Could we stop with that Supership Hoax and just call them T11 ?

[Siagor]

32 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

You still don't understand. You are sinking a booster that makes 1m credits in similar circumstances to make 30k. You are losing Credits in the form of this single booster.

Fair point.

 

I don't mind losing money when in meh game on t11, I can make up in the very next battle with any high-tier premium ship.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

20 minutes ago, Siagor said:

Fair point.

 

I don't mind losing money when in meh game on t11, I can make up in the very next battle with any high-tier premium ship.

We clearly need megashits. Where we will really lose money. And hypershits, where we mortgage our house to WG to play them!

[Sunleader]

50 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

I understand that you can make more Credits with T10 ships.

My point is that the Supershits can't be considered "Credit sinks" if it's possible to make a profit with them - however small that profit is.

 

Never Open a Business Mate.....

[Porpoise]

You cannot call them tier XI, because it would make 70% of tech tree lines incomplete. 

[Sunleader]

3 minutes ago, Porpoise said:

You cannot call them tier XI, because it would make 70% of tech tree lines incomplete. 

 

Does it matter ?

It seems WG is setting itself up to give each Tree a T11 anyways.

 

[lup3s]

3 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

You still don't understand. You are sinking a booster that makes 1m credits in similar circumstances to make 30k. You are losing Credits in the form of this single booster.

 

I guess I still don't understand it.

 

You don't lose Credits (i.e. Credits are deducted), you just lose out the chance to get a higher profit (by using the booster on TX); but you are still making a profit, albeit small ... where's the "Credit sink" in that ?

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

11 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

I guess I still don't understand it.

 

You don't lose Credits (i.e. Credits are deducted), you just lose out the chance to get a higher profit (by using the booster on TX); but you are still making a profit, albeit small ... where's the "Credit sink" in that ?

 

 

If you need to use a booster to achieve 30k of profit in one battle while the same booster gives you in another circumstance 1m credits for one battle then that means that you are sinking literally credits the booster would or could have given you.

 

Again. With the same booster you earn 1m credits for one t10 battle with 2.5k base xp (including premium time/ perma bonus). With 1m credits you earned through 1 booster you can play 6 supership battles and still have for the use of one booster more credits gained than you would gain by playing 1 supership battle with that booster for 30k credits.

 

Meaning you can play 7 battles in which you only use a booster in the first battle and still make more profit and play superships more often than if you used the booster on the first supership battle.

 

Meaning you are sinking credits, around 970k per booster you use on 1 supership battle 

 

You might be someone who is easy to part with money if you don't understand. 

[Nibenay78]

Does naming them superships make them become a hoax?

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

If you need to use a booster to achieve 30k of profit in one battle while the same booster gives you in another circumstance 1m credits for one battle then that means that you are sinking literally credits the booster would or could have given you.

 

Again. With the same booster you earn 1m credits for one t10 battle with 2.5k base xp (including premium time/ perma bonus). With 1m credits you earned through 1 booster you can play 6 supership battles and still have for the use of one booster more credits gained than you would gain by playing 1 supership battle with that booster for 30k credits.

 

Meaning you can play 7 battles in which you only use a booster in the first battle and still make more profit and play superships more often than if you used the booster on the first supership battle.

 

Meaning you are sinking credits, around 970k per booster you use on 1 supership battle 

 

You might be someone who is easy to part with money if you don't understand. 

 

Dont Bother.

 

He decided to Die on that Hill. No matter how Wrong he is.

 

He is either really thinking that making 30k Credits with Boosters and Premium in one Game means he is making a Profit regardless of losing 200k Credits over 10 Games while paying Boosters and Real Money.

Or he is completely aware that he is talking bullcrab and is just Trolling.

 

Maybe it just Shows how Smart WG is for doing Superships this way.

If People really think its not a Credit Sink cause they can Pay Real Money instead. Then WG is getting Rich off of People like him.

[Bear__Necessities]

22 hours ago, Sunleader said:

But You did not Play 1 Game.

You, yes YOU set the "limit of green booster only". That was the only game I played with the green booster. I'm sorry you like moving goal posts and can't explain why a sink still gives profits. And in only 1 game did I lose any profit (profit is a net gain, which I got). A game where I got detonated 4 mins in by a CV and would have made probably a loss on a T10 also. 

 

 

[NewHorizons_1]

22 hours ago, lup3s said:

I guess I still don't understand it.

 

You don't lose Credits (i.e. Credits are deducted), you just lose out the chance to get a higher profit (by using the booster on TX); but you are still making a profit, albeit small ... where's the "Credit sink" in that ?

@Zuihou_Kai_Ni's point is a fair one.

T11/superships are still a credit sink if the booster you use gains far less than it would in T9 or T10.

In effect you've sunk 1M - 30k = 970k credits with your T11/Supership (assuming the 1M credit profit for T10 is feasible and similar match performance in both ship tiers).

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 hour ago, Bear__Necessities said:

You, yes YOU set the "limit of green booster only". That was the only game I played with the green booster. I'm sorry you like moving goal posts and can't explain why a sink still gives profits. And in only 1 game did I lose any profit (profit is a net gain, which I got). A game where I got detonated 4 mins in by a CV and would have made probably a loss on a T10 also. 

 

 

Bro if you want to prove that 0<X is a profit then wow, why would you even believe that Sunleader doesn't understand something as simple as that. Do we need to now discuss why water is wet too until we agree that it is?

 

The point is if superships are a credit sink, the point is not if you can make credit "gains" on them.

 

Again. I will not repeat this.

If you have to use a booster to gain such a small amount of credits then you are losing Credits because of the boosters worth.

 

[lup3s]

1 hour ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

Bro if you want to prove that 0<X is a profit then wow, why would you even believe that Sunleader doesn't understand something as simple as that. Do we need to now discuss why water is wet too until we agree that it is?

 

Clearly, yes. 

Positive number = profit. :)

[Saltface]

Are superships (or whatever you want to call them) a credit sink?

 

Well, firstly, a definition of a credit sink is required. If you define a credit sink being a game in a ship that will not produce the same number of credit as playing with a different ship (e.g. TX ship, or any premium for that matter) then you define a credit sink on the basis of opportunity cost. This might not be the best way to do it. Should this be the definition then we should compare everything with playing Missouri. Which, is also a bit of a hassle. How do you compare? On equal damage game? On equal XP games? With credit multipliers or vanilla? Irrespective of that no ship makes what Missouri makes in credits. So, are all ships credit sinks?

 

Maybe, and there is room for argument here, we should just define a Credit Sink as any game that you lose credits if you don't perform really well (vanilla - no credit multipliers). From what I know, you need a really good game to break even on a supership. Anything else, and you lose credits. Actually, superships are expensive to get and expensive to operate. And, WG has been very clear about that. Not to mention that if you use credit multipliers you should include the multiplier's cost in credits in the account.

 

Lets take the case of @Bear__Necessities game. 

Fact No. 1 - it is a high performance game. 140K damage is rather high performance for any DD.

Fact No. 2 - As an FTP you loose a huge amount of credit even with a green booster. So there is no denial that for an FTP it is a credit sink.

Fact No. 3 - The actual cost of battle, if you include the cost of the credit multiplier  approx. 42,000 credits, is 440,000 credits. Therefore, this game had a net loss of 5,000 credits despite the booster and the premium time. (see calculation in spoiler)

 

In my book this is a credit sink. We must see it through the eyes of the average player. They can't have consistent high performance games.They will lose a good chunk of their credits by playing superships.

 

Should it be this way?

Well, to be honest, I think this was a good decision by WG. We would have full supership games if it was cheaper to operate them. You guys, I don't play so much randoms these days, are always complaining about superships in the games and how powerful they are. And I think the prohibitive cost, eventually, controls their numbers in the games.

 

Spoiler

1,250 Doobs cost approx 4.375 Euro where I live - 150 mio credits cost 30.225 Euro - Hence, 1 booster that costs 24 Doobs is equivalent to 42,000 Credits approx.

 

 

[Sunleader]

Le 02/03/2023 à 12:14, Bear__Necessities a dit :

You, yes YOU set the "limit of green booster only". That was the only game I played with the green booster. I'm sorry you like moving goal posts and can't explain why a sink still gives profits. And in only 1 game did I lose any profit (profit is a net gain, which I got). A game where I got detonated 4 mins in by a CV and would have made probably a loss on a T10 also. 

 

 

 

[edit]

My Setup Suggested was this.

 

Le 28/02/2023 à 16:39, Sunleader a dit :

 

If You want we can make an Experiment.

We Play 10 Games each. Solo of Course.

Green Boosters + Permanent Bonus Pack.

You Play a Supership.

I Play a T10.

After that we Check the Detailed Income Result Screens for the Profit.

 

And You dont make any Profit.

You Spend 45 Million on that Ship and now Sink Doubloons to avoid Sinking Credits.

 

WG loves You :)

 

 

 

Le 02/03/2023 à 16:04, lup3s a dit :

 

Clearly, yes. 

Positive number = profit. :)

 

After 17 Games we got

-45.000.000 for the Ship

-4.000.000 Upgrades

 

Average -20.000 per Match

Or Alternatively -1 Blue Booster per Match.

 

There is no Positive Numbers.

 

Profit is Income - Expenses.

 

 

Its True that You can Avoid Sinking Credits by Instead Sinking Real Money in the form of Boosters.

But by that Logic You could also just buy 30.000 Doubloons, Convert them to Credits and Claim You got the T11 for Free. Lol

[SurfaceFish]

For me the green boosters I use are free from wows anniversary booster container droops and super containers drops. I have more than 400 ships in port T5 onwards. 

 

The fact you can make a small profit with average results in superships with commonish booster means they are not an effective credit sinks for those players with premium time. 

 

I also don't think the costs around 50 million credits is too difficult to achieve if you have a T9 premium coal ship. 500k credits per game can be achieved even without credit boosters if you get to farm superships. 

 

Personally I'd double the purchase costs of superships, double the service costs of surface superships and triple the service costs of super CV. 

 

Then with the lose of 300k to 500k credits per game will make superships as a special class to play periodically. 

 

If some whales wish to buy premium containers for blue boosters to fund their superships addictions so be it. Their money their choice. 

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, SurfaceFish said:

For me the green boosters I use are free from wows anniversary booster container droops and super containers drops. I have more than 400 ships in port T5 onwards. 

 

The fact you can make a small profit with average results in superships with commonish booster means they are not an effective credit sinks for those players with premium time. 

 

I also don't think the costs around 50 million credits is too difficult to achieve if you have a T9 premium coal ship. 500k credits per game can be achieved even without credit boosters if you get to farm superships. 

 

Personally I'd double the purchase costs of superships, double the service costs of surface superships and triple the service costs of super CV. 

 

Then with the lose of 300k to 500k credits per game will make superships as a special class to play periodically. 

 

If some whales wish to buy premium containers for blue boosters to fund their superships addictions so be it. Their money their choice. 

 

Thats even worse.

It means You are Spending Weeks in Events and waste the stuff You get from that just to avoid losing a much less valuable ressource.

 

Guys again.

Nobody Claims that You cant avoid Sinking Credits by Sacrificing more Valuable Stuff instead.

You can instead Sink Boosters, Doubloons or Your Time to Replace the Loss of Credits.

 

 

But thats what Zuiho Explained.

 

If You lose 100k Credits and use a Booster that earns 150k Credits extra.

So the Result says 50k Credits Earned.

Then You did not make 50k Credits Profit.

You Simply lost 100k Credits and used an asset worth 150k Credits to balance Your Account.

 

The Asset howevr was already Yours.

Its not gained as a Consequence of the Supership.

So wether You Pay a Booster or Credits makes no Difference.

The Fact is You are Sinking Ressources.

 

 

You can of course Limit the Games You Play the T11 Ship to the Number of Boosters You get from other Events.

But that just means You are Sinking a far more Limited Ressource instead of Credits.

 

 

 

WG doesnt mind that.

You playing T9 Premiums to earn back the loss,

Paying from old Stockpiles,

Using Premiumtime and Boosters

Or even just converting Doubloons instead.

 

All of that is fine with WG.

 

 

 

 

[SurfaceFish]

Who cares, for me credits are easy to come by, with blue boosters i can make 1.2 million or more credits from a T8 premium CV in T10 game. I don't play enough games each year to use up all the free boosters I get (see pictures). So I don't consider boosters whatever the colour are valuable resources. 

 

No one with premium time and can afford multiple superships are going broke playing them. As they have premium ships to farm credits. I can play couple co op games in the Marceau without booster and make enough credits to cover superships service costs for a game.  Which I do each day I play to knock off the 1st two daily missions. 

 

Its made up currency in a video game that's easy to earn, not how to best pay off your mortgage early. No need to dial into the most efficient way to spend boosters. 

 

Its free gifts 🎁 from WG with anniversary and snowflakes events couple times a year. Who cares how other people spend them. They can sell those boosters for credits if they want to. Which I do for all the grey ones and green ship and commander xp boosters as I don't need them. 

[Sunleader]

I am Starting to See why Mobile Games are so Succesful at getting People to Pay Real Money for them....

[Yosha_AtaIante]

9 hours ago, Sunleader said:

I am Starting to See why Mobile Games are so Succesful at getting People to Pay Real Money for them....

The moment people realize that they are getting scammed is the moment they are hooked. People dislike admitting to have fallen for it and would rather create lies they can believe for themselves and continue getting scammed before just admitting themselves being wrong especially when challenged online.

 

 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

2 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

The moment people realize that they are getting scammed is the moment they are hooked. People dislike admitting to have fallen for it and would rather create lies they can believe for themselves and continue getting scammed before just admitting themselves being wrong especially when challenged online.

Nah, anyone who realizes that he got scammed, quits.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails

[SurfaceFish]

Scammed means you got nothing or something less value than what was advertised. Both are illegal in most countries.

 

Now if the buyer feels scammed with buyer’s remorse, that’s different. 
 

 

[SurfaceFish]

12 hours ago, Sunleader said:

I am Starting to See why Mobile Games are so Succesful at getting People to Pay Real Money for them....

Good for those companies, if the customers are adults, it’s their choice how they spend their money.

 

You see people playing early access and dockyard ships on 1st day of release in this game. If those people have that much spare money to throw into a video game, good for them. They are obviously have better paying careers than me.

[Bear__Necessities]

Le 02/03/2023 à 16:39, Sunleader a dit :

[edit]

If accusing people of lying when they have not is the line of attack. Then you've lost the argument anyway.  

[Sunleader]

Le 05/03/2023 à 12:52, Bear__Necessities a dit :

If accusing people of lying when they have not is the line of attack. Then you've lost the argument anyway.  

 

[edit]

 

As for the Argument.

Pls Show to me where I said You cannot Possibly make a Profit with Superships.

Pls Show to me where I Challenged You to Play a Single Game with Green Boosters and make a Profit.

 

You Accused me of Changing the Goalpost Based on this.

But I never made either of these Claims.

 

My Claim on Superships being Credit Sinks was that they Cost around 50 Million to Buy and have such high Maintenance Cost that on Average You will make a Loss Playing them.

Using a Blue Booster to Outbalance that Loss doesnt Change its a Loss. You are Still Paying more for it than You gain. You are just Changing the Currency You are Paying in.

 

Then:

I Challenged You to Play 10 Games Solo in a Superships vs me 10 Games Solo in a T10. Both With Green Boosters. And afterwardswe Check what we Profits we made.

With me Predicting You to likely make a loss. Maybe Break Even and in best Case Scenario make a very Small Profit.

 

 

None of these Results Change the Fact Superships are a Credit Sink. Because You will never get out the Credits and Ressources You Sink into them.

Because You still Paid 45 Million for that Supership. You also Paid the Upgrades which is another 4 Million. And despite Playing with Blue Boosters. You likely have not even made 2 Million Credits in over 20 Games. But for these not even 2 Million Credits You Earned. You Spend Boosters that would have been worth 20 Million if You had used them on other Ships. So You Sunk enormous Ressources into Playing the Supership.

The Fact is. By getting that Supership. Your Account Balance went Down by over 40 Million Credits and a Good Number of Rare Boosters. All during Paid Premium Time.

 

 

 

And You know Exactly that You dont even have an Argument against this.

That is why You are Trying so Incredible Hard to Somehow Argue on a Technically of having Succeeded in making Profit in a Single Match in a Single Ressource Ignoring the other Cost You Incurred.

Claiming that this would be what I asked despite You knowing exactly that its not.

Then trying to muddy the waters with Accusations of Shifting the Goalpost even tough I explicitly Quoted You my Challenge again

 

[edit]

I am Aware You will never Admit You are Wrong. No matter how Obvious and Proven it is.

So Well. Have Fun making "Profits" with Your Superships while Losing 20 Times these Profits in Cost You Ignore ;)

 

 

Unfortunately You just end up Proving more and more that WG is Actually Correct in how they Treat this Playerbase.