dumb subs

[Farheim]

1 hour ago, Andrewbassg said:

again blatantly false

No it's not. Bad positioning is player's fault, not comapny's or sub's or anyone elses.

1 hour ago, WarburtonLee said:

And thats good, getting people away from randoms is that your argument

My argument is that if you don't wanna drink pilk - there are lots of other options. It's not good, it's not bad, it's the reality.

1 hour ago, WarburtonLee said:

Or, should they listen to the audience and not introduce something that wasnt wanted in the first place

I remember when I was leaving in 2021 - peak online was something like 25k ppl on EU server. Now I see like 30-35k on weekends. 

So they listen to the audience. You just happen to be not a part of that audience.

 

[Andrewbassg]

1 minute ago, Farheim said:

No it's not. Bad positioning is player's fault, not comapny's or sub's or anyone elses.

Lolz...... how is the players fault if the vehicle inherently or natively lacks  the means to discover another vehicle?? Coz that was the point (i.e. being defenseless) not what you are trying to construct.

 

So not just false, but blatantly false.

7 minutes ago, Farheim said:

My argument is that if you don't wanna drink pilk - there are lots of other options. It's not good, it's not bad, it's the reality.

 That's not an argument, that's an opinion. A is A not a B.

[Farheim]

4 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

how is the players fault if the vehicle inherently or natively lacks  the means to discover another vehicle?

I'm sorry, no one is paying me to teach you basics of the game and explain you the simplest of things.

[Andrewbassg]

29 minutes ago, Farheim said:

I'm sorry, no one is paying me to teach you basics of the game and explain you the simplest of things.

 

Uh oooh........buddy.... U made my day.!. You are lousy argumenta but a good comedian....

 

Just to make sure that you understand how off you are, positioning has nothing to do with a ship having or not the means to defend itself. Furthermore, positioning is not static,  (ya know ships are moving,) even the floating flyin monke cages care capable of that. I mean the hull coz otherwise requires some brain activity

And even furthermore newsflash even  those pesky red "dots" on the minimap  are capable of that. Ya know....the.....enemy team??? LMAO....

 

So...where u have Ur shows ,I might buy a ticket :)

[Shaka_D]

Absolutely love subs.

 

Even when getting blapped by them in my bb or they outplay me when in my dd. They generally die very quickly, and can't target everybody all the time in every game.

 

Also, and once again, it's all a matter of perspective. I feel radar and cv planes spotting me ruins my dd gameplay, but I've learned to adapt. BB's focussing me in my cruiser for an easy kill scares me off being too aggressive so my gameplay has similarly had to adapt. Now subs scare the living shite out of so many bb's they hide far far far back, allowing my cruiser to get closer. If they increase sub counts to more than two per team I'll be miffed, but at present it's easily adaptable and we need to learn that sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, no matter what class of vessel we play. There are just more chess pieces on the board.

 

My view anyhow, differs from most, but doesn't really matter, right?

[Karasu_Browarszky]

25 minutes ago, Shaka_D said:

Absolutely love subs.

 

Even when getting blapped by them in my bb or they outplay me when in my dd. They generally die very quickly, and can't target everybody all the time in every game.

 

Also, and once again, it's all a matter of perspective. I feel radar and cv planes spotting me ruins my dd gameplay, but I've learned to adapt. BB's focussing me in my cruiser for an easy kill scares me off being too aggressive so my gameplay has similarly had to adapt. Now subs scare the living shite out of so many bb's they hide far far far back, allowing my cruiser to get closer. If they increase sub counts to more than two per team I'll be miffed, but at present it's easily adaptable and we need to learn that sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, no matter what class of vessel we play. There are just more chess pieces on the board.

 

My view anyhow, differs from most, but doesn't really matter, right?

 

How do you counter the subs, then?

[Andrewbassg]

36 minutes ago, KhorneFlake said:

He obviously is.

Lolz...... If he didn't understand what I've said, it means that he is a kid, which is also clear from the answer, he gave to me. Anyway I'm done arguing coz......I won't argue with a kid :).

36 minutes ago, KhorneFlake said:

But thats WGs fault, too, of course...

Whatever concerns the game IS and unquestionably so, Weegee's fault, because they and they only have the means to change/fix/broke things.

We players, we can't do neither of that.

Everything that's good about the game is Weegee and everything that is bad, is also them.

 

[WingedHussar_Adler]

Alle 6/2/2023 alle 01:11, Balance_Airlines ha scritto:

I can barely do any damage in any gun DD when they shotgun me. Not to mention the curb on those freaking torpedoes. So yeah....much fun. [CONTENT REMOVED BY MODERATION]

ltp?

can you please explain in plane language, how non brain stroked player can get shtguned with subs torpedos...how ??? dear god how? afk? sitting behind iceland lobing it and been spoted and have no idea that maybee sub is spoting left/right of you?

 

i mean really....shotguned in dd....you are joking right? this is some kind of funny post*

[LeaveMeAloneCV_Sub]

I don’t understand how can someone defend subs…if they have spotting, they can come to your face and blow you like melon.

You can be behind 3 of your teammates and sub will nuke you from 2 Km away and then disappear.
Sub player have to be completely brain dead to get killed by other ships.

 

Subs aren’t diversity but illness in this game.

[Arakus]

I wouild say the most players who are negative against subs or even cv don't know how to play them.

Maybe try it a bit you you learn the weakness of this types.

Subs are not so difficult to handle and are only a real danger when the player is a specialist in playing them.

And a specialist in any ship will be a danger, no matter if he is in sub, DD, BB or any other type of ship.

 

For myself i like playing DD the most and don't think Subs are so dangerous.

 

[Shaka_D]

3 hours ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

 

How do you counter the subs, then?

That depends on a few things now, doesn't it? And if we had to go into a detailed analysis of all the options we'll be writing walls of text over pages and pages, as we would for any of the classes we're more accustomed to playing.

 

The question should be 'How well versed are you in sub gameplay, i.e. have you played them extensively enough to know their weaknesses?'. It's until you get owned in them a lot that you learn their vulnerabilities. And there are many. People complain because they've been targeted by a new unfamiliar class of vessel and haven't yet learned how to play against them, and then they have false consensus that subs are ubiquitous in every game and every part of the map to the point you can't move without being targeted by one...which is, as mentioned, false consensus. Sometimes in battles you find yourself in a situation against another class of vessel you know you have the lower hand, whether a cruiser verse a bb, a dd versus a cruiser, a bb versus a cv, etc etc. Sometimes, no matter what you try, you're going to die. Why is it any different versus subs? Has your team melted away and left you alone versus a sub? Have you overextended and find yourself too close and you hadn't noticed the last point the sub was spotted? Are your team mates pinging the map where the sub was seen and reporting it in chat? Is your cv player spotting for you, dd's using their rpf? We can't always have the easy game and subs cannot stay submerged forever.

[WarburtonLee]

5 minutes ago, Shaka_D said:

That depends on a few things now, doesn't it? And if we had to go into a detailed analysis of all the options we'll be writing walls of text over pages and pages, as we would for any of the classes we're more accustomed to playing.

 

The question should be 'How well versed are you in sub gameplay, i.e. have you played them extensively enough to know their weaknesses?'. It's until you get owned in them a lot that you learn their vulnerabilities. And there are many. People complain because they've been targeted by a new unfamiliar class of vessel and haven't yet learned how to play against them, and then they have false consensus that subs are ubiquitous in every game and every part of the map to the point you can't move without being targeted by one...which is, as mentioned, false consensus. Sometimes in battles you find yourself in a situation against another class of vessel you know you have the lower hand, whether a cruiser verse a bb, a dd versus a cruiser, a bb versus a cv, etc etc. Sometimes, no matter what you try, you're going to die. Why is it any different versus subs? Has your team melted away and left you alone versus a sub? Have you overextended and find yourself too close and you hadn't noticed the last point the sub was spotted? Are your team mates pinging the map where the sub was seen and reporting it in chat? Is your cv player spotting for you, dd's using their rpf? We can't always have the easy game and subs cannot stay submerged forever.

Subs is like if there was only Shimas vs BBs. Bad Shimas would find ways to die (or even just spotted in the first place) still. For that reason, there are plenty of counters to Shimas, hydro, radar, other DDs, the skill everyone gets that tells you are detected etc. What do you mean by overextending, what if the sub pushes your flank sumerged, pops up right in front of you and shotgun you, never spotted. How is that overextending? It happened on Islands of Ice or whatever its called, i pushed from North side to the eastern cap, to get behind that island. I was in Schlieffen, with brisk and speedflag btw, starting close to the cap. Suddently a enemy sub popped up on OUR side of that central island 2km from me, shotgunning me and crippling my ship. How should i have countered that? By not moving towards the objectives i guess, pre-kite right from the spawn? He died ofcourse, but thats beside the point. What if that sub instead was a normal ship so everyone could fight it, more hp to be farmed, more fighting, more fun. 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

20 minutes ago, Shaka_D said:

That depends on a few things now, doesn't it? And if we had to go into a detailed analysis of all the options we'll be writing walls of text over pages and pages, as we would for any of the classes we're more accustomed to playing.

 

The question should be 'How well versed are you in sub gameplay, i.e. have you played them extensively enough to know their weaknesses?'. It's until you get owned in them a lot that you learn their vulnerabilities. And there are many. People complain because they've been targeted by a new unfamiliar class of vessel and haven't yet learned how to play against them, and then they have false consensus that subs are ubiquitous in every game and every part of the map to the point you can't move without being targeted by one...which is, as mentioned, false consensus. Sometimes in battles you find yourself in a situation against another class of vessel you know you have the lower hand, whether a cruiser verse a bb, a dd versus a cruiser, a bb versus a cv, etc etc. Sometimes, no matter what you try, you're going to die. Why is it any different versus subs? Has your team melted away and left you alone versus a sub? Have you overextended and find yourself too close and you hadn't noticed the last point the sub was spotted? Are your team mates pinging the map where the sub was seen and reporting it in chat? Is your cv player spotting for you, dd's using their rpf? We can't always have the easy game and subs cannot stay submerged forever.

 

Generally speaking, it depends on the quality of the sub player. I mostly get into trouble when I'm in a DD or a cruiser trying to do ASW for my team. Sometimes in a BB if I 'overextend' or am careless enough not to hang out further back.

[JohnMac79]

Alle 6/2/2023 alle 01:11, Balance_Airlines ha scritto:

I can barely do any damage in any gun DD when they shotgun me. Not to mention the curb on those freaking torpedoes. So yeah....much fun. [CONTENT REMOVED BY MODERATION]

This was exactly my thoughts about CV when you were griefing me a few days ago. I remember thinking at the time how ironic your name was.

[JohnMac79]

13 hours ago, Farheim said:

Yea. Will you be so kind to help me find word 'Surface' here? My grasp of the English is not that strong unfortunately, so I might have missed it.

 

Well lets be honest, it also doesnt include the word ‘fantasy’, nor is ir categorised as a fantasy game, but trying to force 1940s subs with submerged speeds capable of ~50 knots into the game, is the absolute definition of fantasy.

 

13 hours ago, WarburtonLee said:

wg said they had no future plans to bring subs in. I dont have the source, but i guess a google search probably finds it

WG didnt just say they ‘have no plans’ to bring subs to the game, they said ‘there will be no subs in the game’, period. They said they do not fit the gameplay, but its amazing how that same gameplay they talk about, can suddenly be sacrificed in the name of money…

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Farheim said:

If you are caught with your pants down that's kind of your problem, you know? Learn to position yourself right

 

Ah the gold standard of comedy when a CV main tell people to ‘position better’…

 

You can do better than that, tell them to ‘just dodge’ and to use ‘simple manoeuvres’ too…

 

11 hours ago, Farheim said:

I remember when I was leaving in 2021 - peak online was something like 25k ppl on EU server. Now I see like 30-35k on weekends.

 

So with the massive influx of CIS transfers on top of the influx from both the NA and SEA servers to the EU server, the player numbers are only 5-10k higher?

[OldPappy]

On 2/6/2023 at 2:43 AM, Farheim said:

Whatever makes DDs suffer is good for the game.

How so?

[Varian_Dorn]

3 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

WG didnt just say they ‘have no plans’ to bring subs to the game, they said ‘there will be no subs in the game’, period. They said they do not fit the gameplay, but its amazing how that same gameplay they talk about, can suddenly be sacrificed in the name of money…

 

 

Gee, companies, or even just people in general for that matter, say one thing but at some point do the exact opposite?

Oh my, what a novel concept! This has NEVER EVER happened before! The outrage! People and companies changing their minds! How can THIS be? Attrocity!

 

Do you even live on the same planet? That bloody video is over 7 years old. Can you yourself claim you haven´t changed one bit over 7 years? And if so... how damn stiff does that stick up yours have to be?

 

Regardless, this discussion, as well as the often pointless "arguements" by the haters (which mostly boil down to "I dont wanna"), is and has been futile ever since subs made it to the tech trees.

Dear haters, you lost. Go find a good shrink if it bothers you this much.

[Andrewbassg]

51 minutes ago, Varian_Dorn said:

Gee, companies, or even just people in general for that matter, say one thing but at some point do the exact opposite?

 Oh my, what a novel concept! This has NEVER EVER happened before! The outrage! People and companies changing their minds! How can THIS be? Attrocity!

 

Oh.......and who dafaq pushed for the concept of... "community?? Well, if we are a communit,y then the dishonesty within can be rightfully called out

 

If not, then who TF gives a crap about some (belo)russian company?? Yeah there you go.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

1 hour ago, Varian_Dorn said:

Gee, companies, or even just people in general for that matter, say one thing but at some point do the exact opposite?

Oh my, what a novel concept! This has NEVER EVER happened before! The outrage! People and companies changing their minds! How can THIS be? Attrocity!

 

Do you even live on the same planet? That bloody video is over 7 years old. Can you yourself claim you haven´t changed one bit over 7 years? And if so... how damn stiff does that stick up yours have to be?

 

Regardless, this discussion, as well as the often pointless "arguements" by the haters (which mostly boil down to "I dont wanna"), is and has been futile ever since subs made it to the tech trees.

Dear haters, you lost. Go find a good shrink if it bothers you this much.

 

The video says subs will not work for gameplay reasons. Quote "doesn't fit with the gameplay". There's no plainer way of putting it. While in the seven years the meta has degraded, the major game mechanics themselves have not, unless someone has information to the contrary. None of the changes they've made since then are relevant for the submarine issue, or if they are, they have not provided a solution but compounded on the problems.

 

The two major mistakes WG has made are the CV rework and the implementation of the subs. Period.

[Ubertron_X]

13 hours ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

How do you counter the subs, then?

 

Not dying during the first 5min of the game generally is a good idea, especially as your own subs anti-sub consumable takes approx. 5min to come online.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

4 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

 

Not dying during the first 5min of the game generally is a good idea, especially as your own subs anti-sub consumable takes approx. 5min to come online.

Meaning you rely on your own sub to sort out the problem while laying back yourself?

[Ubertron_X]

11 hours ago, LeaveMeAloneCV_Sub said:

I don’t understand how can someone defend subs…if they have spotting, they can come to your face and blow you like melon.

You can be behind 3 of your teammates and sub will nuke you from 2 Km away and then disappear.
Sub player have to be completely brain dead to get killed by other ships.

 

Subs aren’t diversity but illness in this game.

Not defending subs either but after having played some I can easily tell you that surviving in a sub and being effective are two entirely seperate issues. The argument I always hear is that "muh, just drive up to the BB and shotgun it from 2km" however and unless we are talking about a lone ship with few tools in its kit has anyone any idea how difficult that actually is?

 

There is surface spotting by enemy DDs and subs, there is radar, there is hydro, there is plane spotting by CV's and even from the utility aircraft of surface ships in addition to actually playing T10 simply because the lower tier subs usually lack underwater speed as well as having an opponent that is not paying attention at all and/or does not make any attempt to dodge (not just your torps, but your ship as a whole).

 

Disclaimer: I am far from an expert in subs, however as someone who has tested a bit of their gameplay (trying to stay undetected by not using ping etc) and that has been messed up by even a single spotter plane I can tell you that apart form homing torps from a certain range it is not especially easy to be effective in a sub. Testing was mostly done T6 to T8.

[Ubertron_X]

15 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

Meaning you rely on your own sub to sort out the problem while laying back yourself?

 

Well, worst case you have 4 to 6 ASW bombers on top of you when you try to go for capital ships and get spotted. I found this out the hard way a couple of times when I tried to approach the usual cluster of BBs and was "randomly" spotted by enemy sub, CV planes or similar. So yeah, when you have a friendly sub in front of you try not to die early, especially the German subs are very good at sniffing out enemy subs.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Just now, Ubertron_X said:

 

Well, worst case you have 4 to 6 ASW bombers on top of you when you try to go for capital ships and get spotted. I found this out the hard way a couple of times when I tried to approach the usual cluster of BBs and was "randomly" spotted by enemy sub, CV planes or similar. So yeah, when you have a friendly sub in front of you try not to die early, especially the German subs are very good at sniffing out enemy subs.

 

So.. in essence we have the sub which relies on a set of gimmicks like the ping/homing torpedoes along with exaggerated capabilities set against ships with limited countermeasure availability and also essentially relying on a gimmick, the ASW planes. WG game development at its finest....

[Ubertron_X]

11 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

So.. in essence we have the sub which relies on a set of gimmicks like the ping/homing torpedoes along with exaggerated capabilities set against ships with limited countermeasure availability and also essentially relying on a gimmick, the ASW planes. WG game development at its finest....

The problem with subs is that you can play them in two distinct ways. The first one is to play them like a DD, which usually is very good for the team, however will often not yield in good results for you due to simple fact that once you beat the enemy frontline, the backline usually runs away. The second way is to play them as a backline mauler, fully ignoring all enemy ships apart of the backline of capital ships, which will both annoy your team (as the enemy sub can run free too) as well as the recipients of your "love" and will usually yield good damage. So the problem is a class designed to "lone wolf" in a team game.