Why is Ranked Battles such a total sht-show?

[CTO_KPAKEHOB]

On 2/23/2023 at 6:27 PM, Seraphice said:

Additionally in randoms, having 5-6 battleships out of twelve is also about 50% of the team, but I have yet to hear anyone say that we need less battleships in random battles.

What we need is less game mechanics that help poor players at the expense of good ones. 

[Peter_Abel]

Vor 14 Minuten, CTO_KPAKEHOB sagte:

Instead

+1 Krake
sometimes is a bit difficult to see the sky which completely covered by planes

[Fatal_Ramses]

Ranked battles, which team can lick the most windows.

This is unreal.

*Edit

This is just horrible.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

13 hours ago, Fatal_Ramses said:

This is just horrible.

I've lost two stars in silver by now. Once I got unlucky with three(!) unchecked ships sniping me from across the map (while I did a stupid, I tried to get into the cap before pulling the smoke). The other was being on the flank with the rear guard Asashio. You can't carry these people, they're even worse than AFKers - because AFKers don't smoke up try to torp the cruiser charging him, they at least offer reliable spotting untill they die.

 

[Seraphice]

On 2/25/2023 at 4:17 PM, CTO_KPAKEHOB said:

Well maybe there's time to introduce some skill based entry criteria for Ranked Battles?

I mean, like having a 50% or more win rate for the ship a player wants to play in?

To this end, I would like to ask you something?

How would you feel if you are playing a game you love, and the game tells you:
"Sorry, you can't play this part of the game because you aren't good enough, so you can't earn this in-game currency either"
So no, there are absolutely no plans for a skill based entry.

 

On 2/25/2023 at 4:48 PM, NewHorizons_1 said:

That's kinda selective deafness there. It is a recurring theme on the forum.

It is the first time I see this on the forum here in well over a year. Besides, we have a lot of feedback platforms that we look at, besides the forum.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[MrWastee]

24 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

[...]
"Sorry, you can't play this part of the game because you aren't good enough, so you can't earn this in-game currency either"
[..]

 

no talk about mm now, but..... erm......... this is exactly how progession works in most games? like in, "achieve X b4 >NEXT LEVEL<"?!... inb4 missions/xp gain=progression. they're not. they're exactly that substitue such games need to emulate something like real progression.

 

in kinda no games ever progression was granted for free. if u miss on the objective u gotta try again. that's common. not to get the progression anyway after X tries. u gotta do it or won't progress ^^.... and in some even, if one not backs up/secure the steps, one can fall back.

 

in here it's a wheelchair model for f2p to get 'n keep the crowd. while wows is forcely driven into that direction from the very start, which got multiplied big time since release (*also why we not have any tutorial. doesn't pay out 'n in doubt drive people away coz they need to reach >inmatch< marks)

 

in wows u don't need to achieve anything. most things are really "free or bucks", even progression. and this is also the reason why ranked is how it is, why randoms are the same way and why nothing will change in that regard.

hence: any thread ever on it kinda pointless.

 

as being said: idc about the mm, but context is king i guess

[lup3s]

26 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

How would you feel if you are playing a game you love, and the game tells you:
"Sorry, you can't play this part of the game because you aren't good enough, so you can't earn this in-game currency either"

 

I would try to get better to get access to this part of the game ?

It's part of the challenge of a game and part of the fun of a game, to get better at it ...

In fact, if I were to play a Ranked mode in any game that's not a 1v1, I would try to make sure I'm good enough to play so I'm not too much of a burden on my teammates, and may sometimes even carry a game to victory.

 

But I guess this doesn't fit in nowadays theme of "get as much as possible for as least [effort] as possible".

That's why you have so many bad players who don't want to improve (why should they ?) and just leech their way to victory.

[SurfaceFish]

1 hour ago, lup3s said:

I would try to get better to get access to this part of the game ?

This is a free to play game. Players did not invest any money into this, so most will uninstall if WG put up a skill wall in front of them. Open the game up makes new players wants to spend money. You're asking WG to throw away profits in order to increase the quality of MM!?

 

Plus there is no story line to handhold players as the game feed them new skills for most the stay. 

 

I don't think there are enough 50%+WR players online at the same time to populate many Ranked team. 

[ItsEyeJasper]

The Solution for Ranked Games  does not exist  in any format that would suit us all. I for one would rather have a Game that does not require you just to win in order to progress but requires you to achieve a certain threshold. For instance we could  use XP or PR. A player winning a game while achieving 200 Base xp should not be allowed to be carried to the next league. Obviously it is a known fact that everyone has a bad game here and there. Therefore in a game such as this, your average performance over the season gets considered that will save your place but not advance you. If you meet the criteria by a high enough margin you can then advance, if you don't sorry you stay put.  Same goes for you losing. If you lose but achieve  the minimum required you then save your star. Its Not just  about being the best player on your team its about performing your best. I have lost a star by 1 single xp before and this sucks because we we both over 1.2k xp and the rest of our team were in the 200s.  We both put a deserving effort in.

 

Yes this system has its flaws but hopefully it encourages players to contribute to the game and does not punish those who try but are let down by thier teams.

 

  One of the issues with an only  Skill based MM is that eventually you have 2 teams of the same skilled players who end up with a 50/50 chance of winning. This way the progression stagnates and people lose interest this is why i  value a performance aspect to be included. Performance aspects reward players for contributing not just showing up.

[Hugh_Ruka]

2 hours ago, Seraphice said:

How would you feel if you are playing a game you love, and the game tells you:
"Sorry, you can't play this part of the game because you aren't good enough, so you can't earn this in-game currency either"
So no, there are absolutely no plans for a skill based entry.

 

But this is already happening throughout the game !!! f.e. I am excluded from basically all events as I cannot complete them playing only a single class (DDs in my case) !!! or supership missions, or RB etc ... there are such exclusion all over the place ...

[S_h_i_v_a]

Alle 23/2/2023 alle 17:32, SeaWolf7 ha scritto:

I would like to know who came up with the idea of tier VI for ranked.

Literally the most panful tier you could have chosen. As a cruiser main its enough to want you to give up...AGAIN!!

At Christmas we had Ranked at Tier V.

Masochistic, but i needed the steel.

[S_h_i_v_a]

Problem is not only "playing bad", but even playing wrong ships. 

 

You may not agree on what said in this video, but....  just watch him explain Dallas and PepsiCola.

 

 

 

 

[Seraphice]

28 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

But this is already happening throughout the game !!! f.e. I am excluded from basically all events as I cannot complete them playing only a single class (DDs in my case) !!! or supership missions, or RB etc ... there are such exclusion all over the place ... 

This is not the same however - these are locked behind progression - it is still possible to participate in all of these events. Playing DDs only is a choice - not being locked out of by the game.
The same goes for superships or Research Bureau, which just takes a bit of time to unlock, as is the main premise of the game - unlocking new ships.
Restricting ranked to only 50%+ winrate is absolutely not the same.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[DFens_666]

3 hours ago, Seraphice said:

"Sorry, you can't play this part of the game because you aren't good enough, so you can't earn this in-game currency either"

 

CBs? I mean, if you put 7 noobs together they cant spam their way into Hurricane (they probably wont even advance past whatever the first league is called). So there is already a part of the game which is locked behind skill.

Granted, the problem is the actual lack of good players. Even if you would put artificial barriers like WR for each league, gold league would most likely still be a shitshow or there would be noone left to play it. Lets face it, the difference between a 50% player and a 60% player is huge.

 

I personally think Bronze and Silver are not that bad. Yes, for the avg player they will still struggle. But all in all you have mostly not good players, with only a few good players here and there. In essence, these games are not really unbalanced if you are a good player yourself. The problem i saw immediately when i played a few games gold last season: The teams are horrendously unbalanced. One team is full of <50% players, the other can be full of >50% and Unicums. These games also happens sometimes in silver and even less often in bronze. Simply because there are more bad and less good players. If a lot of bad and good players are in one league, then its gonne be bad (i think).

In order for it to work out, you would need to put all players below 50-52% in bronze, then the range from 50-60% in silver and >60% in gold... which wont work. Bronze is filled, silver is already rather empty and gold would be almost no matches ever.

[SeaWolf7]

2 hours ago, S_h_i_v_a said:

Problem is not only "playing bad", but even playing wrong ships. 

 

You may not agree on what said in this video, but....  just watch him explain Dallas and PepsiCola.

 

 

 

Found the Leander worked best for me. Ranked out as soon as i changed.

[Hugh_Ruka]

16 hours ago, Seraphice said:

This is not the same however - these are locked behind progression - it is still possible to participate in all of these events. Playing DDs only is a choice - not being locked out of by the game.
The same goes for superships or Research Bureau, which just takes a bit of time to unlock, as is the main premise of the game - unlocking new ships.
Restricting ranked to only 50%+ winrate is absolutely not the same.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

Winrate is progression as well ... same like I won't ever use a CV, some people will never reach 50% WR ... Or what about the special Dockyard missions where you have things like 200k damage or such ? You know, the one special mission for each stage ... that is progression as well by your own words ?

[Kiagy]

20 hours ago, Seraphice said:

To this end, I would like to ask you something?

How would you feel if you are playing a game you love, and the game tells you:
"Sorry, you can't play this part of the game because you aren't good enough, so you can't earn this in-game currency either"
So no, there are absolutely no plans for a skill based entry.

 

It is the first time I see this on the forum here in well over a year. Besides, we have a lot of feedback platforms that we look at, besides the forum.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

Maybe 2 ranked seasons running concurrent is the solution...

 

6 v 6:  which we currently have, this gives poor player the chance  to improve their skills in small teams, currently 6 v 6 ranked is horrific, afk's, skill gap MM and players that play for themselves and not the team (often i see players totally outclassed by their counterparts), eg; recent game: one CV 64% wr the other team CV 46% WR, this to me is totally wrong, the result is determined before the game starts imo, i could go on and on about the state of the current ranked MM

 

1 v 1:  This mode imo rewards good play (as ranked should be), their should be no qualification to enter as this would be unfair as you stated, everyone has a right to take part in all events regardless of skill, i 100% agree

20 hours ago, Seraphice said:

How would you feel if you are playing a game you love, and the game tells you:
"Sorry, you can't play this part of the game because you aren't good enough, so you can't earn this in-game currency either"
So no, there are absolutely no plans for a skill based entry.

In 1 v 1 only the best will reach Gold League, no player will be carried, afk's will not benefit, sure the skill gap between players may be huge in some games, but its gives players incentive to improve their skills, 6 v 6 is currently a lottery, 1v 1 would be based on skill, you either play well or lose. hopefully the encouragement to improve ones game will benefit Random Matches which is currently a monstrosity

[CTO_KPAKEHOB]

22 hours ago, Seraphice said:

How would you feel if you are playing a game you love, and the game tells you:
"Sorry, you can't play this part of the game because you aren't good enough, so you can't earn this in-game currency either"

I would feel that I must work on improving my skill and eventually play better if I want to be up there with the best. This would be a challenge for me, and a long-lasting goal in the game. Like earning 100 Krakens used to be :)

For now, the only challenge of this sort in WoWS is Clan Battles — but investing that much time into the game in its current state does not look like a sensible plan to me.  

 

22 hours ago, Seraphice said:

So no, there are absolutely no plans for a skill based entry.

Well what is the purpose of the Ranked Battles in the overall gameplay taxonomy then? It does not look like a competitive game type to me because there is no competition per se. 

Without skill-based entry and true skill-based progression — like you know, when a player earns the least XP in a winning battle and the amount of XP they earn is less than N (e.g. 300 XP), this player does NOT get a star — it's just random battles where you don't get uptiered and there are less players on the teams :(

[DFens_666]

54 minutes ago, CTO_KPAKEHOB said:

Well what is the purpose of the Ranked Battles in the overall gameplay taxonomy then? It does not look like a competitive game type to me because there is no competition per se. 

 

I think WG answered that when they reworked ranked to what it is now. And i gotta be honest, its much better than before. In the past, you had people playing 1000+ games per season to get the steel. Now these people are done in a dozen wins or so which might take them 30-40 games at worst. If they want to suicide to gold let - they can do that aswell reasonably fast. You can avoid these players by not going gold either, so its fine with me. Old ranked was horrible and toxic.

[Hyborian_Punk]

well my opinion is that it is really hard to rank out while there is a CV in play, I don't have enough smokescreens to hide while friendly CVs only using their fighters to spot not to cover ya. Also lot of new players with less than 500 battles with premium ships trying ranked. There are hours when I cannot even win one single battle let alone earning stars. Almost Nobody is reading the map or communicating.

 

So right now Ranked is an awful experience. not recommending it to average potatoes like me.

[SurfaceFish]

7 minutes ago, Hyborian_Punk said:

well my opinion is that it is really hard to rank out while there is a CV in play,

Well if you can't beat them, join them. 

 

Play CV in Ranked if you want to maximise rewards over games played?

[DFens_666]

48 minutes ago, Hyborian_Punk said:

well my opinion is that it is really hard to rank out while there is a CV in play, I don't have enough smokescreens to hide while friendly CVs only using their fighters to spot not to cover ya. Also lot of new players with less than 500 battles with premium ships trying ranked. There are hours when I cannot even win one single battle let alone earning stars. Almost Nobody is reading the map or communicating. 

 

So right now Ranked is an awful experience. not recommending it to average potatoes like me.

 

54% isnt even bad, compared to most others.

If you want some advice:

- I think switching ships and classes all the time makes it harder, especially the less skill you have. Gives inconsistent results.

- Try looking for ships with which you can perform well. You are playing Akizuki a lot on T8, but results are not good. I think you also die too often with it. Overall your survivability is a bit too low but i think especially in DDs. If you are dead, you cant influence the game anymore. Always smoking up against a CV is often not necessary. It always depends if you can get shot at by other enemies. Otherwise dodging the CV should be possible (most of them suck anyway and will leave you alone if they dont hit).

- Switching to another class can make sense at times. F.e. if you are playing DD and your BBs are playing really bad, picking BB instead could help you get wins. Vice versa for playing BB if your DDs just seem to die, then pick DD yourself.
- Try working on getting more kills. Dead ships cant do anything anymore.

- Stay away from ships that are farming damage. Early game impact is the most crucial thing to have.

[TonyStarkshoudnthavedied]

23 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

But this is already happening throughout the game !!! f.e. I am excluded from basically all events as I cannot complete them playing only a single class (DDs in my case) !!! or supership missions, or RB etc ... there are such exclusion all over the place ...

That is very obviously different, and you know it. It is not even remotely similar.

 

[Hugh_Ruka]

24 minutes ago, TonyStarkshoudnthavedied said:

That is very obviously different, and you know it. It is not even remotely similar.

 

Where is the difference ? It's just another type of grind. Also you are aware there are already skill based missions of the type "In 1 battle ..." those are nothing less than skill bars ... so why stop there ?

[CTO_KPAKEHOB]

7 hours ago, Kiagy said:

Maybe 2 ranked seasons running concurrent is the solution...

I would say this sounds like an overkill. WG could just convert qualifying battles to the 1 vs 1 mode, and I think that alone would prevent most players with not enough skill from entering the next league. There will be NO team to leech on, you know.