some skills dont belong in this game

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 20 Stunden, Karkong_the_Impaler sagte:

My powers of divination tell me you're a highly unsuccessful BB main. Does that sound about right?

You're aura is pulsing. Are you in the beyond? I think you are. 

[LiveWire___]

21 hours ago, Cyberstorm1981 said:

a word of some skills ....aimbot is cheating because it gives to much info where to lead ......but a skill who give you a warning that a salvo of 4 or more km a shot is fired is not cheating ???an experenced player abuse that skill till the last....if you are in battle and you shoot of 20  km a full broadside yoshino the moment you fire he will turn and all your shots miss....remove that pesky skill its same as cheating .....same as rpf same [edited] if you go on smoke it means you want to go dark not that an enemy get information if you are moving or stopping and can see wich direction you come from or will go......and aimbot is not allowed what is the diffrence ?????the lead is not always 100% sure for a hit because the shipt can turn and change speed....my opinion about some skills the 4km salvo warning indicator should be allowed in lower tiers for help for new comers but in t8,9,10 its should be off......... i dont use that skill because i learned to use my camera too look around and see the shells incoming and than manouvre.....in the higher tiers you learn to play without it. 

 

Why is it always users who can barely type cohesive sentences that whinge like this?

 

1: Learn to spell, punctuate, and create meaningful sentences.

 

2: Then, lay out your argument / query / idea in a rational, well thought-out manner.

 

3: Post. Then, be prepared to repeat step 2 a number of times until the discussion is resolved. 

 

 

[Capn_Redwolf]

After a couple of salvos at a cruiser learn how they tend to evade and send your next salvo there.

Alternatively a little trick I have learned for hitting speed juking DDs or cruisers is to fire just one turret to get them to react and then follow it up with the rest of your volley once they have committed to a turn or stop/acceleration.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

3 hours ago, Johnny_Moneto said:

You're aura is pulsing. Are you in the beyond? I think you are. 

Could be, could be! I've just got a ghostly inspiration - globules made from healing stone! Guranteed sugar free and even vegan. Depending on the mineral, it's also undeniably good for your magnesium or calcium intake. Or if you use, say, Lópezite, you can even cure stupid permanently.

 

3 hours ago, Capn_Redwolf said:

Alternatively a little trick I have learned for hitting speed juking DDs or cruisers is to fire just one turret to get them to react and then follow it up with the rest of your volley once they have committed to a turn or stop/acceleration.

Also waiting untill the target starts to turn - most players won't stop their turn, thinking that they will evade the salvo because of their turn. Then it's just a matter of aim and RNG. Turns are by the way telegraphed by the minimap direction line...

Or you press X and aim manually (also check the circle on the minimap). If you haven't locked him in, he gets no alert (and you get worse dispersion). If there is someone nearby, aim at him and shoot the other target with normal dispersion and he still gets no warning (although the target lock has become a bit... erratic recently)

 

Decent players don't blindly react to the incoming fire alert, they look where the shots are going to land - you can dodge salvos like you dodge torps with an agile ship.

 

And basically - if you're sniping from 20km away, you're either entirely useless or the game just started.

Sniping someone who is not distracted by, say, the iminent danger of getting blapped when he shows broadside is very hard in the first place. What a sniper is looking for is positioning himself in a way so he can shoot the broadside of ships that engage his team nose in, which mean he basically needs to position himself in the middle of the map to be able to shoot at the flanks.

That is not a good position to be in if you're a bad player.

[mdjmcnally]

Quite frankly anyone that sails in a straight line constant speed DESERVES to get slapped senseless by a salvo.

 

however players SHOULD learn pretty quickly about turning and adjusting speed, and not just potatoing in a straight line.

 

as such I do not see a problem with the skill.

[tocqueville8]

On 1/29/2023 at 5:17 PM, Cyberstorm1981 said:

a skill who give you a warning that a salvo of 4 or more km a shot is fired is not cheating ???an experenced player abuse that skill till the last....if you are in battle and you shoot of 20  km a full broadside yoshino the moment you fire he will turn and all your shots miss....remove that pesky skill its same as cheating

 

Interestingly, when a couple of years ago some player asked how to stop getting Dev Struck in his Trento, and I suggested he take that skill, some other user, since disappeared from the forum, castigated me for "ruining that guy's captain build", even though he had a 10-pointer and we were about to enjoy a free reset in the infamous rework.

 

That's just to say that some people consider IFA beneath them, but I still take it religiously on every cruiser after over 9000 games.

[Figment]

Never liked RPF, since it's reducing the ability of an enemy unit to have the element of surprise. Hence I also choose not to use it and tend to opt for something else, I like it when someone manages to outplay me with creating a proper ambush.  it also feels like you're not using a crutch to derive the location of the enemy (in that sense see-through mountains radar is much worse though and I wish there was a type of radar reflective smoke you could pop too (shorter duration, consumes one of your smokes)). Particularly if it's the type of unit that relies on ambushes to get anything done versus an opponent with greater firepower.

 

But, it's not a wall hack or some such and as it's in game working as intended with significant constraints (only shows one approximate direction, not distance to target), it is by definition not 'cheating'.

It would however be nice to have a counter to it, like a 2pt skill that allows you to "go silent" when within 8km of enemy ships, removing your vulnerability to RPF specifically in close quarters. Since it'd be a rather specific skill that's not constantly useful (whereas RPF is), a secondary benefit like increased detection radius of submerged submarines would for instance make it a very interesting skill for DDs.

 

 

 

 

As for the 4.5km shooting skill... It increases situational awareness a little. But nothing you can't get from in game vigilance already. Don't see how this would be cheating. Besides, assume I'm being fired on anyway.

[TheNubination]

[edited]laughable people telling him to "git gud" wen he's literally bitching about a skill that lowers the skill ceiling. 

I'd remove all those "hax" skills. Remove the Sub location thing, remove the skill OP is talking about, remove RPF. All is nonsense.  Heck even as a CV main I'd trade all my CVs for the removal of Radar or at last Radar and Hydros ability to penetrate island cover. 

[TheNubination]

6 hours ago, Figment said:

Never liked RPF, since it's reducing the ability of an enemy unit to have the element of surprise. Hence I also choose not to use it and tend to opt for something else, I like it when someone manages to outplay me with creating a proper ambush.  it also feels like you're not using a crutch to derive the location of the enemy (in that sense see-through mountains radar is much worse though and I wish there was a type of radar reflective smoke you could pop too (shorter duration, consumes one of your smokes)). Particularly if it's the type of unit that relies on ambushes to get anything done versus an opponent with greater firepower.

 

But, it's not a wall hack or some such and as it's in game working as intended with significant constraints (only shows one approximate direction, not distance to target), it is by definition not 'cheating'.

It would however be nice to have a counter to it, like a 2pt skill that allows you to "go silent" when within 8km of enemy ships, removing your vulnerability to RPF specifically in close quarters. Since it'd be a rather specific skill that's not constantly useful (whereas RPF is), a secondary benefit like increased detection radius of submerged submarines would for instance make it a very interesting skill for DDs.

 

 

 

 

As for the 4.5km shooting skill... It increases situational awareness a little. But nothing you can't get from in game vigilance already. Don't see how this would be cheating. Besides, assume I'm being fired on anyway.

 

Radar/Hydro are literal wallhacks, but RPF is somehow worse because in a mutual fight of two people with RPF, the element of surprise is often nearly completely negated from the start of the game. It has its own quirks like playing chicken then with torps but thats not as fun IMO.

[Figment]

23 minutes ago, TheNubination said:

Radar/Hydro are literal wallhacks, but RPF is somehow worse because in a mutual fight of two people with RPF, the element of surprise is often nearly completely negated from the start of the game. It has its own quirks like playing chicken then with torps but thats not as fun IMO.

Yeah, I wish these detection systems were designed in a more constrained fashion as well, with more variety in how they are used (advantages and disadvantages). If it had been up to me:

Radar:

- Long distance reach (up to 16km), but blocked view by any obstructions, with just some map spotting on the edges of hills rather than full vision.

- Blocked by certain types of reflective smoke (more diversity in smoke for DDs, radar echoes)

- Spots submarines at periscope depth

- Circular sweep

 

-> Avoid by getting behind objects or out of range

 

Passive hydrophone (listening to engine sounds carried by the water):

- 5-7km distance, but only in a waterbased path to the target. So yes, it could see around islands, but it would not reach over, around and behind every obstruction next to you if sailing to that point would take more than 5-7km.

- Speed of the unit would determine if it's on map (<50% throttle frontal, or is in reverse) or fully visible (>50% throttle) or even remaining invisible (0% throttle).

- Spots torpedoes

- Listens for MOVING submarines too (map at distance, fully within 4km)

- Constant, continuous vision during use

 

-> Avoid by laying still or getting out of range.

 

Active ASDIC sonar (sending out a ping):

Pretty much as hydrophone, but:

- Intermittent pulse, spots stationary objects too

- Loses track of objects - other than torpedoes! - in between pulses (more like the system used by the submarines to detect surface ships now)

- Range varies with tier

 

-> Avoid by getting behind objects or out of range

 

EDIT: Guess I'll leave this one to exist:

 

Radio position finder

- Works in sections of the compass

- Gives rough estimate of direction, but not of heading or distance

Optional:

- Can be negated by going radio silent (lose scouting ability for others on your team)

- Can be negated with captain skill at close range

[TheNubination]

23 minutes ago, Figment said:

Yeah, I wish these detection systems were designed in a more constrained fashion as well, with more variety in how they are used (advantages and disadvantages). If it had been up to me:

Radar:

- Long distance reach (up to 16km), but blocked view by any obstructions, with just some map spotting on the edges of hills rather than full vision.

- Blocked by certain types of reflective smoke (more diversity in smoke for DDs, radar echoes)

- Spots submarines at periscope depth

- Circular sweep

 

-> Avoid by getting behind objects or out of range

 

Passive hydrophone (listening to engine sounds carried by the water):

- 5-7km distance, but only in a waterbased path to the target. So yes, it could see around islands, but it would not reach over, around and behind every obstruction next to you if sailing to that point would take more than 5-7km.

- Speed of the unit would determine if it's on map (<50% throttle frontal, or is in reverse) or fully visible (>50% throttle) or even remaining invisible (0% throttle).

- Spots torpedoes

- Listens for MOVING submarines too (map at distance, fully within 4km)

- Constant, continuous vision during use

 

-> Avoid by laying still or getting out of range.

 

Active ASDIC sonar (sending out a ping):

Pretty much as hydrophone, but:

- Intermittent pulse, spots stationary objects too

- Loses track of objects - other than torpedoes! - in between pulses (more like the system used by the submarines to detect surface ships now)

- Range varies with tier

 

-> Avoid by getting behind objects or out of range

 

EDIT: Guess I'll leave this one to exist:

 

Radio position finder

- Works in sections of the compass

- Gives rough estimate of direction, but not of heading or distance

Optional:

- Can be negated by going radio silent (lose scouting ability for others on your team)

- Can be negated with captain skill at close range

I like some of these ideas, especially the sweeping long range radar that gives DDs a chance to dodge inbetween sweeps. 

But none of this will ever happen and we yo uand me and everyone else here are idiots wasting their time mostly talking moot things. 

[VedranSeaWolf359]

I actually never take this skill because I produce more stress to me knowing that 3 or 4 ships firing on me don't help me to survive just stress!

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

4 hours ago, TheNubination said:

[edited]laughable people telling him to "git gud" wen he's literally bitching about a skill that lowers the skill ceiling.

 

Yes, one could remove that skill. If you at the same time remove, say, overmatch and maybe remove the light cruiser citadels, too.

(can anyone still remember DDs with citadels? Hilarious).

Again, I could probably type slower, but that might not help: This skill balances out surprise devstrikes by useless sniper BBs at unengaged targets.

[TheNubination]

18 minutes ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

 

Yes, one could remove that skill. If you at the same time remove, say, overmatch and maybe remove the light cruiser citadels, too.

(can anyone still remember DDs with citadels? Hilarious).

Again, I could probably type slower, but that might not help: This skill balances out surprise devstrikes by useless sniper BBs at unengaged targets.

Nobody complained about the skill ceiling, are you illiterate?  The point was the OP doesn't need to "git gud" when literally bitching about a skill that aids him in situational awarness. 

The rest of your post is inane apples and oranges comparisons. 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

12 hours ago, TheNubination said:

Nobody complained about the skill ceiling, are you illiterate?  The point was the OP doesn't need to "git gud" when literally bitching about a skill that aids him in situational awarness. 

The rest of your post is inane apples and oranges comparisons. 

You may want to read what you type.

[Seraphice]

Considering that this has been brought up a couple times in this discussion; when you look at most competitive players, they don't really utilize this skill very often.
It's a skill that is almost exclusively picked in the situation where you are left with 1 point and there is nothing else to spend it on (e.g. you dont need turret traverse or expert loader).

relying blindly on Incoming Fire Alert is not good. You may as well be making huge turns for an incoming cruiser or DD salvo. What it can do is warn you to go and look around for which salvos are incoming.

 

In general it still cannot substitute situational awareness.

 

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera