The last 4 points dilemma

[SmokinSerj]

To begin with, I initially had Halsey on DM, (and he was also spec'd for Ohio and Massa - so with an accent to secondaries). After reading some other topics on the forum, I decided that I have better chances to trigger his talents if I move him to Montana, which I quickly did.

After this "smart" move, I realized that his "Long Range Secondary battery shells" skill is a 3 points waste on Montana which only has by default 7.3 km secondaries iirc.

 

Therefore, now, as I got Halsey to 21 pts ... where should I put the last 4 points, in your opinion?

 

 

If it was only for Ohio and Massa, I'd put them to Close quarter combat... but I rarely get with Montana closer than 9 km to anyone.

So I'm basically oscillating between BoS (+another 1 pt skill) and CE ....

[doerhoff_damian]

I would go with CE so that you can play a bit more agressive and you have a much better chance at catching dds that have detected you with radar

 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

25 minutes ago, doerhoff_damian said:

I would go with CE so that you can play a bit more agressive and you have a much better chance at catching dds that have detected you with radar

 

 

How effective CE actually is in today's meta?

[doerhoff_damian]

Vor 19 Minuten, Karasu_Browarszky sagte:

How effective CE actually is in today's meta?

I do not know your Playstyle but I would consider it very usefull

[Karasu_Browarszky]

33 minutes ago, doerhoff_damian said:

I do not know your Playstyle but I would consider it very usefull

 

Well, I have pretty much held onto the established maxim from the old days that CE is very useful, or pretty much mandatory for certain classes/builds. CE effectively gave you a relative range/dispersion boost. However, a lot of that I think carries over from the golden olden days, possibly from the RTS carrier era and definitely before the emergence of the subs in gameplay.

[Wulf_Ace]

either you go full secondary or dont waste any point on secondary. No point in going half.

[Wulf_Ace]

My build with Ohio.

 

But if you are using your commander on Massa, then use same commander on Ohio, since Ohio can be a secondary ship.

If you want him on the Montana then dont go secondary or half secondary build. Just use it on some other american premium BB if you have it. Massa is good for farming but only works with Ohio in tier 10.

I do like my Halsey more on Gearing then on BB.

 

Just played this game in ranked, works nicely.

 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

Is a secondary build worth it with Ohio?

[Wulf_Ace]

15 minutes ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Is a secondary build worth it with Ohio?

yes very much, but good thing about Ohio you can build him as your playstyle, close combat BB or sniper BB, works nicely

[SmokinSerj]

12 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

either you go full secondary or dont waste any point on secondary. No point in going half.

 

You're right...but the bad is already half done. :) So I'll probably reset him when another commanders reset will be available... but till then I need to have him working the best possible, given the conditions.

[Wulf_Ace]

5 minutes ago, SmokinSerj said:

 

You're right...but the bad is already half done. :) So I'll probably reset him when another commanders reset will be available... but till then I need to have him working the best possible, given the conditions.

Ohio is a great ship even if you dont use any commander

[TSD_87]

This is the build i'm using, getting the stats below the printscreen.

I try to play it medium to close ranges, and get burned down ALOT. Might need to switch that torp protection and turret rotations too the fire prevention one...

 

Edit: also using this dude on Massa, Georgia and Montana (yes i run secondary montana)

 

 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

26 minutes ago, TSD_87 said:

This is the build i'm using, getting the stats below the printscreen.

I try to play it medium to close ranges, and get burned down ALOT. Might need to switch that torp protection and turret rotations too the fire prevention one...

 

Edit: also using this dude on Massa, Georgia and Montana (yes i run secondary montana)

 

 

 

You don't seem to have fire prevention, many have said that is a necessity.

[TSD_87]

5 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

 

You don't seem to have fire prevention, many have said that is a necessity.

Yeah, I do burn alot... 

[NewHorizons_1]

15 hours ago, doerhoff_damian said:

I would go with CE so that you can play a bit more agressive and you have a much better chance at catching dds that have detected you with radar

How often does a Massa/Montana/Ohio get detected by DD radar?

[doerhoff_damian]

Vor 1 Stunde, NewHorizons_1 sagte:

How often does a Massa/Montana/Ohio get detected by DD radar?

you never know.

 

but i was more refering to having this captain on a cruiser like the DM he mentioned and using radar yourself

[ollonborre]

2 hours ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

 

You don't seem to have fire prevention, many have said that is a necessity.

Depends. On a tank build BB then FP is a must. On a secondary BB you are left with a dilemma since secondary build BB's are very point heavy to actually be good. 

 

On the Ohio that I have a secondary build on I run expert loader (or gun feeder, can't remember what it's called now), brisk, adrenaline rush, extra secondary range, super intendent, concealment expert and secondary accuracy and reload.

 

The Ohio has fast heals and not great concealment, so I made the tradeoff to maximise some form of sneakiness and the fast heals coupled with US damage control can offset fires somewhat.

 

Considering you need time and positioning to make a secondary build work I would say concealment holds greater value.

 

And as for CE and concealment in general, concealment is still a great value to maximise if you don't have anything special in mind.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

20 hours ago, SmokinSerj said:

To begin with, I initially had Halsey on DM, (and he was also spec'd for Ohio and Massa - so with an accent to secondaries). After reading some other topics on the forum, I decided that I have better chances to trigger his talents if I move him to Montana, which I quickly did.

After this "smart" move, I realized that his "Long Range Secondary battery shells" skill is a 3 points waste on Montana which only has by default 7.3 km secondaries iirc.

 

Therefore, now, as I got Halsey to 21 pts ... where should I put the last 4 points, in your opinion?

 

 

If it was only for Ohio and Massa, I'd put them to Close quarter combat... but I rarely get with Montana closer than 9 km to anyone.

So I'm basically oscillating between BoS (+another 1 pt skill) and CE ....

 

I wholeheartedly recommend that you read this community based site with all WoWs shp commander builds:

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XfsIIbyORQAxgOE-ao_nVSP8_fpa1igg0t48pXZFIu0

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[tocqueville8]

16 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

either you go full secondary or dont waste any point on secondary. No point in going half.

There's an argument to be made that the Ohio has "good enough" dispersion on the secondaries to begin with, plus with her fast turret traverse (and accuracy, not reload, in slot #6) you can take secondaries in slot #3 "for free".

 

You won't get as many hits, but you'll still set a few fires on large targets and with Gun Feeder + fast traverse you'll easily follow them up with permafires. In exchange, you'll keep all the 4-point tank skills, which have more general use: ERE because fast heals, CE because it's hard to snipe with slow shells, FP because...FP.

And on the other hand, the most likely 3-pointer is BoS, which you can mimic with the appropriate flags.

 

Indeed, the google doc suggests secondary range only, though it does also put CQC ahead of CE 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

I assume the secondary build and CE are mutually exclusive, pretty much. Is it correct to assume, that the more you intend to engage in 'sniping' from the back line, the more you will make use of CE, and less of any secondary builds? This would seem like a 'safe' option, but what about when those DD's or something else manages to sneak on you?

[tocqueville8]

Just now, Karasu_Browarszky said:

I assume the secondary build and CE are mutually exclusive, pretty much. Is it correct to assume, that the more you intend to engage in 'sniping' from the back line, the more you will make use of CE, and less of any secondary builds? This would seem like a 'safe' option, but what about when those DD's or something else manages to sneak on you?

Huh? No, kind of the opposite imho.

It's not "if I play close enough, concealment won't matter", it's "in order to get close enough, concealment will matter".

 

Also consider the other classes: you take full concealment on knife-fighting, DD-hunting, cap-contesting DDs with poor ballistics, but you might skip it on open-water gunboats. You don't say "if I play Daring, my aim is to run into enemy DDs anyway, so I don't need concealment": you improve it precisely to set up a better fight.

Same with lighthouse cruiser builds: you end up playing at longer range because you have worse concealment.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

5 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

Huh? No, kind of the opposite imho.

It's not "if I play close enough, concealment won't matter", it's "in order to get close enough, concealment will matter".

 

Also consider the other classes: you take full concealment on knife-fighting, DD-hunting, cap-contesting DDs with poor ballistics, but you might skip it on open-water gunboats. You don't say "if I play Daring, my aim is to run into enemy DDs anyway, so I don't need concealment": you improve it precisely to set up a better fight.

Same with lighthouse cruiser builds: you end up playing at longer range because you have worse concealment.

 

Interesting, I've never thought of CE that way, more in terms of open water play. I've always picked it on DD's, though, even on gunboats I think, but I mostly prefer torpedo builds.

[Sir_Sinksalot]

5 hours ago, SmokinSerj said:

 

You're right...but the bad is already half done. :) So I'll probably reset him when another commanders reset will be available... but till then I need to have him working the best possible, given the conditions.

 

Well, since that's the case you should finish the job and apply those 4 points to Manual Secondary Battery Aiming. 

 

With commanders secondary battery skills it's nearly a case of all or nothing. A player shouldn't waste 3 skill points on extending secondary range if they're not in a position to also select the 4 point MSBA for significantly improved accuracy, regardless of what equipment you choose. You're just not going to hit anything at long range with your secondary batteries without the 4 point accuracy buff so it's a waste of what could have been a far more useful 3 point skill at that point. 

 

The only exception might be if a player ignores the 3 point range skill and instead takes the 4 point accuracy buff. Some higher tier BB's have a pretty decent secondary range by default along with secondary equipment and signals so if they don't have a 21 pointer or might prefer to put the 3 points on some other skill they can just go with the 4 point secondary accuracy buff but certainly never take the 3 point range skill buff without the 4 point accuracy buff too. 

 

When you get the chance to reset the skill points for free, have already decided where you want that "fancy" commander to go. This boils down to what ships you play most but regardless, I feel this is a case of needing two commanders. One for a secondary build, and one for a more typical primary battery/tanky BB sort of build. You just can't fill both rolls with a single commander without being overly compromised and gimped in one area or another, and I think that was the point when WG devs came up with these skills and their points requirement. 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

Opinions?

https://www.wowsft.com/ship?index=PASB510&modules=1111&upgrades=512322&commander=PAW102&skills=9986305&ar=100&flags=1154&consumables=111&pos=0

[tocqueville8]

1 hour ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Opinions?

https://www.wowsft.com/ship?index=PASB510&modules=1111&upgrades=512322&commander=PAW102&skills=9986305&ar=100&flags=1154&consumables=111&pos=0

It's a bit contradictory: full secondaries suggests going in unapologetically...but without CE they're going to see you come...but you double down with CQC...but then you take Brisk (instead of, say, Vigilance) for repositioning...but again, it won't proc often without CE...