4 Battles on Hermes, 4 losses. From now it's like this...

[NewHorizons_1]

1 minute ago, lup3s said:

but the players haven't changed, have they ?

I think they have. I suspect the ops rework, and WG's advertisement of new content, drew the attention of a lot of players that hadn't done many ops beforehand.

Normally, that would be a good thing.

But with the random choice of ops, I think it makes learning a specific op that much harder for a newer player.

Hence, the overall skill level of the team drops.

 

4 minutes ago, lup3s said:

What is relatively new is BBs not entering the harbour

More frequent, maybe, but not new. Pre ops-rework there were two Narai memes

1. Sweaty try-hard Weimar that killed everything and left nothing left for everyone else
2. Snipah Nagato or Colorado lobbing shells ineffectively over the islands and didn't draw fire off the troop transports

 

 

[lup3s]

7 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

I think they have. I suspect the ops rework, and WG's advertisement of new content, drew the attention of a lot of players that hadn't done many ops beforehand.

Normally, that would be a good thing.

But with the random choice of ops, I think it makes learning a specific op that much harder for a newer player.

Hence, the overall skill level of the team drops.

 

Valid point.

 

I still think it shouldn't take much effort to learn the Operations, though probably a bit more to actually learn the Operations with different ship types.

Nonetheless, the Operations should be (very) easy to learn and play right now - as soon as we have a div of 3 or 4 players, every Op is a walk in the park; imagine if we had 7 ... there's no reason other players can't learn how to play, learn how to read the mini-map, learn how to read the flow of the Operation ...

 

As mentioned multiple times : improving yourself takes effort and that's not what (most) players want to do - they just want to put their brain on zero activity and see some pixels move.

Makes me wonder if some think they're watching a movie instead of playing a game - could explain their passiveness.

[NewHorizons_1]

59 minutes ago, lup3s said:

I want to get Ops with a higher difficulty

And that's fine. But there should be a choice as not everyone is a veteran of ops.

Which is why I think it was a missed opportunity for WG to differentiate between new & veteran players (by forming same tier teams) when they allowed a wider range of tiers in to ops.

• T6 : Easier ops for newer players to learn with. Bot ships same as they used to be (or lowered** in case of Narai which was T7)
• T7 : Middle ground. Bot ships tiered up** by one (or the same in case of Narai). No artificial stat inflation.
• T8 : Hard mode. Bot ships tiered up** and/or inflated stats (eg 130k HP Musashi in Newport)

 

Coupled with "op of the day" these changes would, IMHO, help newer players learn the ropes more quickly and improve the ops experience for everyone.

 

** bot ship tiers relative to ops pre- and post-rework. So the Atlanta you used to get in Narai stays as an Atlanta for a T7 team, gets buffed to an Anchorage for a T8 (like now), but gets lowered to a T6 for a T6 team.

[Sir_Sinksalot]

Well on the funny side of things I guess it's quite the meme watching a 21kt Colorado at flank speed being dropped like a bad habit by the 32+kt Alsace escort ship. Oh the struggles. 

 

"Hey I'm supposed to protect you! Wait up! Wahhhhhhhh!"

 

Not sure but I think if the likes of a Colorado was flank speed from start to finish and just straight-lined it all the way to the exit point without stopping it would STILL be passed by the Alsace before the bot DD Ninjas could be countered by it.

 

It could be even worse, a stock propulsion US BB goes at 18.5kts. Om*g! 

[Yedwy]

11 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Well on the funny side of things I guess it's quite the meme watching a 21kt Colorado at flank speed being dropped like a bad habit by the 32+kt Alsace escort ship. Oh the struggles. 

 

"Hey I'm supposed to protect you! Wait up! Wahhhhhhhh!"

Trolorado is plenty fast enough to do the job in Hermes if the player steering her wants to do the job in the first place, her problems are something else entirely… Suffice to say if I really set out to farm random ops for something nowadays I am taking either Kutuzov or even better Massa with full sec build I even have a dedicated 21pt just for that

[Sir_Sinksalot]

14 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Trolorado is plenty fast enough to do the job in Hermes if the player steering her wants to do the job in the folirst place, her problems are something else entirely… Suffice to say if I really set out to farm random ops for something nowadays I am taking either Kutuzov or even better Massa with full sec build

Would it survive that journey as basically a solo lead ship long enough to see the finish line with those scumbag bot DD's hanging around mugging French BB's? The lead ship tends to get hard focused and there's several waves of DD with a cruiser, then a fleet of 4-5 German BB's, then that heal circle which a slow branch US BB can't afford to stop in if it actually wants to get to the end ahead of the Alsace which means it then gets hard focused by waves of Luftwaffe followed by 3-4 cruisers followed by more waves of Luftwaffe attacks along with more DD and cruiser combos... and maybe another BB or two in there. I know the US snails are tanky as f, but even so, that's gonna be some battering all by itself!

 

Of course a US snail on Raptor Rescue that invests in the south spawn CV is married to that one play for the rest of the battle and can only question their own stupidity for knowingly doing that as they watch their team also NOT escort the Raptor. Unless he gets that fortuitous path where the Raptor has to finish in the southwest corner, he's screwed for daring to leave the Raptor and trusting his team will do the escort duties(which in true Murphy's law they almost certainly won't))

 

One of my particular favorites is seeing a US snail get ballsy on Newport during the first few spawns, heading out beyond the harbor in "open waters! bring it on!" and then the big bad bot boats start spawning and he squirms as he flanks it back towards the safety of his team but alas, he never makes it and we all just watch and laugh.

 

"No! not like this! You guys SUCK as a team btw!"

 

[WingedHussar_Adler]

Finnnnnnnalyyyyyy years of whining about any element of skill in this game and/or team play payed of.......playerbase can not win simple pve encounter

[Yedwy]

30 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Would it survive that journey as basically a solo lead ship long enough to see the finish line with those scumbag bot DD's hanging around mugging French BB's? The lead ship tends to get hard focused and there's several waves of DD with a cruiser, then a fleet of 4-5 German BB's, then that heal circle which a slow branch US BB can't afford to stop in if it actually wants to get to the end ahead of the Alsace which means it then gets hard focused by waves of Luftwaffe followed by 3-4 cruisers followed by more waves of Luftwaffe attacks along with more DD and cruiser combos... and maybe another BB or two in there. I know the US snails are tanky as f, but even so, that's gonna be some battering all by itself!

 

Of course a US snail on Raptor Rescue that invests in the south spawn CV is married to that one play for the rest of the battle and can only question their own stupidity for knowingly doing that as they watch their team also NOT escort the Raptor. Unless he gets that fortuitous path where the Raptor has to finish in the southwest corner, he's screwed for daring to leave the Raptor and trusting his team will do the escort duties(which in true Murphy's law they almost certainly won't))

 

One of my particular favorites is seeing a US snail get ballsy on Newport during the first few spawns, heading out beyond the harbor in "open waters! bring it on!" and then the big bad bot boats start spawning and he squirms as he flanks it back towards the safety of his team but alas, he never makes it and we all just watch and laugh.

 

"No! not like this! You guys SUCK as a team btw!"

 

Yep THAT is the Trolorado issue, not her speed as such

[DasTongle]

On 2/6/2023 at 7:25 PM, Sir_Sinksalot said:

And that's just to add to the pile of many past experiences. Anyway from now on if by the halfway mark where there's a temporary heal circle it STILL hasn't sunk into my teammates brains(or lack there of) that the objective of the mission is to protect the forking Alsace named Ruan(Why not Hermes btw?) with the obvious "DEFEND" sign featured above it, and instead I see my team continue to hang back a mile behind that ship, I'm going to quit, simple as. And by quit I mean yolocide into the next closest available bot ship.

 

It's like Raptor Rescues evil twin. There's literally no point to waste another 7-10 minutes of playtime on what's going to be yet another case of witnessing 3 bot DD's killing the Alsace we're missioned with protecting with walls of torpedoes and that's going to happen each and every time it's not protected. Every loss on this scenario is the same every time, I go out on my shield trying to kill these DD's amidst a hail of bot CV and cruiser fire to add to those incoming fire from the bot DD's, and I jump on those torpedoes to try save Alsace but it doesn't matter, with 3-4 full health teammates forking about half way back the map nowhere near the Alsace as they drool about aimlessly scratching their nut bags.

 

Well no more, if the teams a dead duck by the halfway mark, I'm off to scuttle my ship into the next closest available bot. It's a waste of time if the team aren't understanding the mission.

Oh no a cv had a bad time in randoms.... 

[Sir_Sinksalot]

34 minutes ago, DasTongle said:

Oh no a cv had a bad time in randoms.... 

 

You posted in wrong thread or spezhul?

 

I'm sure somewhere a player did have a bad time with a CV in randoms but this thread is neither about CV's or randoms so, you can kinda see how literally everything you said is wrong lol. 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

Here the scout plane did the "cant kill last plane trick again".

Spoiler

 

 

Then Alsace decided to run into the three DD bots (yes I admit, my cruisers did not shoot them fast enough, plus we had no radars)

Spoiler

 

 

So as a team player I recognized the danger and put my ship between the Alsace and bot DDS.

Needles to say that my dispersion literally splashed around the DD as I tried to kill at least one.

Spoiler

 

 

So yeah. I took all the torps for Alsace and  died. I got called noob by our cruisers and were reported twice.

Alsace died few minute after that by being heavily focused by the Luftwaffe, while 5 of the players in our team survived.

 

So I ask again. How is this operation a good design?

Am I the only one seeing this, while all of you "elitists" are claiming that "all is fine", that the "operation is too easy" etc etc.

 

Lets gat this straight. YES ... ALL OPERATIONS ARE EASY ... IF YOU PLAY THEM IN A DIVISION THAT KNOWS HOW TO PLAY.

But if you are playing with random players (AS WG INTENDS YOU TO) ... then many of this operations become UNPLAYABLE. 

 

So what do you expect .. for the player base to get better? Or is it a simple operations rework (that dynamically changes the parameters as the scenario is playing out) a more suitable idea ... idk, @Seraphice apparently you guys at WG are on totally different grounds.

 

And as if once wasnt enough ... I had to repeat the whole success story all over again.

 

 

Here is me tying to keep up with Alsace SPEEDBOOSTING TO ITS DEATH.

Tell me ... how is the Colorado for example supposed to keep up with Alsace? Did anyone at WG think of that? Our Colorado didn't even make it to the repair circle in time LOL.

Spoiler

 

 

Ye  ... ALL IS FINE IN THE WORLD OF WARSHIPS.

This are all real time situations ... daily. While WG monitors the stats, we are telling them what is wrong with ops and what could be better. But as always. Ignored and shut down.

[SurfaceFish]

1 out of 4 lost game on a good day or 2 out 5 lost games is normal for a solo operations player like me. No matter how good you are, there are build in check points you can’t overcome by yourself with bad teammates like above. 
 

WG knows this at the very start, that’s why they reduced the xp earning for full div as the operation is balanced for your average potatoes. But WG overestimate the ability of the average operation player’s ability to read or cares about the objectives. 

[Seraphice]

1 hour ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

Here the scout plane did the "cant kill last plane trick again".

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Then Alsace decided to run into the three DD bots (yes I admit, my cruisers did not shoot them fast enough, plus we had no radars)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

So as a team player I recognized the danger and put my ship between the Alsace and bot DDS.

Needles to say that my dispersion literally splashed around the DD as I tried to kill at least one.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

So yeah. I took all the torps for Alsace and  died. I got called noob by our cruisers and were reported twice.

Alsace died few minute after that by being heavily focused by the Luftwaffe, while 5 of the players in our team survived.

 

So I ask again. How is this operation a good design?

Am I the only one seeing this, while all of you "elitists" are claiming that "all is fine", that the "operation is too easy" etc etc.

 

Lets gat this straight. YES ... ALL OPERATIONS ARE EASY ... IF YOU PLAY THEM IN A DIVISION THAT KNOWS HOW TO PLAY.

But if you are playing with random players (AS WG INTENDS YOU TO) ... then many of this operations become UNPLAYABLE. 

 

So what do you expect .. for the player base to get better? Or is it a simple operations rework (that dynamically changes the parameters as the scenario is playing out) a more suitable idea ... idk, @Seraphice apparently you guys at WG are on totally different grounds.

 

And as if once wasnt enough ... I had to repeat the whole success story all over again.

 

 

Here is me tying to keep up with Alsace SPEEDBOOSTING TO ITS DEATH.

Tell me ... how is the Colorado for example supposed to keep up with Alsace? Did anyone at WG think of that? Our Colorado didn't even make it to the repair circle in time LOL.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Ye  ... ALL IS FINE IN THE WORLD OF WARSHIPS.

This are all real time situations ... daily. While WG monitors the stats, we are telling them what is wrong with ops and what could be better. But as always. Ignored and shut down.

We made some changes to this operation recently to reduce its complexity. If it proves necessary to make additional changes we will. We have our eye on it, but it's too early to make a call whether the changes we implemented were enough.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[invicta2012]

On 2/8/2023 at 1:37 PM, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Well on the funny side of things I guess it's quite the meme watching a 21kt Colorado at flank speed being dropped like a bad habit by the 32+kt Alsace escort ship. Oh the struggles. 

 

"Hey I'm supposed to protect you! Wait up! Wahhhhhhhh!"

 

Not sure but I think if the likes of a Colorado was flank speed from start to finish and just straight-lined it all the way to the exit point without stopping it would STILL be passed by the Alsace before the bot DD Ninjas could be countered by it.

 

It could be even worse, a stock propulsion US BB goes at 18.5kts. Om*g! 

But has a main battery range that covers most (if not all) of the map. 21km or so on a Colorado with Artillery Plotting room, + a spotter as well.

 

Colorado players need to be sharpshooting, whacking cruisers and enemy BBs in order to keep their faster team mates alive... not worrying about their speed too much, other than trying not to lose too much of it.

 

BTW, for a Hard mode in Hermes, set it so that the Alsace can go no faster than the *slowest* accompanying ship.  That would be quite amusing....

[triumphgt6]

I really like Ops - I almost always use Edinburgh as it is quite quick, has decent AA, torps and fast firing guns. And a super heal and smoke (very useful in Aegis to cloak the transports). More fun when a couple of division mates as more likely to get a good win but regularly play solo. Rare not to win - Aegis was an issue but seems to be suddenly easier and Hermes rarely a problem as can usually kill the scouts and the rest is just positioning really. The random nature does mean we sometimes get some odd ships turning up but that is surely part of the challenge. Of course there are odd battles where anything that can go wrong does but no different from randoms really. 

Maybe there should be a hard and easy mode as suggested before so that players can learn the operation demand first though this clearly will increase waiting times.

[b101uk]

Hermes was always relatively easy even before the last patch changes, the problem is, it requires most of the team to know their AR$€ from their elbow and at the end NOT to cower like frightened young children behind the Alsace, most of the team (CV excepted) need to be ahead of Alsace so they can be firing on the DD's at the end and being the target for torps rather than Alsace being their torp target, and there is NO point in letting just one ship do this, there are normally more than enough ships with hydro, and even without, if you get to the border faster than the DD's arrive you can already be nose-on to them paralleling the boarder and push into them. 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

53 minutes ago, b101uk said:

Hermes was always relatively easy even before the last patch changes, the problem is, it requires most of the team to know their AR$€ from their elbow and at the end NOT to cower like frightened young children behind the Alsace, most of the team (CV excepted) need to be ahead of Alsace so they can be firing on the DD's at the end and being the target for torps rather than Alsace being their torp target, and there is NO point in letting just one ship do this, there are normally more than enough ships with hydro, and even without, if you get to the border faster than the DD's arrive you can already be nose-on to them paralleling the boarder and push into them. 

 

Again. 

WOWS player base is not like that. Your expectations are too high. :)

[SurfaceFish]

1 hour ago, triumphgt6 said:

Maybe there should be a hard and easy mode as suggested before so that players can learn the operation demand first though this clearly will increase waiting times.

Please use MM monitor for operations, most players have less than 45% account WR using ships with lew 200ish PR. 

 

They cant even function in the current mode and they don't want the spend the efforts to "learn". The way is for WG to carry on "reducing the complexity" of operations until its close to co op level of difficulties.  

 

No thanks to hard mode for solo player like me. 

[b101uk]

1 hour ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

Again. 

WOWS player base is not like that. Your expectations are too high. :)

the problem is the WOWS player base differs between the NA and EU, there is much less problem with Hermes on the NA server than on the EU server, the higher population of the latter means you are more likely to have a higher proportion of the team made up of people with less\little to know knowledge of the operation.

 

playing on both the NA and EU I get to see the above.

[b101uk]

57 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

Please use MM monitor for operations, most players have less than 45% account WR using ships with lew 200ish PR.

MM monitor and by extension the data of a persons random battle WR or PR has no bearing whatsoever on the persons knowledge of the flow of ANY operation or how well they will do.

 

 

[lup3s]

5 hours ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

So I ask again. How is this operation a good design?

Am I the only one seeing this, while all of you "elitists" are claiming that "all is fine", that the "operation is too easy" etc etc.

 

Lets gat this straight. YES ... ALL OPERATIONS ARE EASY ... IF YOU PLAY THEM IN A DIVISION THAT KNOWS HOW TO PLAY.

But if you are playing with random players (AS WG INTENDS YOU TO) ... then many of this operations become UNPLAYABLE. 

 

So what do you expect .. for the player base to get better? Or is it a simple operations rework (that dynamically changes the parameters as the scenario is playing out) a more suitable idea ... idk, @Seraphice apparently you guys at WG are on totally different grounds.

 

Ngl, this issue lies with the (very) bad players, not with WG imo. There are already plenty markers / voice lines / other indications what to do in each Operation, if players can't be bothered to look at them then the fault lies with them and not WG.

 

At this point I think just saying "git gud" doesn't apply anymore, as most players seem to not want to "git gud".

[IanH755]

9 hours ago, Seraphice said:

We made some changes to this operation recently to reduce its complexity. If it proves necessary to make additional changes we will. We have our eye on it, but it's too early to make a call whether the changes we implemented were enough.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

 

I would only ask for one, minor change to be considered - After hitting start battle could a Pop-Up be added which says "Dear Players, the only way to win this Operation is to keep the Alsace alive - DO.......YOU........UNDERSTAND?" and you can't load into the match until you click "YES I UNDERSTAND I HAVE TO KEEP THE ALSACE ALIVE" - because I genuinely think most players don't actually read the Operation Instructions viewable as the match displays it's 30 second loading screen, and therefore have absolutely no clue what is happening around them.

 

It'd be nice if that same pop-up could be added to the start of every Operation, again for the same reason - people don't know what's happening as they don't/can't/won't read the instructions, IMHO.

[invicta2012]

30 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

I would only ask for one, minor change to be considered - After hitting start battle could a Pop-Up be added which says "Dear Players, the only way to win this Operation is to keep the Alsace alive - DO.......YOU........UNDERSTAND?" and you can't load into the match until you click "YES I UNDERSTAND I HAVE TO KEEP THE ALSACE ALIVE"

It's the M Night Shamalyan version of "Raptor Rescue". You know the story, but there's a big twist at the end. Of course, it's the same twist every time, so people *should* be ready for it, but it seems not. 

[lup3s]

3 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

It's the M Night Shamalyan version of "Raptor Rescue". You know the story, but there's a big twist at the end. Of course, it's the same twist every time, so people *should* be ready for it, but it seems not. 

 

The only twist I experience is finding out the team is not completely braindead

[BlackYeti]

10 hours ago, b101uk said:

MM monitor and by extension the data of a persons random battle WR or PR has no bearing whatsoever on the persons knowledge of the flow of ANY operation or how well they will do.

 

 

My sides...please stahp