Made a mistake and decided to return to game.

[Varian_Dorn]

8 hours ago, Fonfalks said:

Uninstalled. Felt really good. Might come back in few more years, if this dumpsterfire is still around, just to check how many more idiotic decisions WG can make. 

 

Please don´t come back, ever. Game has enough m***** as it is, go find some other forum and game to pester with your.... insightful and balanced... "thoughts".

[Panocek]

13 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

By that Logic all classes are Mistakes.

Assuming I had the Option.

 

If I play DD I am gonna exclude Subs and Cruisers.

If I play Cruiser I am gonna exclude BBs.

If I play BB I am gonna exclude DDs and CVs.

If I play CV I am gonna exclude Cruisers.

And if I play Subs I will exclude BBs and CVs.

 

 

Solution is simple, remove all classes, players play with "generic ship of [insert tier]" and equip skins that look like Yamato, Fletcher or Essex. Whether Essex firing guns or Yamato launching torps makes sense, who cares, absolute perfect balans is of achieved, when there's only one ship to choose from

[KhorneFlake]

Yaaaaaawn... Subs again...

They're annoying sometimes but most of the time they're borderline useless.

So... Bye I guess?

[BlackYeti]

14 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

If I play DD I am gonna exclude Subs and Cruisers.

 

Well aren't DDs supposed to be the natural nemesis to subs? Yet here we are...

[Sunleader]

3 hours ago, BlackYeti said:

Well aren't DDs supposed to be the natural nemesis to subs? Yet here we are...

 

Well. Complain to the Playerbase about that one.

Thanks to everyone Crying their Eyes out that BBs and Cruisers dont have ASW. WG gave them the Depth Charge Airstrikes. Making BBs the Best Submarine Hunters in the Game. Because they have the HP to Slug it out with a Sub while Spamming ASW into its Direction.

 

The Community Nicely Screwed itself there. Because WG ALWAYS Balances by Spreadsheet and Average Performance of Ships.

Meaning that by Demanding all Classes to have Anti Submarine Weapons. There can be no Ship directly Countering Submarines.

Because if DDs became Stronger in ASW the Subs Average Performance in Spreadsheet would Drop below the Average Performance of other Classes. Meaning WG would either need to otherwise Buff them or wont do the Change in the First Place.

Hence we are Stuck with BBs as Submarine Hunters.

 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

This whole bit

"If I was, I would exclude ..."

just shows how narrow-minded some of you are.

 

I mean Sunleader posted this in good intention and he had a point, showing you the flaw of this way of thinking. He is already one step ahead of most of you. He just didn't want to burden you with the big picture yet.

I'll explain citing his post (@Sunleaderthis is not criticism, mind you) :

 

18 hours ago, Sunleader said:

If I play DD I am gonna exclude Subs and Cruisers.

and give up any support from friendly cruisers, radaring enemy DDs in smoke or shooting the DDs I spot, so I win the DPM-race. Also I give up having a friendly sub that overloads the enemy DD with pings and torps, so they make a mistake and die.

 

18 hours ago, Sunleader said:

If I play Cruiser I am gonna exclude BBs.

and not have friendly BBs preventing the enemy to push into me and blap enemy cruisers or dump ASW planes on subs.

 

18 hours ago, Sunleader said:

If I play BB I am gonna exclude DDs and CVs.

and have zero spotting from my own DDs and CV, one of the most frequent demands of BB players.

 

18 hours ago, Sunleader said:

If I play CV I am gonna exclude Cruisers.

the prime target of AP-bombs/rockets and important barrier against DDs/Subs just sneaking up on me.

 

18 hours ago, Sunleader said:

And if I play Subs I will exclude BBs and CVs.

 thus ruining my early warning against plane-spotted enemy DDs, spotting of targets while I'm submerged, taking away my most frequent damage pinata and the one ship whose ASW strikes help me, when I use underwater surveillance.

 

At this point of hopeful epiphany, it should become clear, that whoever wants a ship type out of the game is not criticizing the ship, but rather their own team mates. Every ship brings benefits for your own team. I find ways of being a usefulpart of my team even in initially selfish concepts such as subs or openwater-gunboats. I wouldn't want to miss any aspects of this interaction, as it just dumbs down the game to an arcade-style.

[Sunleader]

8 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

This whole bit

"If I was, I would exclude ..."

just shows how narrow-minded some of you are.

 

I mean Sunleader posted this in good intention and he had a point, showing you the flaw of this way of thinking. He is already one step ahead of most of you. He just didn't want to burden you with the big picture yet.

I'll explain citing his post (@Sunleaderthis is not criticism, mind you) :

 

and give up any support from friendly cruisers, radaring enemy DDs in smoke or shooting the DDs I spot, so I win the DPM-race. Also I give up having a friendly sub that overloads the enemy DD with pings and torps, so they make a mistake and die.

 

and not have friendly BBs preventing the enemy to push into me and blap enemy cruisers or dump ASW planes on subs.

 

and have zero spotting from my own DDs and CV, one of the most frequent demands of BB players.

 

the prime target of AP-bombs/rockets and important barrier against DDs/Subs just sneaking up on me.

 

 thus ruining my early warning against plane-spotted enemy DDs, spotting of targets while I'm submerged, taking away my most frequent damage pinata and the one ship whose ASW strikes help me, when I use underwater surveillance.

 

At this point of hopeful epiphany, it should become clear, that whoever wants a ship type out of the game is not criticizing the ship, but rather their own team mates. Every ship brings benefits for your own team. I find ways of being a usefulpart of my team even in initially selfish concepts such as subs or openwater-gunboats. I wouldn't want to miss any aspects of this interaction, as it just dumbs down the game to an arcade-style.

 

Close. But not a Cigar.

You are making this way too Complicated Killian.

 

The Point is that from the very Start the Game is NOT Balanced with the Intention of every Ship being Equally Strong against every other Ship.

All Ships in the Game have Roles which come with Advantages and Disadvantages depending on the Situation.

Thats where You got close to what I wanted to Demonstrate.

Due to these Advantages and Disadvantages. You always have cases where a Ship is Superior or Inferior depending on the Situation and Enemy it is Faced with.

 

If for example You had a Match of a Team with only BBs vs a Team with only Cruisers. The BBs would most likely Win Hands Down.

This is because the Weaknesses of the BBs which is Slow Maneuvering and Inability to Outspot other Ships doesnt really matter while at the same time their Strong Points of Big Guns and Thick Armor are Fully coming into Play.

Likewise the Cruisers Strong Points like having Radar/Hydro Paired with Fast Firing Guns are almost useless here while the Cruisers Weaknesses like Exposed Citadels and Short Ranged Torpedoes will make them exceedingly Vulnearble against BBs.

 

But The Game is not Played this way.

The Game is Balanced around all classes being Present.

This means that Your Half of Your Class needing other Classes for certain Jobs that they are bad at themselves is True.

But it also means that if You Remove a Class that You are Bad against. You also create an Unbalanced Situation because this Class You are Bad against Changes depending on your Class.

 

 

TLDR

If Everyone could Choose to Exclude Classes You would end up with each Shipclass only Playing against itself.

Because it will Exclude the Classes it is weak against and will be Excluded by the Classes that its strong against.

[HMS_Kilinowski]

24 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Close. But not a Cigar.

You are making this way too Complicated Killian.

 

No, it's not complicated, but pretty simple.

Whatever you don't want to play against in the enemy team, is the same thing that your mirror on the enemy team does not want to play against in your team. If you feel that you not facing this difficulty weights more than the enemy not facing the very same difficulty, you implicitly admit that you are a worse player than your average mirrored opponent. You thus are not criticizing any ship, but yourself.

[Panzer_Guido]

19 hours ago, endlessBoogie said:

exclude targets?

 

ah...the days when cruiser AA was a thing. Long past they are.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

8 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

 

No, it's not complicated, but pretty simple.

Whatever you don't want to play against in the enemy team, is the same thing that your mirror on the enemy team does not want to play against in your team. If you feel that you not facing this difficulty weights more than the enemy not facing the very same difficulty, you implicitly admit that you are a worse player than your average mirrored opponent. You thus are not criticizing any ship, but yourself.

If you aren't conscious of that self criticism though then it's absolutely useless and the majority in this forum falls into this category. And they'll likely never wake up to it. 

 

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

[Sunleader]

2 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

 

No, it's not complicated, but pretty simple.

Whatever you don't want to play against in the enemy team, is the same thing that your mirror on the enemy team does not want to play against in your team. If you feel that you not facing this difficulty weights more than the enemy not facing the very same difficulty, you implicitly admit that you are a worse player than your average mirrored opponent. You thus are not criticizing any ship, but yourself.

 

I am Aware Killian. But this is way too Complicated for the People You are Talking to there.

99% of the Average Players dont give a Damn about what others Face. They care about what THEY Face.

 

People Crying about Submarines dont care about the 9 attempts where that Submarine got Killed without ever Reaching them because it got Spotted once for 3 Seconds and had 5 Depth Charge Airstrikes Dropped on its Head.

They care about the 1 attempt where that Submarine got through undetected and is now torping them undisturbed.

 

Before the Subs it was the CVs. People dont care that the CV has to deal with AA Cruisers sitting in the middle of the Map in Smoke killing their Aircraft or that the CV has to keep caring about being Sniped by BBs when Spotted.

What they care about is only when the CV has reached THEM and is Bombing them Repeatedly. And if the CV needs the whole Match to Kill them. Effectively doing nothing else for 15 Minutes. They dont See that basicly the entire Remaining Team played without the CV ever even attacking them. They only See that they could not do much about the CV Attacking them.

For them. The Fact that in 9 of 10 Matches the CV will be entirely Inconsequential for them isnt relevant. Because they only See that 1 case where it is.

 

 

 

And no Offense Killian.

But I have nowhere near as much Faith in Humanity as You.

I have LOOOONG given up on even attempting to Explain this to People.

Nowdays I Generally Try to just tell them to Play the Class in Question themselves. Hoping that they Realize it by Experience.

And even that is Generally Asked too much of these People.

[HMS_Kilinowski]

24 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

If you aren't conscious of that self criticism though then it's absolutely useless and the majority in this forum falls into this category. And they'll likely never wake up to it. 

 

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

 

Yes, it is sad. Cause likely if you boil down all the criticism over the years, maybe a quarter of it was based on evidence, the majority after a closer look reveals to be incompetence to deal with changes. I even know a guy who loved to play old RTS CVs. After the CV-rework he suddenly sucked in them and has ever since totally changed his mind towards CVs. Suddenly the class he thought fit into the game perfectly before had become a toxic class. Cross-torping, strafing, spotting torpedoes was all fine. Just him not being able to master the new play style meant CVs had to go. But ofc that all had nothing to do with him failing at the class.

 

It's actually quite simple: Players are advocates to themselves, they rarely give honest and objective feedback.

If a player doesn't like a class, very likely you will find he doesn't play the class and has nothing to lose, if the class was removed.

Same goes for demands for nerfs of individual ships. If a player complains about a ship being too strong, check his profile and you will see, he doesn't play the ship.

If on the other hand a player says a ship is too weak and needs a buff, then bingo, you will find he is using the ship, likely has even spent money on it.

 

Ofc, if somebody criticizes their demands, they feel threatened cause the more criticism their demand is met with, the less likely it becomes that their demand will be heard by a person in charge. The question whether that criticism is correct is irrelevant to them, they just care about their individual interests. So they tend to bully other opinions, to force people out of a conversation. Top notch grown-up discussion culture.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

4 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

So they tend to bully other opinions, to force people out of a conversation. Top notch grown-up discussion culture.

It's thanks to the cancel culture trend going on right now. Just look at the Hogwarts legacy nonsense. An amazing game but a crowd of important feeling people are going around harrassing everyone who wants to enjoy this video game. It's disgusting. Same thing with this community and their attitude towards sub or CV players. They don't realize how toxic they became in the name of whatever they want to achieve.

[HMS_Kilinowski]

22 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

What they care about is only when the CV has reached THEM and is Bombing them Repeatedly. And if the CV needs the whole Match to Kill them. Effectively doing nothing else for 15 Minutes. They dont See that basicly the entire Remaining Team played without the CV ever even attacking them. They only See that they could not do much about the CV Attacking them.

For them. The Fact that in 9 of 10 Matches the CV will be entirely Inconsequential for them isnt relevant. Because they only See that 1 case where it is.

 

I see what you're saying and I agree.

But you got to see the irony of this.

Good players want to absorb certain hazards for their team, to give their team the upper hand. They do tank in BBs, bait CVs in DDs, dig into key positions in CAs, to bind ressources of their enemy. It is exactly because bad players care about not facing difficulties themselves, rather than mastering to counter them, why they fall behind in their skills and lose even more.

 

This reminds me of what the german neuroscientist Manfred Spitzer said in a presentation. By deliberately seeking the challenge, the brain builds capacity during childhood and prevents dementia in old age. Now we know there is a portion of rather old players in WoWs or such players who haven't been raised to accept mental challenges. So consequently they refuse these challenges wherever possible. Ironically by aiming for comfort, they hurt themselves doing so, cause they reduce their own capacity to cope with future challenges. They initiate a vicious circle that one day ends in early dementia.

 

18 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

It's thanks to the cancel culture trend going on right now. Just look at the Hogwarts legacy nonsense. An amazing game but a crowd of important feeling people are going around harrassing everyone who wants to enjoy this video game. It's disgusting. Same thing with this community and their attitude towards sub or CV players. They don't realize how toxic they became in the name of whatever they want to achieve.

 

This is just the same scapegoating that humanity has seen over centuries. The people that complain about other clusters of people are the same that would have burned midwifes as witches or accused successful merchants of a different religion to have poisoned the well in the Middle Ages. Don't let it get to you.

[Sunleader]

18 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

 

I see what you're saying and I agree.

But you got to see the irony of this.

Good players want to absorb certain hazards for their team, to give their team the upper hand. They do tank in BBs, bait CVs in DDs, dig into key positions in CAs, to bind ressources of their enemy. It is exactly because bad players care about not facing difficulties themselves, rather than mastering to counter them, why they fall behind in their skills and lose even more.

 

This reminds me of what the german neuroscientist Manfred Spitzer said in a presentation. By deliberately seeking the challenge, the brain builds capacity during childhood and prevents dementia in old age. Now we know there is a portion of rather old players in WoWs or such players who haven't been raised to accept mental challenges. So consequently they refuse these challenges wherever possible. Ironically by aiming for comfort, they hurt themselves doing so, cause they reduce their own capacity to cope with future challenges. They initiate a vicious circle that one day ends in early dementia.

 

 

This is just the same scapegoating that humanity has seen over centuries. The people that complain about other clusters of people are the same that would have burned midwifes as witches or accused successful merchants of a different religion to have poisoned the well in the Middle Ages. Don't let it get to you.

 

Great.

I am telling You that what You said before is already completely beyond the People that my Post was Aimed at. And You Upgrade to Pyschology and then even go into Neurology.....

 

 

And Yes. I am aware this is a Self Reinforcing Problem that keeps making itself worse.

 

If you want to have the Extra Laugh from Irony You can also take a step further and realize that WG effectively has no other Choice but to constantly offend these Players if they want to remain in Business.

Because while they Avoid Challenge and thus Generally Hate any and all Changes to an Existing System. Doubly so if it adds any level of Complexity. The Current Generation of Gamers wants to be Challenged and will grow Bored fairly Quickly if not constantly given new things to Occupy their Mind with.

Meaning that if WG would stop constantly changing the Game and adding new stuff the Vast Majority of Players would soon lose Interest and Playernumbers would start Dropping.

 

 

But while this may be Hilarious to Think about in theory. What You are Saying is in Practical Terms not Correct and also: 

You are getting even further away from actually saying anything remotely relevant to the People Complaining here.

 

 

 

1.

Why is this not Correct in Practice.

 

Thats because not everyone Plays this Game for Mental Challenge.

Many Players do in Fact Play World of Warships just to Stop thinking and Relax.

This doesnt mean they dont Challenge their Minds in other Places. It just means they dont Challenge their Minds here and also dont want this to be Challenging. 

 

After all. You would certainly not Want Your Hot Bath in the Evening to become a Challenge instead would You ? :)

 

Spoiler

Fun Fact. I do not consider this Game Mentally Challenging at all. I am used to way more Complex Games like Hearts of Iron, Rimworld, Europa Universalis 4 or Elite Dangerous etc.

Whenever Stellaris adds another DLCs that basicly turns the entires Game Balance on its Head I have a Round with Friends where we Play on Highest Difficulty and try out the new things and what You can make out of them.

So in World of Warships while I love the Addition of Submarines as it brings something Fresh into the Game. The way they dumbed down the mechanics to keep it accessible to the vast majority still makes it way too easy and boring as that I would actually bother thinking about it in any bigger depth. (pun not intended)

Hence why despite Playing this Game Casually without any desire to Challenge myself. I am not getting angry about the changes.

 

 

2.

Why this is even further away from being remotely relevant to the People Complaining.

 

Well. This one is fairly Obvious.

I just told You that You cannot Expect these People to do Multiplication. And You basicly went and upgraded to Exponentials.....

 

Someone who doesnt want to be Challenged thinking about the Indirect Consequences of things 2 Steps away. Sure as Hell doesnt want to be Challenged thinking about Indirect Consequences 50 Steps away....

 

 

[Litigo]

On 2/14/2023 at 9:58 AM, Fonfalks said:

Yeah... How do you guys play it? Played on DD and BB, both are utterly unplayable and gameplay is COMPLETE crap all because of submarines

Many of us no longer do play it, at least, not anywhere near as much as we used to. 

Submarines have taken the joy out of the game for me. 

I'm nearing the end. 

 

[Ruthus]

3 hours ago, Litigo said:

Many of us no longer do play it, at least, not anywhere near as much as we used to. 

Submarines have taken the joy out of the game for me. 

I'm nearing the end. 

 

I am not getting personal with you, I see this sort of post all the time.

 

When I find  a new thing to go play I get enthusiastic about it and get on with the new path. I dont feel the need the hang around the forums of the old game in some attempt to justify why I invested time in that game (as i enjoyed it at the time) or why i am now leaving (i am tired/bored/disagree with design decisions). 

 

Just move on.

 

I find posts that start "I haven't played for two years but here is my pint of bile" a bizarre waste of everyone's time. It just dumps tons of negativity into the forums, which fans the fires. 

 

Once again, this is not a comment to you or this particular post so please dont flame me, its just a point that increasingly frustrates me.

[KhorneFlake]

4 hours ago, Litigo said:

Many of us no longer do play it, at least, not anywhere near as much as we used to. 

Submarines have taken the joy out of the game for me. 

I'm nearing the end. 

 

You don't play much anymore?

With your stunning 53 battles total?

 

I'm quite sure many of us are not the least bit interested in your expertise...

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

7 hours ago, Ruthus said:

Once again, this is not a comment to you or this particular post so please dont flame me, its just a point that increasingly frustrates me.

People get frustrated by the game so they complain. You get frustrated by the forums, so you complain. People complain. You, me, people who play carriers, people who play battleships, people who play subs, everyone. Block people on the forum you get fed up with, it's a great feature. But please, don't let it get to your insecurities like some of the trolls we have.

 

What puzzles me is people bitching about people complaining about their matches on the game's forums. We have a few that have been doing it for years now. They are like feeders, the fetish. It's a bit cringe and quite toxic.

 

I get people complaining about their leisure game time being ruined. By whatever. That's a legit emotion and a thing. Complaining about a game forum containing content of gamers complaining about their game, and specifically targetting them constantly, thats a broken personality trait. It's parasitic on the negative emotions of others. That reeks of sadism. Brrrr.

 

--------------------

 

That being sa(i)d, pun intended, I don't think subs should be a reason to not play the game anymore. Most subs are quite harmless because the ones playing them are quite bad in them. They aren't breaking stealth and tactical options like bad carrier players do by accident. That is becasue the subs are extremely poorly designed for generic gambler 'gamers' instead of specialized gamers for which these classes are perfect for. There are sub players who are great at exploiting the poor gamedesign though. Meetin one of those can be quite annoying to gameplay.

 

What i find worse actually is that much like carriers, this developer has created more boring shallow gameplay to what could be a great IP. Two out of 5 classes are just right out boring, when their real life counterparts should invite them to create interesting stuff. Classes that should have been perfect for specialized players (like RTS was) have been gutted to packman levels of game depth. That just makes me sad. Mismanagment and misproduction for the sake of mobile gatcha game style revenu.

 

Both carriers and subs are too boring to play, that is what annoys me most.

 

 

[Andrewbassg]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:23 AM, Karasu_Browarszky said:

I play Forum.

By far the most entertaining game mode

[Andrewbassg]

2 hours ago, KhorneFlake said:

You don't play much anymore?

With your stunning 53 battles total?

 

I'm quite sure many of us are not the least bit interested in your expertise...

 

Ummm...... he actually plays on NA wazz unjustifiably banned from there and played the mandatory battles, so he can post here.

 

Like  https://forum.worldofwarships.com/profile/1023912881-el2azer/

 

Juuust sayin.....

 

Edit: Aactually mea culpa  he wazz unbanned 

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/profile/1008625335-litigo_1970/

[Karasu_Browarszky]

@Europizza On top of all, some BB's are more effective when played like DD's. Don't know whether to cry or to laugh.

 

 

[Andrewbassg]

18 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

I see what you're saying and I agree.

But you got to see the irony of this.

Good players want to absorb certain hazards for their team, to give their team the upper hand. They do tank in BBs, bait CVs in DDs, dig into key positions in CAs, to bind ressources of their enemy.

Oh yes, absolutely.

 

18 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

It is exactly because bad players care about not facing difficulties themselves, rather than mastering to counter them, why they fall behind in their skills and lose even more.

 

This reminds me of what the german neuroscientist Manfred Spitzer said in a presentation. By deliberately seeking the challenge, the brain builds capacity during childhood and prevents dementia in old age. Now we know there is a portion of rather old players in WoWs or such players who haven't been raised to accept mental challenges. So consequently they refuse these challenges wherever possible. Ironically by aiming for comfort, they hurt themselves doing so, cause they reduce their own capacity to cope with future challenges. They initiate a vicious circle that one day ends in early dementia.

Nah that's false. The problem is not the difficulty but the lack of honesty in the implementation of the latest (and the not so one) abominations of Weeegee. I wouldn't mind Cv;'s per se, bonkers as they are, but the flyin monkes also spot, doubling down on their already mindless, reetarded and toxic capabilities.

 

18 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

This is just the same scapegoating that humanity has seen over centuries. The people that complain about other clusters of people are the same that would have burned midwifes as witches or accused successful merchants of a different religion to have poisoned the well in the Middle Ages. Don't let it get to you.

And that's again false, because there is not, one, single honest factual argument, which can be made, in order to defend the class. If that wouldn't  be the case, then you would have a point. But given the existing status quo......that's just mental gymnastics. Tho not bad per se.

 

 

[Ronchabale]

On 2/14/2023 at 4:58 PM, Fonfalks said:

After gym had really no energy to do anything productive and decided to return to this game.

Yeah... How do you guys play it? Played on DD and BB, both are utterly unplayable and gameplay is COMPLETE crap all because of submarines and every game had only 1, i can not even imagine what happens when there are more. 

 

Among all the bad, horrible and completely insane ideas WG has implemented in this game submarines are by far, FAR worst. 

Why not have option to exclude them? 

Made a mistake and decided to return to game

Big mistake..

[Litigo]

On 2/16/2023 at 3:08 AM, KhorneFlake said:

You don't play much anymore?

With your stunning 53 battles total?

53 battles on the EU server. 

21,000+ battles and 580+ ships in port on the NA server.