4 Battles on Hermes, 4 losses. From now it's like this...

[Sir_Sinksalot]

And that's just to add to the pile of many past experiences. Anyway from now on if by the halfway mark where there's a temporary heal circle it STILL hasn't sunk into my teammates brains(or lack there of) that the objective of the mission is to protect the forking Alsace named Ruan(Why not Hermes btw?) with the obvious "DEFEND" sign featured above it, and instead I see my team continue to hang back a mile behind that ship, I'm going to quit, simple as. And by quit I mean yolocide into the next closest available bot ship.

 

It's like Raptor Rescues evil twin. There's literally no point to waste another 7-10 minutes of playtime on what's going to be yet another case of witnessing 3 bot DD's killing the Alsace we're missioned with protecting with walls of torpedoes and that's going to happen each and every time it's not protected. Every loss on this scenario is the same every time, I go out on my shield trying to kill these DD's amidst a hail of bot CV and cruiser fire to add to those incoming fire from the bot DD's, and I jump on those torpedoes to try save Alsace but it doesn't matter, with 3-4 full health teammates forking about half way back the map nowhere near the Alsace as they drool about aimlessly scratching their nut bags.

 

Well no more, if the teams a dead duck by the halfway mark, I'm off to scuttle my ship into the next closest available bot. It's a waste of time if the team aren't understanding the mission.

[bobtherterrible]

Yeah I got that experience as well so I just gave up playing CVs altogether. 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

This operation has many issues.

 

- The scout planes at the beginning are sometimes invincible

- Luftwafe targets Alsace

- Alsace uses speed boost outrunning any player not paying attention

- The heal circle is active for really short time

- BOT ships have really strong AA (even the DDs) making CVs a bad choice to play in this one

- The three bots (DDs)  at the end of the ops should be reworked . A simple mistake or well placed torpedoes by bot Ai will fail a 20 minute mission in just a few seconds

 

[22cm]

Nah.

What ships are you using and how?

There are 2 critical moments, one at the start, when YOU must go LEFT and kill the scout planes (dont wait for your team to do it), and the other at the end when YOU must go with and be THE FIRST IN THE FRONT and brawl the pack of bot DDs with hydro on (again, dont expect your team to do it) even if you die ramming them while doing it.

So you need a ship with good AA for the first one (Kidd, Benson, etc. with Def AA or any light cruiser with Def AA) and a ship with hydro for the last one (Lightning, Cossack, German DDs, Lo Yang, etc. or any light cruiser with hydro)  but also a German secondarles-specced BB with hydro or the enhanced Vigilance skill of the Jutland brothers can do it.

Usually the muppets teams kindly provided to you by WG can handle the other tasks in between, but not the first and the last, YOU must do them.

One of the easiest OPs, really.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

2 minutes ago, 22cm said:

THE FIRST IN THE FRONT

 

I play CV mostly in OPS (reasons).

It saddens me to see every surface ship hiding behind the island while Alsace is charging toward the three DDs.

 

1 game out of 3 is like this... I tried telling people what to do .. ina  kind way and a bit harsher, only resulting in my chat ban.

 

[22cm]

3 minutes ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

I play CV mostly in OPS (reasons).

It saddens me to see every surface ship hiding behind the island while Alsace is charging toward the three DDs.

 

I tried telling people what to do .. 

Then prepare, especially for OPs, a seccondaries-specced GE CV with Jutland captain and Vigilance skill and go brawl the 3 DDs in the end, soak damage, ram, have fun at the end of Hermes.

 

It never works, YOU have to do it.

[Shepke]

3 hours ago, 22cm said:

It never works, YOU have to do it.

OR.. WG have to teach their Art department (the only working one) to code and they will bring us a normal LOBBY ROOM for Operations.

OR.. At least WG can implement skill based MM just for Operations (though high skilled players can be affected with team composition for a long time)

[Panocek]

"Skill based MM" for Ops would result in the same we have now - anyone capable of reading objectives, whole two of them in the queue will be dumped into usual potato salad once once time limit is up for assembling teams with skill requirements.

Playerbase unable to read and playing with screen turned off does exactly that to any "objective" game modes. Airship, convoy escort, domination.

[Yedwy]

@OP well WG loves their RNG now dont they, thats why everyhing tends to be pushed towards 50% making even few percentage better stats in anything an order of magnitude greater effort then just letting a “coin toss” decide the matter… Thats why a) nobody takes this game serious in any competitive context and b) only suckers belive WG has any intention of developing anything thats not solely there to milk cash for basically nothing but a coin toss simulator with some added drama and gfx effects…

 

And now ops will become the same, in time prob coop also

[Khaba_Gandalf]

Simple solution: Play as a division, I mean after all it is a multiplayer game...

 

Even with only a division of three, Hermes should be at least four stars.

[lup3s]

Same problem as in Narai and Raptor Rescue : BBs letting the bots / transports tank for them.

 

Hermes particularly; Cruisers who don't rush to the exit zone to deal with those three KM DDs. Apparently pressing W four times is too difficult for 90% of the playerbase.

 

This game is bloated with potatoes; yesterday I had a Raptor Rescue where the Fuso at the start sunk two of our Cruisers. 

[Sir_Sinksalot]

I was grinding through the Edinburgh, a smoke fapping "AP only" cruiser with hydro and torps.

 

But it shouldn't really matter what ship I or anyone was/is/will be playing. These scenario missions shouldn't pigeon hole players into selecting a limited amount of ships on account of having to factor all the different missions and what's needed to cover all of the different possible scenarios(no pun intended). That just overall makes the game mode extremely limited and I think most would agree a player should be able to select any class from any of the allowed tiers and still have a big influence in the outcome of the mission so long as they play that ship well and do the right things at the right time etc, not just "Pick a sec build T8 German BB".

 

OK but let's dial it back for a moment for a simple solution or two.

 

Don't you guys think there's very simple and easy way to instantly help players understand the mission and what to do which should improve the likes of winning before any changes to balance are looked at or even needed?

 

There's several "Protect ship" style missions and as mentioned they do tend to have a "Defend" sign/text hovering over it and in some cases the mission objective is the actual name of the mission BUT, who really reads signs? And the answer is that unless a sign is extremely bling, or has flashing lights or has a very attractive woman standing next to it then most won't read a sign, be it in a game or life, FACT.

 

Fine, but what can be done about it so far as these Scenario Missions go? Well, what if the ship/ships we need to protect were "painted" in a bright high-viz yellow color? Do you guys think that would be a lot more obvious that the bright yellow ship must be of some importance and eye-catching enough to at least look at it and notice it has a "Defend" sign hovering over it? And perhaps make that "Defend" sign bigger, brighter and even pulsate as to catch the eye too? I think if that was the case then there really wouldn't be any excuse for not protecting these ship/ships other than bad play, unless they warp-speed up the map as a player mentioned above or unless they just get swarmed and hard-focused in which case the mission itself needs a little tweak.

 

I don't think that should take a lot of work from the devs to implement. Change color of escort ship/ships to a bright yellow(or something really obvious) and make the "Defend" sign bigger, brighter, pulsate. 

 

The fact that a "decent" team that showcase they understand the objectives can often comfortably complete these missions would suggest the mission difficulty itself is not always the biggest problem though.

 

Also, for Killer Whale, a similar proposal again, only with the exit zone this time. From experience I see this mission often failed on account of players seemingly being unaware that they need to go to an exit zone that appears on the map later in the mission. They clearly don't notice this and sail up the map blissfully unaware that they need to go to this location to win and if I recall, this happened to myself when I was a new player. I just didn't notice it or know. Don't you guys think it would be a really easy fix just to place a lot more eye-catching emphasis on this exit zone both on the minimap and an Exit sign hovering over the area itself? These could become brighter and starts pulsating as the countdown hits the 5-6 minutes mark. That should work?

[lup3s]

17 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

There's several "Protect ship" style missions and as mentioned they do tend to have a "Defend" sign/text hovering over it and in some cases the mission objective is the actual name of the mission BUT, who really reads signs? And the answer is that unless a sign is extremely bling, or has flashing lights or has a very attractive woman standing next to it then most won't read a sign, be it in a game or life, FACT.

 

That's a player problem though.

 

The solution is simple : LOOK AT THE [edited]OBJECTIVES / MINI MAP / HUD INDICATORS  

I really do not know why people don't look at that in a [edited]VIDEO GAME. You have to put more effort into neglecting the information than taking it in.

 

[edited]me, does everyone need to have their [edited] hands held in every [edited]game they play ? Why not just give them their 500bxp just for pressing the "BATTLE" button ? [edited]potatoes.

[Hugh_Ruka]

22 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

That's a player problem though.

 

The solution is simple : LOOK AT THE [edited]OBJECTIVES / MINI MAP / HUD INDICATORS  

I really do not know why people don't look at that in a [edited]VIDEO GAME. You have to put more effort into neglecting the information than taking it in.

 

[edited]me, does everyone need to have their [edited] hands held in every [edited]game they play ? Why not just give them their 500bxp just for pressing the "BATTLE" button ? [edited]potatoes.

Issue is, all the game modes favor damage+kills and not actually playing the objective (ANY kind of objective). And this is the result of it ... after 2 evenings of permanent defeats in Airship Escort where my team simply never switched from sniper/damage farming mode to escorting mode I gave up on that mode. Operations are the same. Unless you can finish the operation by simply killing everything on the map and NOT care about the objective, it is fine. In all other scenarios, you need a few people that know what to do.

 

However Random ops will teach this very slowly. You cannot just retry the same operation with fresh memory of what happened before. So very slow learning in many cases is the result ....

[Andrewbassg]

This is actually Weegee's long time wet dream coming true. They ALWAYS wanted to kill off operations, then thanks to some die hard fans efforts (and a lucky moment) we got them back at the cost of frakking them up. Coz Weegee's is too perverted to just do something nice, they have to follow and pursue their own twisted "logics".

Operations, besides being fun modes, also had a nice educational value teaching people how to play certain ships, according to their strengths and weaknesses, how to deal with various red ships and classes, map awareness, the importance of objectives, of team play and how to actually fulfill them. And for that the seemingly repetitive nature of them was of great importance. not to mention that they started at T6, and were uniformed and quite balanced for their tiers.

 

But, of course, that is all past tense, because that's actually Weegee's goal, to reduce the amount of people who know how to play them AND wows generally. And what people who queque up actually see? If they are in a T6 ships will see that T8 is soo much nicer and powerful so ' mommy pls give me money so I could have fun" when this is false and knowing the ops is much more important. But the chance to learn ops is gone now and unless this idiocy is rectified  (of course this is contrary to Weegee's goals so.....nope) people will slowly walk away from this modes.

 

Yeeah, Weegee deserve nothing but utter and complete contempt.

[NewHorizons_1]

58 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

These scenario missions shouldn't pigeon hole players into selecting a limited amount of ships on account of having to factor all the different missions and what's needed to cover all of the different possible scenarios(no pun intended).

Problem is, random operations kinda do.

I tend to pick a ship that can perform well in any operation, eg Cleveland.

I rarely choose a ship that is suited to a particular operation, eg the old meme of Weimar for Narai.

 

3 hours ago, Shepke said:

OR.. At least WG can implement skill based MM just for Operations (though high skilled players can be affected with team composition for a long time)

I think one problem is that operations recently received some attention for WG, and thus brought ops to the attention of many new players.

However, they've still not got much experience of what to do - we were all fairly clueless the first time we played an op.

Some of these players will also still be limited by what ships they have available.

So if they pick a T6 and get dropped into a team where everyone else is in T8s they'll be facing bot ships which have been upscaled from what we learned with when these ops were T6 only.

Hence, they'll be at a massive disadvantage.

Genuine question : how many times has anyone taken a T6 ship into ops since the rework?

 

IMHO, the match maker should never have grouped different tier ships together.

If it had formed teams composed of same tier ships, then newer players in T6 could learn the ropes by playing against bots in ships that don't have artificially inflated stats.

Whereas, more experienced players can use their favourite T8s to take part in a greater challenge of facing a more powerful opposition.

 

Having given the benefit of doubt to new players though, there are players that are genuinely bad.

I was in Narai last week where a Gneisenau sat outside of the atoll, sniping with a spotter plane at the fort in the middle with HE shells.

He scored around 350 base XP.

 

[lup3s]

19 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Operations, besides being fun modes, also had a nice educational value teaching people how to play certain ships, according to their strengths and weaknesses, how to deal with various red ships and classes, map awareness, the importance of objectives, of team play and how to actually fulfill them

 

You value the average player too high.

WG can't force unwilling players to learn or get better.

And that's what Ops look like atm, a bunch of potatoes thinking it's Coop.

 

Another example is the Airship Escort mode. You have to manually select that mode yet still (too) many players play it like Randoms / Standard battles.

 

At one point you'll realise that the majority of the players are just here to "pewpew" and they do not care about winning / objectives / teamplay / ship role / ... .

[lup3s]

15 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

we were all fairly clueless the first time we played an op.

 

And that's why you read the info on the loading screen.

That's why you follow in-game objectives closely, and the minimap even closer.

 

But I guess that's too much to ask of the "thinking man".

[Andrewbassg]

14 minutes ago, lup3s said:

You value the average player too high.

No. I correctly evaluate Weegee's goals and what operations provided before. I see a direct correlation of frakking up ops and the continuous degradation of the quality of the player base.. 

[lup3s]

37 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

No. I correctly evaluate Weegee's goals and what operations provided before. I see a direct correlation of frakking up ops and the continuous degradation of the quality of the player base.. 

 

I also see that correlation, but in the other direction; the abysmal state of the "average player" causing Ops to be unenjoyable.

If I lose 2 Ops in a row, I stop playing for the day. No point in trying to get victories for those useless meatbags that are supposed to be "thinking humans".

[Andrewbassg]

15 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

I also see that correlation, but in the other direction; the abysmal state of the "average player" causing Ops to be unenjoyable.

If I lose 2 Ops in a row, I stop playing for the day. No point in trying to get victories for those useless meatbags that are supposed to be "thinking humans".

And that was precisely my point :( Less wins = less fun = less and less people playing it = Wegge's wet dream of canceling the mode altogether.

 

Tbh ....I subestimated  Weegee's level of resilience and resistance to learn, its hatefulness and outright pervertion. A look at the certain country's society is all what is needed to correctly asses of what material Weegee ls really made of.

[lup3s]

4 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

And that was precisely my point :( Less wins = less fun = less and less people playing it = Wegge's wet dream of canceling the mode altogether.

 

Tbh ....I subestimated  Weegee's level of resilience and resistance to learn, its hatefulness and outright pervertion. A look at the certain country's society is all what is needed to correctly asses of what material Weegee ls really made of.

 

WG can't help potatoes who don't want to learn / improve.

Imo the current Ops provide sufficient information for players to know what to do.

[Ubertron_X]

The problem with Operations is that they are like the usually scripted MMORPG bossfights that need to be studied, memorized and choreographed, albeit in WoWs with the disadvantage of not having a designated single raid leader calling the shots. Now one might assume that anyone capable of learning would eventually manage to understand and beat the script by himself, however if years of raid leadership have taught me anything it is that many people will just never learn anything.

[Andrewbassg]

52 minutes ago, lup3s said:

WG can't help potatoes who don't want to learn / improve.

 Imo the current Ops provide sufficient information for players to know what to do.

Yes but Weegee  removed the possibility to actually learn them. By not being repetitive. As with the new ops......once i deciphered them i had no problems with them. Other then teammates.

However, the point is, one could reliably work out tactics and find the optimal usage for various ships. I remember those, but the newcomers have no way to do that.

Yo, you can call me quite an "expert" on this, (I can recite the timings of KW if you want :)) my favorite ops were Raptor Rescue and Newport so.....

 

[lup3s]

4 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

However, the point is, one could reliably work out tactics and find the optimal usage for various ships. I remember those, but the newcomers have no way to do that.

 

While we have a similar opinion, this I don't agree with. Anyone can learn / test different tactics with different ships, trying to find the optimal route for a specific ship in a specific Operation; but I think that most players simply do not want to learn or get better.

 

:edit:

I don't expect players to learn each Operation by heart, but I do expect humans to be able to remember the basic information of an Operation after playing it two or three times. e.g. the flow of the Operation, secondary objectives, which spawns you'll meet (general composition), etc.

And this is what I simply do not understand, how humans are able to play the same Op over and over again without learning / remembering anything.