Thanks, but no, nope and all the others.

[Andrewbassg]

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/general-news/brawls-120-1/

 

 

Lolz.......yeah sure. Hit the road Wedgie.....

[Miscommunication_dept]

Same tier as ranked silver. Can’t see why I’d play it.

[Yedwy]

Looks like testing run to allow subs in Ranked again

[Andrewbassg]

41 minutes ago, Miscommunication_dept said:

Same tier as ranked silver. Can’t see why I’d play it.

Aactually is a wee bit more perverted. One team could end up with a sub and the other don't. Same with Cv's. In a 6v6 line up...

Yeeeah like I said just a wee little bit more.......

[Andrewbassg]

10 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Looks like testing run to allow subs in Ranked again

Yep. Weegee is really pushing his idiocies.....

[Figment]

11 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Looks like testing run to allow subs in Ranked again

Quite possible, though it will depend on the size of the maps on whether one might consider it even feasible.

 

If the idea of the brawl is a smaller map than usual in Ranked, then it might work given the shorter distances and confined spaces would make it easier to detect and overwhelm a sub and CV. In a Ranked map there's likely too much area to cover though, I don't see the combination of CV and sub working there due to the logistics and time constraints.

[meuhbat]

Yesterday we had a sub and the enemy team had a lexington instead. The sub did nothing and died (190 base xp), we still won though...

[Miscommunication_dept]

27 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Aactually is a wee bit more perverted. One team could end up with a sub and the other don't. Same with Cv's. In a 6v6 line up...

Yeeeah like I said just a wee little bit more.......

That sounds balanced.

[Andrewbassg]

17 minutes ago, Figment said:

Quite possible, though it will depend on the size of the maps on whether one might consider it even feasible.

 

If the idea of the brawl is a smaller map than usual in Ranked, then it might work given the shorter distances and confined spaces would make it easier to detect and overwhelm a sub and CV. In a Ranked map there's likely too much area to cover though, I don't see the combination of CV and sub working there due to the logistics and time constraints.

Except that a sub can comfily just sit and deny ANY push. Just spam pings and torps, overwhelm the DCP of babbies and ...yeah.

Not to mention that battery depletion is of far less importance than in randoms

[Figment]

13 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Except that a sub can comfily just sit and deny ANY push. Just spam pings and torps, overwhelm the DCP of babbies and ...yeah.

Not to mention that battery depletion is of far less importance than in randoms

If they try to overwhelm DCP in a confined area, there ought to be a lot of ASW on top of it. I'd not use ping at all if I was a sub in there, too hazardous in a confined space.

 

As for sitting below water all match... They'll have to go under pretty much at the start. That might just force certain subs to run out of air. Which in a brawl map can be a significant issue as being somewhere central conflicts with not getting spotted on small Brawl maps and would make it hard to exert any control and survive as a sub when dive time does run out.

 

So I'm not too worried about that. Besides, likely sufficient islands to block line of sight in a brawl match given the maps we've had in the past. The main problem I see is having to locate it if you need a kill to win as the timer runs out. But might be deserved win for that team then.

[Bland_42]

10 minuti fa, Figment ha scritto:

If they try to overwhelm DCP in a confined area, there ought to be a lot of ASW on top of it. I'd not use ping at all if I was a sub in there, too hazardous in a confined space.

 

As for sitting below water all match... They'll have to go under pretty much at the start. That might just force certain subs to run out of air. Which in a brawl map can be a significant issue as being somewhere central conflicts with not getting spotted on small Brawl maps and would make it hard to exert any control and survive as a sub when dive time does run out.

 

So I'm not too worried about that. Besides, likely sufficient islands to block line of sight in a brawl match given the maps we've had in the past. The main problem I see is having to locate it if you need a kill to win as the timer runs out. But might be deserved win for that team then.

Little anecdote, yesterday with my Hawke (currently grinding the line) I had a sub comfortably sitting below 5 km for minutes, keeping pinging a sending torps to me... never ever spotted, because in the small map I was spotted from other ships. The "ping mark" was utterly useless, my DCs never hit him. At the end he was forced to emerge, and then I sunked him in seconds.

He hitted me with few torps, but the real problem was that he effectively made very hard to me maneuver against the enemy's surface ships and trying to evade his torps at the same time.

 

To sum up, he wasn't a great player (at least didn't give the feeling) but still a real nuisance to deal with.

Made my match unenjoyable.

[Andrewbassg]

20 minutes ago, Figment said:

If they try to overwhelm DCP in a confined area, there ought to be a lot of ASW on top of it. I'd not use ping at all if I was a sub in there, too hazardous in a confined space.

 

A quick look at the sonar stats gives us 11 and 12.5 km range. Best ASW is what 10? Also there is a not small deterrent effect, of the class itself, on the will to push.

20 minutes ago, Figment said:

As for sitting below water all match... They'll have to go under pretty much at the start. That might just force certain subs to run out of air. Which in a brawl map can be a significant issue as being somewhere central conflicts with not getting spotted on small Brawl maps and would make it hard to exert any control and survive as a sub when dive time does run out.

 

I didn't said that. I said  managing diving time is of far less importance. And going under at the start of the match is a bad call.

 

Anyway, I'm not here to convince anybody, either way, I'm just saying that I'm not going to touch the mode, even with a ten foot pole.

 

[lovelacebeer]

Yeh easy pass for me, does not look like it will be very fun.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

2 hours ago, Yedwy said:

Looks like testing run to allow subs in Ranked again

Guaranteed! 

[ReDiR20]

Another day, another whinner who can't learn the game even after 23k battles. The players are indeed the biggest problem of the game

[Siagor]

8 minutes ago, ReDiR20 said:

Another day, another whinner who can't learn the game even after 23k battles. The players are indeed the biggest problem of the game

 

Are you capable to grasp the difference between "I can learn this" and "I don't like this"?

[Figment]

2 hours ago, Bland_42 said:

Little anecdote, yesterday with my Hawke (currently grinding the line) I had a sub comfortably sitting below 5 km for minutes, keeping pinging a sending torps to me... never ever spotted, because in the small map I was spotted from other ships. The "ping mark" was utterly useless, my DCs never hit him. At the end he was forced to emerge, and then I sunked him in seconds.

He hitted me with few torps, but the real problem was that he effectively made very hard to me maneuver against the enemy's surface ships and trying to evade his torps at the same time.

 

To sum up, he wasn't a great player (at least didn't give the feeling) but still a real nuisance to deal with.

Made my match unenjoyable.

There is an element of learning where to aim these depthcharges, but this sort of thing can indeed happen. And regardless of whether you need to learn to predict sub location better, it can certainly be annoying. But it's not necessarily something that can't be overcome. Nuisance is indeed probably the right word for it. But rather have a sub that keeps pinging and missing torps than one that knows how to approach and ambush. :)

[Figment]

3 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

A quick look at the sonar stats gives us 11 and 12.5 km range. Best ASW is what 10?

Max ASW range is a bit more I think?

 

But on average it's between 6 and 10km I'd say.

 

What's a sub going to do with 12km pings though? I don't take those serious anyway... If these are used at max range and an issue for someone, then you're doing something wrong as the target tbh. You don't NEED to deactivate a ping most the time. You just want to avoid a near broadside angle or them going straight at your rear. Everything else should be entirely avoidable without breaking the ping at this point.

Quote

Also there is a not small deterrent effect, of the class itself, on the will to push.

Yeah people fearmongered and attribute doomsday skills to it, that's their problem tbh. If you get surprised by a BB popping up in front as a cruiser and immediately give a full broadside trying to steer away, don't blame the BB for taking advantage either, right?

Quote

I didn't said that. I said  managing diving time is of far less importance. And going under at the start of the match is a bad call.

It is, but in Brawls when the map is too small, they may have little choice. A Cachelot's 6.4km surface concealment range easily covers some cap circles in those brawls. I've had it where certain DDs couldn't stay hidden on the opposite side of the cap in Brawl and they had 5.8km concealment and a Salmon has 5.96km, a U-190 has 5.61km (and has the battery advantage for submerging).

 

So sure, they could stay far away and ineffectively spam some torps and ping a bit, but how is that going to contribute to winning? That sub needs to get in closer to have an impact. Anything launched from over 6km can often easily be dodged (unless DCPed and sluggish). In which case I'd find the U-190 likely to be the most commonly used in a cramped environment. Those have fewer hitpoints though, so when spotted likely die faster.

Quote

Anyway, I'm not here to convince anybody, either way, I'm just saying that I'm not going to touch the mode, even with a ten foot pole.

That I can imagine. I'm not convinced of their assymmetrical MM being fair or fun either.

[Bland_42]

15 minuti fa, Figment ha scritto:

There is an element of learning where to aim these depthcharges, but this sort of thing can indeed happen. And regardless of whether you need to learn to predict sub location better, it can certainly be annoying. But it's not necessarily something that can't be overcome. Nuisance is indeed probably the right word for it. But rather have a sub that keeps pinging and missing torps than one that knows how to approach and ambush. :)

Problem was that, until he emerged, I had no clue other than the ping-wave. He was around a strait between two sandbanks, but if he was in the strait or in front of one of the sandbanks... no idea. Thanks to WG placing casual RNG on this.

He was unspotted and waited to be near me before starting the attack, so I had no chance to avoid the engage.

I had a way to avoid most of the torps because was in a fast BB, but in a cruiser (less homing deactivation distance) or a slow BB would be difficult to not take in a lot more.

[Verblonde]

8 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

Hit the road Wedgie...

This. It's not like I don't have plenty of things to do that are a lot more fun than playing against submarines.

It'll be a shame to - eventually - lose Ranked as an option though, assuming submarines in Brawls will be used as the excuse to crowbar the damn things into Ranked.

[Figment]

31 minutes ago, Bland_42 said:

Problem was that, until he emerged, I had no clue other than the ping-wave. He was around a strait between two sandbanks, but if he was in the strait or in front of one of the sandbanks... no idea. Thanks to WG placing casual RNG on this.

He was unspotted and waited to be near me before starting the attack, so I had no chance to avoid the engage.

I had a way to avoid most of the torps because was in a fast BB, but in a cruiser (less homing deactivation distance) or a slow BB would be difficult to not take in a lot more.

Hmm. I would suggest you try subs in coop to get a better feel for the distance between your sub and the wave. I can't tell exactly how you aimed, but sounds like you threw it on top of the wave rather than behind it? Because then it might have fell short of where the sub was.

 

Typically the wave is about a submarine length in front of the sub towards the direction in which the ping was cast. So when it seems somewhat stationary, I tend to aim behind it and usualy get a hit as most (especially bad) sub players stick around on the same spot, stationary.

 

Toss one behind the wave (nearest rectangle edges barely touching the wave) and one in front (the second likely case is it's moving towards you and just fired torps or is about to fire torps), check which one hits. If you aim on top of the wave, you'll tend to throw it in front of the sub and it'll barely touch it if at all when it's moving back or even if stationary. Check for oil spills and new pings to see if it's moving and what speed and in which directly (if it stupidly keeps pinging, it should give you a decent sense of interval and positional change between previous points, allowing you to pinpoint where it would be next), lead the target by approximately ten seconds, keep in mind that it'll have to turn back towards you if you're still its target, or away if it is keen on using its rear torpedoes (typically they turn towards you however for the next volley of torps).

 

 

With a cruiser you shouldn't need to get hit if you've got decent maneouvrability (some speed is essential, especially if you wish to steer into them as you can change your speed to throw off the lead).

 

The replay below showcases a Cherbourg hunt from yesterday in fairly open waters at the far west end of the map. I was a (poor sub player) sub's main target for the entire first half of the match (starting at my first engagement with the Schroder), but I could basically ignore it till I was ready to hunt it as it kept its distance. Cherbourg has 7km air ASW and the wave stayed at about 9km, just too far out. Not too far away to attempt an approach though, but circumstances should be right first. Hence I allowed it to keep going for pings on me, to ensure I knew where it was, but could evade its torps. Ammoracked Schroder with a lot of luck for a quick early kill. I then aborted one attempt to overrun the sub due to the Hipper getting in my side, but got succesful on the next while the Hipper got itself killed as I circled back for a new attempt (used the island as a staging ground I could use against ping and torps, but never stopped to camp as that'd been potential suicide). Did take one torp from the front that graced the side, I think because I hit E instead of R, which made for a split second difference in reaction and steering delay. Think I could have steered clear of that attack too if I didn't make that error. All in all I barely had to DCP. The hydro was useful of course, but to me it's an extra.

 

Basically, first clear the region from ranged threats to you while you minimize the sub's impact, then engage the sub at a slight diagonal so it can't ping->dumbfire you head on (where a slight change in course widens your profile or going straight means torps hit you anyway) and avoid giving it too much of your broadside, where you can't minimize your profile anymore. The goal is to go from a semi-narrow to a narrow profile as the cut-off distance is reached and the ping broken: lower speed, turn in, speed up immediately angle, while throwing ASW wherever you think the torps came from. In this case, I chased it to the point it was spotted, then got a direct hit on the ASW. It was a pretty quick kill, despite being in the sub's favoured terrain of open water.

 

Mind, I've done this with cruisers with onboard ASW as well. But in those cases I'd like the sub to be drawn closer to me so they might get one or two volleys off at most. I don't want to give it too many reload chances overall.

 

20230131_010657_PFSC208-Cherbourg_44_Path_warrior.wowsreplay

[Andrewbassg]

3 hours ago, Figment said:

Max ASW range is a bit more I think?

  

But on average it's between 6 and 10km I'd say.

 

Umm......at T8?? Well idk.... which one? I don't play babbies....

 

Yeaah approx.

3 hours ago, Figment said:

What's a sub going to do with 12km pings though? I don't take those serious anyway... If these are used at max range and an issue for someone, then you're doing something wrong as the target tbh. You don't NEED to deactivate a ping most the time. You just want to avoid a near broadside angle or them going straight at your rear. Everything else should be entirely avoidable without breaking the ping at this point.

Yeah people fearmongered and attribute doomsday skills to it, that's their problem tbh. If you get surprised by a BB popping up in front as a cruiser and immediately give a full broadside trying to steer away, don't blame the BB for taking advantage either, right?

 

Ermm.... you missing the point. It is resource draining tool. The thing is, you don't know what the sub gonna do. Ya know when Dd's say that XYZ has used damacon? Plus you have a LOT of other things to do, avoiding the sub is NOT the objective. For example Weegee has fukked up cruiser play real good by removing the disp debuff from camo's  so survival is a challenge by itself.

 

Except ofc for Cv's

 

3 hours ago, Figment said:

Yeah people fearmongered and attribute doomsday skills to it, that's their problem tbh. If you get surprised by a BB popping up in front as a cruiser and immediately give a full broadside trying to steer away, don't blame the BB for taking advantage either, right?

 

I played enough ranked testing to know, see and experience, how a sub can break up a push. And subs were waay closer to being called balanced vs how they are now. Since then they received  just a shitton of mindless, unjustifiable and dishonest buffs so......no thanks.

 

3 hours ago, Figment said:

It is, but in Brawls when the map is too small, they may have little choice. A Cachelot's 6.4km surface concealment range easily covers some cap circles in those brawls. I've had it where certain DDs couldn't stay hidden on the opposite side of the cap in Brawl and they had 5.8km concealment and a Salmon has 5.96km, a U-190 has 5.61km (and has the battery advantage for submerging).

 

But the maps being smallish, also induce much more  and much more lethal consequences. The thing is Wedgie is hellbent to transform the game  into a more lethal ( therefore quick) and less "think about" "something" robbing it from one of its main appeals.

 

Its understandable, they want subs in the game, but they cant fit them in, so therefore they frakk the game instead. Lolz... " just sail monke your ship around, shoot some ships, enjoy the view, the explosions, (yours too) and be happy, grin and say ugh ugh. What, thinking?? Nah monke don't do that, here's some banana. Now be a good boi monke and do as told".....

 

With the added hidden benefit of not being obliged and  needed to think about balance, just spam mindlessly new lines to "cash in".

3 hours ago, Figment said:

So sure, they could stay far away and ineffectively spam some torps and ping a bit, but how is that going to contribute to winning? That sub needs to get in closer to have an impact. Anything launched from over 6km can often easily be dodged (unless DCPed and sluggish). In which case I'd find the U-190 likely to be the most commonly used in a cramped environment. Those have fewer hitpoints though, so when spotted likely die faster.

 

Lolz.....nah. Anyway call me completely uninterested.

[SeaWolf7]

How do you brawl with a sub?

Actually how the F do you brawl IN a sub?

 

 

[DeletedUser]

I first quit playing Brawl because i felt it is a mode only intended to sell ships not for the sake of the gameplay. Now i will stop playing ranked. Tried 12 hours to advance to gold but no chance at all. Can't compensate for noobs and potatoes.

[Ronchabale]

Thanks, but no, nope and all the others.

 

Yeah..