WG needs to change plane spotting

[SnuSnu_RIP]

2 hours ago, arttuperkunas said:

My counterpoint - when my cv is a 42% mouthbreather and the enemy cv is competent, what then? Afaic cvs are not some balancing factor in bad matches, quite the opposite. No single ship/player should have that much game influence.

That's what I'm saying since a long time. If a BB player is bad, you can compensate that somehow. But a bad CV player is mostly the death sentence to the team, because you can't compensate him. It's really bad game design that 1 player has so much influence to the game. 

[JohnMac79]

2 hours ago, Farheim said:

CV spots everyone within air concealment range, dd spots everyone within sea concealment range. Your point?..

DDs put themselves at risk while spotting and have to be on the front line, which simply doesnt apply to CV. Your comment is ridiculous.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

10 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

DDs put themselves at risk while spotting and have to be on the front line, which simply doesnt apply to CV. Your comment is ridiculous.

Imagine me of all people saying this.

Why do you get baited? This discussion has been had so often why even continue it? It's not like he dictates the state of CVs.

[WarburtonLee]

53 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

Imagine me of all people saying this.

Why do you get baited? This discussion has been had so often why even continue it? It's not like he dictates the state of CVs.

WG probably for sure want it to stop, i for my part would like to see 20 new threads every day until something is done

[WingedHussar_Adler]

8 hours ago, arttuperkunas said:

As per title.

 

As an enjoyer of stealth based DDs like the Shima line, playing right now is not fun, with usually one or even two CVs (though not at top tier) and at least one and sometimes several pseudo CVs (hybrids) in every match.

 

I don't think the damage doing characteristics of hybrid CVs are unbalanced. I don't necessarily even think they're unbalanced at all, they're just miserable to play against due to constant plane spotting, especially together with a real CV, if you are in any ship that relies on stealth (non lighthouse cruisers, most DDs).

 

It is also one of the main reasons why I can't make myself queue up anymore, particularly in randoms.

 

In any case, plane spotting needed to change even without the hybrids around, except for Kearsarge which you didn't really see that often. But now plane spotting really needs to change, or the game isn't much fun for those of us who don't particularly enjoy the World of Warplanes aspects of this game.

Wg does not need to do nothing. 

 

[SeaWolf7]

2 hours ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

 

We already proposed the "spot only on the minimap" idea quite a while ago, but this was apparently not to WG balans department liking, so they canned it and "look for another solution"

Yeah the heading of this post made me think of exactly that.

The proposal was actually pretty sound imo. shame it was not implemented in some way shape or form. 

[Lootboxer]

Time to realise finally that WG doesn't care.

All they care is to see you to rushing to premium shop to exchange your money for in game resources that will allow you to grind faster new shiny toys with a brand new dumb gimmics that incidentally at the same time are making old toys redundant gently pushing you this way in the right direction.

Didn't you get the memo?

Concealment is so passée in 2023.

Gun fight as well are a thing of a past.

All you need nowadays is range with remote controlled weaponry like aircraft or if you insist on playing closer then a cloaking device ability to submerge if something goes bad with homing charges so you don't need to bother with aiming.

[DiceTea]

6 hours ago, Mr_Damager said:

That's just bad game design then.

No, that is just the normal, average WoWs player. This game is very simple compared to other games. SC2, LOL. Here: Press 5 buttons, watch a map. Even aim has assistance. No control groups, no high apm, no hotkey-screen change every 2 seconds. No counter unit building, no ability to quickly play the map and counter strategies (you have the ship you picked, and you need 5 mins to get to the other side. Very limited and low paced choices). No high skill requirement and skill expression. It is so slow. And still people die in 3 minutes. The design of DDs is fine. People just do not think.

[Farheim]

8 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

DDs put themselves at risk while spotting and have to be on the front line, which simply doesnt apply to CV. 

Aaaaaand?

[Farheim]

8 hours ago, SnuSnu_RIP said:

That's what I'm saying since a long time. If a BB player is bad, you can compensate that somehow. But a bad CV player is mostly the death sentence to the team, because you can't compensate him. It's really bad game design that 1 player has so much influence to the game. 

Dude, I can tell you from experience that even in ranked that's not quite the case. Trust me I have some experience with that. Want me to show you how I was beaten by this guy the other day. 

 

I was playing Kaga and... hmm, let's say I'm a slightly more competent CV player than that guy. 

 

You know just by a tiny margin. Yet I stood absolutley no chance against this god gamer. Wanna take a wild guess why? I'll give you a clue.

[JohnMac79]

11 hours ago, Farheim said:

Aaaaaand?

How else would you like it explaining? I only speak English so i cant do it in another language...

[Farheim]

11 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

How else would you like it explaining? I only speak English so i cant do it in another language...

No I mean and what of it? Yes CV isn't putting itself at risk while spotting, coz yea that's how the class works, you can only do stuff with your planes and not your ship? And let's be honest DD isn't risking either, coz there are only two things that can put DD at risk - radar and CV. And yea, another DD, so make it three things. So when a DD ends up on a flank with the enemy DD killed and CV not being present, he can do whatever he wants to, coz there aren't much stealth radars in the game and you should have some kind of awareness if its present on the flank or not.

 

And I mean DDs also don't put themselves at risk while they torp everyone staying in stealth too. And everyone is fine with that, coz you know playing a BB on a flank without CV spotting Halland and your own DD either dead or abandoning the flank for whatever reason IS SO FUN WOHOOO totally fair and cool. And yet everyone s fine with that, we all just suck it up, accept it and try to get good at positioning even in those kind of situations and learn something from that experience. Yet DD mains always act like spoiled brats, whining non-stop about literally everything that somehow DARES to give them a bit of a challenge.

[JohnMac79]

2 hours ago, Farheim said:

And let's be honest DD isn't risking either, coz there are only two things that can put DD at risk - radar and CV. And yea, another DD, so make it three things.

Which is 3 times as much risk as CV have to take for spotting.

 

2 hours ago, Farheim said:

And I mean DDs also don't put themselves at risk while they torp everyone staying in stealth too.

We are talking about spotting. Thats what the thread is about.

 

2 hours ago, Farheim said:

Yet DD mains always act like spoiled brats, whining non-stop about literally everything that somehow DARES to give them a bit of a challenge.

A bit of a challenge? You think being able to be spoted anywhere on the map at any given time is a bit of a challenge?

 

2 hours ago, Farheim said:

And I mean DDs also don't put themselves at risk while they torp everyone staying in stealth too. And everyone is fine with that, coz you know playing a BB on a flank without CV spotting Halland and your own DD either dead or abandoning the flank for whatever reason IS SO FUN WOHOOO totally fair and cool.

Try WASD. Now try to WASD a carrier strike. If you still dont get it i really dont know what to say. A DD can only be on one flank at a time, and if they whiff their torps they are in for a wait.

 

2 hours ago, Farheim said:

Yes CV isn't putting itself at risk while spotting, coz yea that's how the class works, you can only do stuff with your planes and not your ship?

So what exactly is your argument, because i have no idea what point you are trying to argue here. A DD tries to spot on a single place and if they mess up they get killed fairly quickly. If a CV tries to spot(s) and messes up, they survive completely unscathed. And to you this is completely equal?

[Dampfboot]

On 2/19/2023 at 4:53 PM, Farheim said:

Uhuh, so when all of your DDs rush in and suicide in first 3 mins, which lets be honest is the case in 80% of the games, the entire team will sit in the dark, outspotted and outgunned without any chance of comeback.

DD rush and suicide is now pretty much standard DD tactic.

To your point, what about the 40% of games that happens and there is no CV in game or one side has pseudo CVs and the other hasn't?

[Port_Authority]

On 2/19/2023 at 4:53 PM, Farheim said:

Uhuh, so when all of your DDs rush in and suicide in first 3 mins, which lets be honest is the case in 80% of the games, the entire team will sit in the dark, outspotted and outgunned without any chance of comeback.

If 3/3 of your DDs are apes and 3/3 of theirs aren't, then you should lose the game and complain to WG about the matchmaker.

I'm being serious here. There is absolutely no reason why MM shouldn't reshuffle matched players in between team green and team red based on WR, including whole divisions. It would not increase matchmaking time.

 

[WarburtonLee]

5 hours ago, Port_Authority said:

If 3/3 of your DDs are apes and 3/3 of theirs aren't, then you should lose the game and complain to WG about the matchmaker.

I'm being serious here. There is absolutely no reason why MM shouldn't reshuffle matched players in between team green and team red based on WR, including whole divisions. It would not increase matchmaking time.

 

There is a very good reason for that, and that is everyone will end up at 50% winrate, and playing the game becomes pointless.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

Y'all take too much time explaining the obvious to @Farheim. The simple answer:

15 hours ago, Farheim said:

coz yea that's how the class works

Yeah, and that is exactly what is . No one is happy how the class works. Anyone who does als wouldn't mind playing Monopoly with loaded dice. The only difference is that they wouldn't have the gall to try and explain how that is completely fair.

 

 

[Onsterfelijke]

On 2/19/2023 at 4:46 PM, Mr_Damager said:

Plane spotting should be removed completely!

The CVs and Hybrids should spot only for themselves (the spotted are still displayed on the minimap). They would still be able to do damage and enjoy the game.

It should be indirect spotting the CV sees the target but the rest of the team sees there is something there but not lockable target.

[DFens_666]

On 2/19/2023 at 6:05 PM, Farheim said:

CV, no matter how bad the player is, still provdies spotting.

 

 

CV had all the info that a DD was going for him. You think he spotted him? Let alone attacked him?

 

Just to show he didnt attack him. My BB or CA hit him once while i fought him.

[SurfaceFish]

Personally I think WG allows passive spotting for CV is because it narrows the skill gap between a good and bad CV players. 

 

A bad CV player will not out damage or able to read the map to choose high priority targets to help the team win. If there is mini map spotting only, the good CV players will focus on damage more. How would you make a bad CV player more effective to compensate?

[lup3s]

10 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

How would you make a bad CV player more effective to compensate?

 

How about learning to play the [edited]game ?

[SurfaceFish]

22 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

How about learning to play the [edited]game ?

Sure, then you wakeup! 

 

This will only happen if WG put in minimum standard like WR/PR for progression which is opposite of their game design. So that's not going to happen ever. 

 

In the main time, removing real time spotting just make a good CV players more impactful than the bad or average CV players. 

 

Do you want CV to be potentially more impactful than they do now. 

 

Here is a Twitch CV player I'm following recently to improve, with 70% solo WR and 3k PR, it shows what CV is capable of in this game. 

 

WG can only help the bad/average CV players by give then passive skills such as realtime spotting and auto ASW. As a good CV players needs to read map and flow of battle to be effective as there are so many strike choices a CV player has, so it is important to make the correct ones all game. This skill is not easily learned, and will never be learned by bad CV players. 

 

[lup3s]

3 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

WG can only help the bad/average CV players by give then passive skills such as realtime spotting and auto ASW.

 

These also make the good player stronger.

 

How about the bad player just gets better at the game ? So the skill gap is reduced; there will always be one but at least it's smaller.

 

But of course, that's expecting too much of most gamers nowadays - that they put in some effort to learn how to play the game.

 

I remember a time when games came with a hefty manual; though I reckon that, if there were one for Wows, these "bad players" would still not bother to read it. 

"I have the right to suck at this game."

[SurfaceFish]

6 minutes ago, lup3s said:

These also make the good player stronger

But good players don't need those skills to be effective, they are already good without them, unlike bad players. So by removing real time spotting, good CV players will still dominant the game, but bad players will throw away all their planes at a red BB in the back then become useless. 

 

Why do you think WG if buffing spotting damage and reducing active damage. Which will buff xp for sub and CV the most, because there are so many bad players playing those two classes. 

[Farheim]

4 hours ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

No one is happy how the class works.

I am. 

>B-b-b-b-but you're a CV main

Uhm, no sweetie, most of the time I play on surface ships and yet I'm perfectly fine with CVs and how they work.

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

CV had all the info that a DD was going for him. You think he spotted him? Let alone attacked him?

Conisdering that it's a tier 6 game I'm willing to assume this CV was either new to the game or the class. And that's fine.

17 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

And to you this is completely equal?

This game isn't about equality, sunshine. In a game where ships like Smaland exist you can't really talk about equality or fairness. It's about being playable and overall fine, to an extend. CVs been providing plane spotting ever since they were released and its funny how people sitll can't get over it. But again, talk about DD mains acting like spoiled brats.