around the island it caught a salvo in it's broadside too...

 

The I pressed R to stop the last fires and T to repair.... ok, I needed to press T again after the cooldown and I got a nice medal for surviving those 40% (or so...) damage of total HP from fire...

 

Oh.. yeah... I was shooting AP all the time...