skipping bombs

[tocqueville8]

7 hours ago, Spearhawk1969 said:

fact...the bomb never rises more than about 5 metres

then how come on more than one occasion I see the bombs fly OVER the dd's on second or third "skip"

This is the game where your planes can climb a mountain and drop torps from a 500 m precipice, only for them to start working perfectly, and in a tidy spread...

[Wulf_Ace]

10 hours ago, Spearhawk1969 said:

until today, I would say skipping bombs was a fake idea, but I googled it, and it is there....
why would anyone ever come up with an idea like that, its not like the ocean is going to be level or plain and you can skip

bombs that weight **** kg on the surface. I would say the waves and difference in height etc due to waves would make it 

very difficult to hit something but as they say in the wikipedia, the skipping was ment to be so close, and so fast

that it would be almost french kissing the sailors in the other ship.

 

also the aircrafts was suppose to be so fast they could avoid AA, anyone at WG tried flying the aircrafts in a Sarov(or whatever its name is)
I could get out and run past them.

but I guess its all just for laughs and giggles, and it make me giggle to see the DD not once, not twice but 3 times get overflown by skipping 

bombs.

 

whats next? flying torpedoes? guided by the gas from the engines , oh wait, thats Star Trek.....

 

oh yeah and the reticule is a "guide" then add rng and other stuff then the bombs does not really skip where the lines was so its basically a guessing game.

how about you read why they tried to make them

[Karasu_Browarszky]

19 hours ago, Panocek said:

And since when "real life" or "logic" apply to this game?

 

And yet we pay real money for it....

 

19 hours ago, Spearhawk1969 said:

I am alright with joke being on me, I can laugh at me and with me as well.
 

the fun part, imagine being a guy on the deck of that DD seeing a bomb skipping above you

I wonder what would go through that guys head....

Oh look a shiny bomb across the skies.

 

19 hours ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

in RL, it would hit him in head...cause 4-5 meters were maximum altitude

 

Perhaps this is what they call a bombe surprise...

 

19 hours ago, Panocek said:

Not even that. Game had some "realistic" aspirations in alpha times, then went with "historically flavored when its convenient".

 

Oh so that's how the game was still so superior in open Beta because it probably still showed some Alpha traces as opposed to now when it's a steaming pile of...

 

19 hours ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

 

 

17 hours ago, SmokinSerj said:

As far as I know, they were not invented for being used on the ocean, but on the dams, where the water is rather calm.

 

11 hours ago, BrusilovX said:

The British used skipping bombs in the dambuster raids on the three German dams.

 

Looking at various bit of film on the development and testing of these bombs they had one variant that was tested using a Mosquito plane.

 

Anyone who played the good olde Dambusters on CBM-64 knows how frustrating it can be o get it just a little bit off when you finally get to target the dam and the dam's not busted but your mission is.

[Panocek]

2 hours ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

 

And yet we pay real money for it....

 

 

 

Perhaps this is what they call a bombe surprise...

 

 

Oh so that's how the game was still so superior in open Beta because it probably still showed some Alpha traces as opposed to now when it's a steaming pile of...

 

 

 

 

Anyone who played the good olde Dambusters on CBM-64 knows how frustrating it can be o get it just a little bit off when you finally get to target the dam and the dam's not busted but your mission is.

If you're so obsessed with "realism" you might want to check out War Thunder. But then you might realize some of the... artistic liberties WG took actually made sense gameplay wise.

[DeviousDave02]

So for anyone who is interested (not many I know) Skip bombing was developed before The Dam Busters raid in 43 and was, in fact, developed originally as an anti shipping technique.

 

The earliest examples of proto skip bombing came from the UK in 1939 with pilots of costal defence planes, such as Bristol Blenheim's, dropping bombs at mast height in an effort to hit and destroy moving vessels. This came with moderate success as although the accuracy from these attacks was quite high, the bombs however did not always arm in time due to the short delay  after release before impact.

 

The United States played around with skip bombing too at around this time. Level bombing from altitude consistently proved to be rather unsuccessful against moving targets at sea, with the point being hammered home in late 41 and early 42 after Pearl Harbour when only a fraction of the bombs dropped by B-17's against Japanese shipping hitting their targets (if any hit at all).

 

So similar to the British, The USA looked into low level bombing techniques and multiple methods were investigated, namely mast height bombing and skip bombing.

 

Now these techniques had a few major attributes to them that made them appealing and a couple of detribute that made them challenging.

 

- Any plane could do this, from a fast fighter with bombs under it's wings to a B-17 or Lancaster heavy bomber.

- Planes were moving fast when pulling these tricks off unlike torpedo bombers who had to slow right down when dropping their torpedoes.

- Bombs were hitting the enemy very shortly after release so less predictive aiming was required and targets had less time to try and evade.

- Bombs were cheaper and tended to carry more explosive than an equivalent torpedo of the time.

- No specialist equipment, designs (such as dive brakes) or mountings were needed outside the general purpose bomb mountings.

- Both techniques could be used at the same time, with a plane skipping part of it's bomb load at the target vessel and then releasing the remainder as it flew past at mast height.

 

HOWEVER

 

- Skip bombing and mast height bombing required great skill to pull off with split second timings and the ever present threat of being hit by your own bombs on the bounce or taking shrapnel from the detonation (or crashing into the enemy ships mast if you got your height wrong).

- Bombs could (and did) detonate when hitting the water below the plane.

- Only bombs with a rounded nose would perform the skipping motion properly, any other shape caused wild bounces that messed with accuracy.

- Mast height bombing put planes uncomfortable close to the enemy ship making them easier targets for AA gunners and at the mercy of the ENTIRE ships AA arsenal as at that close a distance even a .50 cal is going to hurt.

 

Skip bombing as a technique was used by most of the combatant forces during WW2 that were involved in naval warfare or costal defence. Even the Soviets apparently used it (or at least practiced it) although don't quote me on that one as I'm having a tough time finding any exact references about it.

 

Now, regarding the legendary Dam Buster raid and the bouncing bombs used there. Those weapons were designed specifically for that mission and were intended to skim over the lakes surface leading up to the dam, thus avoiding the anti torpedo netting that the Germans had stretched out across the area to prevent the allies from knocking out the dam with conventional torpedoes. The bomb would then hit the dam and then roll down the dams face and sink until they lay against the foundations before detonating. That way they would cause maximum damage to the dam and cause the biggest delay in getting it repaired.

 

Skip bombing was used throughout the war and only really fell out of use after it, with the advent of missiles and smart bombs rendering the technique obsolete.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

2 hours ago, Panocek said:

If you're so obsessed with "realism" you might want to check out War Thunder. But then you might realize some of the... artistic liberties WG took actually made sense gameplay wise.

 

Oh some of them make sense, others less so. It's not like it's a binary choice unless you absolutely insist on treating it as such.

[Dampfboot]

On 2/17/2023 at 3:04 PM, Panocek said:

Not even that. Game had some "realistic" aspirations in alpha times, then went with "historically flavored when its convenient".

They do indeed claim historic limitations to justify nerfs. That doesn't apply for Russian ships of course, because they are mostly wet paper napkin dreams.

[Fediuld]

On 2/17/2023 at 3:15 PM, Spearhawk1969 said:

so I tried the russian cv and their skipping bombs....

fact...the bomb never rises more than about 5 metres

then how come on more than one occasion I see the bombs fly OVER the dd's on second or third "skip"

 

did they suddenly make dd that is only 4 meter tall?

Is your aim. Just make sure the line is straight with the ship waterline on DD and deck with everything else.

 

If you need help with the aiming, there is a mod with makes transparent the flak airburst, helping you to aim especially on dark maps. 

[invicta2012]

9 hours ago, DeviousDave02 said:

- Mast height bombing put planes uncomfortable close to the enemy ship making them easier targets for AA gunners and at the mercy of the ENTIRE ships AA arsenal as at that close a distance even a .50 cal is going to hurt.

Which is why the tactic was largely used by squadrons flying Beaufighters, A-20 Havocs and B-25 gunships. The Beaufighter has 4 x 20mm Bofors in the nose and half a dozen .303 Brownings in the wings, as did the A-20s.... the B-25 late series planes have eight MGs in the nose, as well as additional gun pods on the fuselage and HVAR rockets on the wings. Attacking en masse,  the lead plane in a flight would simply eviscerate the light, unarmoured AA defences of transport ships and destroyers and leave its colleagues to deliver the coup de grace.  The only way in which Japanese ships could be defended from these kinds of attack was by superior fighter cover... and from 1943 onwards this simply wasn't available.