WG needs to change plane spotting

[lup3s]

5 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

Why do you think WG if buffing spotting damage and reducing active damage. Which will buff xp for sub and CV the most, because there are so many bad players playing those two classes.

 

That, and probably also because of all those hybrids being released.

 

Why play a normal BB if you can get more XP playing a hybrid BB ? 

 

Feels like WG trying to force us to play CVs / Subs / hybrids, while trying to discourage us from playing DDs, CL/CAs, "normal" BBs ... 

[SurfaceFish]

2 minutes ago, lup3s said:

Why play a normal BB if you can get more XP playing a hybrid BB ? 

I rather play a real BB that can tank and move into a position to smack AP salvo into boardside ships instead hiding behind an island all game and play a poor CV every 2 to 3 mins. 

 

But WG is also reducing XP for tanking incoming fire. God only knows what they are smoking in their meetings. 

[lup3s]

16 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

I rather play a real BB that can tank and move into a position to smack AP salvo into boardside ships instead hiding behind an island all game and play a poor CV every 2 to 3 mins

 

Yes, so would I, but as some special forum member keeps repeating, we are just a small part of the community and not representative of the playerbase at large.

 

The "silent majority" wants this, so they'll get it.

[arttuperkunas]

2 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

 

CV had all the info that a DD was going for him. You think he spotted him? Let alone attacked him?

 

Just to show he didnt attack him. My BB or CA hit him once while i fought him.

Was the CV in question @DEEP_SHARKS? Because that match looks awfully familiar.

 

I literally remember him complaining about how a DD essentially teleported next to him from the other side of the map and killed him. The DD in question was a Gaede, and that's the location he was killed as far as I remember.

[flip_66]

Forget it. WG will never nerf their beloved CVs.

[JohnMac79]

3 hours ago, Farheim said:

This game isn't about equality, sunshine.

Sunshine? So at least you admit CV are unbalanced, its progress of a kind. CV plane spotting in RTS was also a problem, just because its been around a long time doesnt mean its fine...

[DFens_666]

3 hours ago, Farheim said:

Conisdering that it's a tier 6 game I'm willing to assume this CV was either new to the game or the class. And that's fine.

 

 

Random / Ranked + CVs Random / Ranked

 

Surely 56% and being completely oblivious to whats happening... thats CVs for you. Every other class he is around 50% ofc.

[159Hunter]

4 hours ago, lup3s said:

 

Yes, so would I, but as some special forum member keeps repeating, we are just a small part of the community and not representative of the playerbase at large.

 

The "silent majority" wants this, so they'll get it.

One thing I don't understand, but maybe you can explain me the deal about this "silent majority".

 

We only have data from the Discord and Forum polls, and they are all vocally against CVs and Subs.

Okay, they might not be a valid representation of the entire population, but it is a real data set none the less.

On what data sets do the believers of the silent majority base their claims? Cause so far I've not seen a single data set confirm their hypothesis.

All they have is the "belief" that we are all wrong and that they are right.

[TheNubination]

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

 

Random / Ranked + CVs Random / Ranked

 

Surely 56% and being completely oblivious to whats happening... thats CVs for you. Every other class he is around 50% ofc.

Considering that puts him in top 1-2% of players in CVs in the world and that higher level CV play requires a good understanding of what is happening on the map the actual answer is the opposite. At that level you get your WR up by forcing players into broadsides they don't want to take or baiting them into friendly torps and by spotting where you need to spot rather than just pure damage dealing. 

 

The guy probably has a superior sense of whats happening to YOU but he's just bad at the game otherwise, yolo's around too much or perhaps plays the game expecting others to do it the way he would in other classes, which leads to unnecessary deaths when they don't.

[lup3s]

1 hour ago, 159Hunter said:

One thing I don't understand, but maybe you can explain me the deal about this "silent majority".

 

We only have data from the Discord and Forum polls, and they are all vocally against CVs and Subs.

Okay, they might not be a valid representation of the entire population, but it is a real data set none the less.

On what data sets do the believers of the silent majority base their claims? Cause so far I've not seen a single data set confirm their hypothesis.

All they have is the "belief" that we are all wrong and that they are right.

 

Easy;

We are vocal against Subs but we are also the "0.1%";  thus it's easy to state that all others enjoy Submarines as they were such a "much requested feature".

We don't hear those 99.9%, hence the "silent majority".

 

I know it's totally idiotic to reason like this but it fits the picture WG wants, so it be like that. 

[DFens_666]

43 minutes ago, TheNubination said:

The guy probably has a superior sense of whats happening to YOU

 

 

hmm yeah, i should definetely look into map awareness, maybe i could increase my ranked WR a bit

[159Hunter]

44 minutes ago, TheNubination said:

Considering that puts him in top 1-2% of players in CVs in the world

So, once again, demonstrate where you get these numbers.

Cause a rough check I did on wows numbers for the top 2% CV players by WR per CV puts me in the high 60% low 70% WR.  This guy isn't even close to that.

[Andrewbassg]

7 hours ago, SurfaceFish said:

God only knows what they are smoking in their meetings

Aactually......there is some footage circulating on reddit from a sekrit Weegee meeting...

 

 

The scary part is it seems very........ real

 

 

 

 

[TheNubination]

49 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

 

hmm yeah, i should definetely look into map awareness, maybe i could increase my ranked WR a bit

Well [edited]it, haha you're probably better than him. I took a chance that you were somewhere less skilled than you are. But point stands still.  He's good at CVs because they are a force multiplier that requires situational awareness, even though he may be bad at the game mechanically. We dont know why he has shitty WRs with other classes, but that he does makes a case for it even more. 

[DFens_666]

6 minutes ago, TheNubination said:

Well [edited]it, haha you're probably better than him. I took a chance that you were somewhere less skilled than you are. But point stands still.  He's good at CVs because they are a force multiplier that requires situational awareness, even though he may be bad at the game mechanically. We dont know why he has shitty WRs with other classes, but that he does makes a case for it even more. 

 

well tbh i was a bit shocked to see the blue WR myself on that guy... i was expecting like 45% or something.

On the other hand, ive seen unicums die first too so.. (i mean, it happens to everyone).

 

Alltho i would say, that him having 50% in other classes and 56% in CVs must be because of situational awareness. He must be getting into trouble, while in a CV he usually does not (naturally), and then he dies early so he cant influence the game anymore.

[TheNubination]

6 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

well tbh i was a bit shocked to see the blue WR myself on that guy... i was expecting like 45% or something.

On the other hand, ive seen unicums die first too so.. (i mean, it happens to everyone).

 

Alltho i would say, that him having 50% in other classes and 56% in CVs must be because of situational awareness. He must be getting into trouble, while in a CV he usually does not (naturally), and then he dies early so he cant influence the game anymore.

 

 

Now Im just talking from personal experience but I will ping / tell people to do something or someone else does it and I think we've agreed upon it, so I commit to it and when these people turn tail at the first sign of trouble so they can farm more I just don't care and yolo in and die alone.  in a CV you don't have to follow a plan made by a bunch of randoms but you can support the developing situations as they come up and even force certain engagements which is kinda relaxing for me at least. There's also the aspect of mechanical skill as mentioned, which you need more off in say especially destroyers and less of in CVs that tips the scale to my argument.  But your view has some merit too.  He's 57.3 at randoms, it's pretty good. I haven't checked his damage stats. If they are abnormally high then you might be right, if they are average or even a bit lower then that's even more a case of him having simply a superior sense of the game since his impact then would be through the team not in addition to the team.

[Mrs_Ragdoll]

On 2/19/2023 at 4:46 PM, Mr_Damager said:

Plane spotting should be removed completely!

The CVs and Hybrids should spot only for themselves (the spotted are still displayed on the minimap). They would still be able to do damage and enjoy the game.

 

Exactly this.

 

I've read a year ago (or maybe longer) that WG was looking into this, maybe even testing...?! but I've never heard anything about it anymore, did they drop this spotting rework?

[Animalul2012]

WG also needs to cut BB privileges and them being made for mentally challenged people!! 

[Nov_A]

31 minutes ago, Mrs_Ragdoll said:

 

Exactly this.

 

I've read a year ago (or maybe longer) that WG was looking into this, maybe even testing...?! but I've never heard anything about it anymore, did they drop this spotting rework?

Just ping Seraphice, he will tell you that they are working on it, something, whatever.

[159Hunter]

14 hours ago, TheNubination said:

This is of known players, not including the tens of thousands of accounts that are often worse and have hidden stats:

https://wows-numbers.com/ranking/?p=17

https://wows-numbers.com/ranking/?p=34

That's the WR of a player for ALL his classes.

That has nothing to do with their WR in CVs, some of them don't even PLAY CVs:

- look fe at current #1633 (https://wows-numbers.com/player/589352235,Gremuuu/) -> NO CV games played

- or look at current (also) #1633 (https://wows-numbers.com/player/587857576,AOUA_GLOUGLOU/) -> ONE CV game played

- or #1415 (https://wows-numbers.com/player/572795338,dato7kato777/) -> NO CV games played

 

Conclusion: your numbers are not what you claim they are. If you want to look at CV winrates on WoWs numbers you look at the individual ships:

For Midway that would be: 

- https://wows-numbers.com/ship/4179605488,Midway/?order=win_rate__desc#leaderboard

- a total of a little over 9000 players -> 2% of that is around 180

- so we're looking in this range:

 

Second example: Implacable:

- https://wows-numbers.com/ship/4181702608,Implacable/?order=win_rate__desc&p=1

- about 13500 players -> 2% of that is around 270

- which looks like:

 

If you want lower 70%: go look up Shokaku for example.

 

So no, your players' high 50 % numbers are not correct because you used the wrong data set.

 

Quote

61-63% = 1-2% of known accounts. Average out the number of players you usually see with hidden accounts that's to me about 20-30% of players, almost always of worse quality and that pulls this guy into the top 1-2% of the world.  

Again, pulling numbers out of your head I see.

So now we're starting your classical ad

Quote

But again, like here, and like there you miss the point.

You seem to miss the point, again. If you user numbers: be able to back them up.

You can't, so your whole argument is rendered invalid.

Quote

So you're probably one of those that likes to argue and not actually learn or develop any understanding of anything, right? :D Just like Elazer.

Something with ... kettle ... black ... English proverb?

[TheNubination]

Why would their winrate for carriers matter? We're talking about how good they are at beating the game overall, not about how good they are among CV players.  The whole point is that he is beating the game in CVs wheras he's not in some other class and the question is in regards to why.  Also for someone who is so interested in exact numbers, get to work compiling all the CVs buddy. Don't you dare make educated assumptions based on samples. (No, I dont actually care)
 


Also I make educated guess, if you can't deal with anything that has unknowns and attack someone for attempting to do so then thats your problem. If you think it's an other number than 20-30% then feel free to share that. I have no strict idea but it's my impression over thousands of games and what Ive read in general. None of this is the own you think it is.

And you still haven't replied to the other thread, why is that? 

[159Hunter]

21 hours ago, TheNubination said:

Considering that puts him in top 1-2% of players in CVs in the world and that higher level CV play requires a good understanding of what is happening on the map the actual answer is the opposite.

 

1 hour ago, TheNubination said:

Why would their winrate for carriers matter?

On one and the same page. But now ofc it doesn't matter because, once again, your point was proven moot.

 

1 hour ago, TheNubination said:

We're talking about how good they are at beating the game overall, not about how good they are among CV players. 

You made such a false claim claim, I showed you your claim was wrong. And now you never said anything about how of a CV player he was?

 

1 hour ago, TheNubination said:

 Also for someone who is so interested in exact numbers, get to work compiling all the CVs buddy. Don't you dare make educated assumptions based on samples. (No, I dont actually care)

At least I make educational assumptions.

You just release brainfarts.

 

1 hour ago, TheNubination said:

Also I make educated guess, if you can't deal with anything that has unknowns and attack someone for attempting to do so then thats your problem.

Nope, you have no data whatsoever on which you base your brainfarts. But the fact that you can't see that just shows we should actually forgive you.

For you don't know any better. Poor sod.

 

[TheNubination]

 

10 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

 

On one and the same page. But now ofc it doesn't matter because, once again, your point was proven moot.

 

You made such a false claim claim, I showed you your claim was wrong. And now you never said anything about how of a CV player he was?

 

At least I make educational assumptions.

You just release brainfarts.

 

Nope, you have no data whatsoever on which you base your brainfarts. But the fact that you can't see that just shows we should actually forgive you.

For you don't know any better. Poor sod.

 

 

 

He is "top 1-2% of players in CVs". Maybe I should've said when he's in a CV. Because what we're comparing here is why he's bad at everything else, so his overall performance in games vs other players is what's interesting?  I didn't write "he's top 1-2% of CV players. Now that we've cleared this up, does my argument make more sense to you or not?  More improtantly, do you feel that being in the top 5% or even top 10% completely disregarding hidden stats and assuming we're talking about just CVs doesn't make him among the best players?  Does any of this, just like in the other thread invalidate the argument? You're not even arguing the point, thats the sad point. You're just arguing details that are barely relevant.   


Do I need data to make an assumption on how many people are missing? Do you think im very far off? Or are you again just not capable of dealing with unknowns? I've asked you this three times and it's the last reply you'll get from me unless you answer it. Are you just going to ignore unknowns as you did in the other thread and assume they don't exist or factor in at all or what? 

[DFens_666]

43 minutes ago, TheNubination said:

He is "top 1-2% of players in CVs". Maybe I should've said when he's in a CV. Because what we're comparing here is why he's bad at everything else, so his overall performance in games vs other players is what's interesting?  I didn't write "he's top 1-2% of CV players. Now that we've cleared this up, does my argument make more sense to you or not?  More improtantly, do you feel that being in the top 5% or even top 10% completely disregarding hidden stats and assuming we're talking about just CVs doesn't make him among the best players?  Does any of this, just like in the other thread invalidate the argument? You're not even arguing the point, thats the sad point. You're just arguing details that are barely relevant.   

 

Every class is inherently different from one another. But especially CVs are completely different from all the other classes. Atleast BBs/DDs/Cruisers somehow put themselves into danger during a match, while the CV hull is not.

So if i take myself as an example (gonna go with ranked WR), im top 1% of the playerbase. But with CVs, im not. I mean, i could play more CVs and get better at them, but i dont want to. It gets boring to me. I rather play them sometimes in OPs, which is more fun.

Someone can be good in CVs, while still be average in the other classes. I think once you go into Unicum range, this changes, as at that point, the understanding of the game and its mechanics are so far ahead, that they will deliver in basically any ship or class. Alltho i can see someone being a Unicum CV while not being a Unicum Surface ship player. They are just so different. You dont need to have the same situational awareness as f.e. in a DD or Cruiser.

[SurfaceFish]

12 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Alltho i can see someone being a Unicum CV while not being a Unicum Surface ship player. They are just so different.

IMO CV and DD skills are very similar, play mechanics aside. They both don't risk their health to spot or do damage, at least a good DD player don't. From been aware the red ships location and its own position, while taking gun fights only if it has the advantages. 

 

Both class needs to be good at reading the flow of the battle to have a good win rate. The CV have bigger impact with high-speed planes. 

 

Both classes can be effective without support from teammates unlike cruisers and battleships.