So is that that u so much wanted WG???

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, WarburtonLee said:

You cant prevent idiots from dying, no matter how many times you say so. If your shima insist on smoking up in front of a Desmo, you cant do crap about it, while the enemy DD is smart and baits your radars etc

• The enemy has these DD too
• With many DD, there is a good chance you have a backup DD, with few DD, there is probably none on your flank

[Figment]

2 hours ago, WarburtonLee said:

Ok, so alot of DDs isnt bad for cruisers? Its the worst for cruisers, they can prevent you from ever going dark when you need it if theyre any good. Thats the thing. This game is all about vision control.

It’s great exp for cruisers that have HE or SAP, hydro and/or radar. If you support your DDs, going dark isn’t your problem.

2 hours ago, WarburtonLee said:

And why exactly do you like alot of DDs if youre in a cruiser?

I like hunting them?

2 hours ago, WarburtonLee said:

Or if you are in a BB? Maybe you like to have nothing to shoot at all game in your Cruiser, while being permaspotted from 2 different angles but i dont.

Yeaaah, because with 5 DD there are no 7 other enemies.

 

What I like is that it allows more aggressive posturing closer to the front, in support of your DDs. More chance of brawling.

 

Going dark is fine and all, but not the only way to play a BB.

2 hours ago, WarburtonLee said:

You seem to think i want NO DDs in the game, thats not what im saying.

Can you please stop making stupid strawman assumptions!?

 

You want 3 DD, you said that time and again. Why would I presume no DD?

 

What you want is a single DD to dispatch in front of you so the flank is yours instantly.

2 hours ago, WarburtonLee said:

Im mainly a DD and cruiser player. 3 is fine i think, one for each part of the map. Too many DDs isnt great for any of those two classes, and also BBs. Some people say Schlieffen counters DDs for example, it absolutely dont. What Schlieffen needs, is not being spotted until it ambushes someone, or it basically dies instantly. (Thats why CVs are so broken, makes any ambush and use of terrain impossible) Good dd just keeps you spotted, or if gunboat, stay out of 12.5 and have the easiest kill ever. Its basically the same as in wot, too many lights isnt any fun, not for the lights, not for anyone else. One example of not any fun is previous season ranked t10. I liked to play Zorkiy sometimes, but unfortunately the MM mirrors a super-dd, and the problem comes when its another Zorkiy. The maps where basically so that it is only one cap/flank its viable to play such ship. So both Zorkiys went there every time, pre-kited fighting eachother, trading, healing, go into CE, back at fighting eachother. NOT any fun. We could actually fight eachother for 10 minutes, in and out, while neither would give up and retreat, becouse that would give the "home cap" to the enemy. Meanwhile, if that Zorkiy wasnt there, i could fight the enemy BBs and cruisers witch actually IS fun.

Again, this is all your personal subjective idea of fun. You are very self-centered.

2 hours ago, WarburtonLee said:

When the MM put a Dalarna or Yamagiri instead, then i could actually play the game, instead of pointless trading with the same ship all game.

You hear yourself? “me me me.” I can. I want. I could. I (don’t) like.

 

The worst designers design only for themselves.

2 hours ago, WarburtonLee said:

The difference is, if it was a supership other than Zorkiy, i could push through and start fighting capital ships, even though i know the DD is around spotting me. If he opens up, takes the fight, i fought the DD. But you cant push through another Zorkiy doing the same thing, both will end up (if he is any good that is) kiting away...

More and more “I can” “I could”.

 

You dislike being countered. I get it. This isn’t about what is good for the game, but your prefered playstyle, your prefered enemies and farming and your chance optimalization.

[WarburtonLee]

30 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

• The enemy has these DD too
• With many DD, there is a good chance you have a backup DD, with few DD, there is probably none on your flank

With all the DDs around that you want, what is more fun shooting at? DDs or BBs? As a DD i like fighting BBs, second cruisers. As a Cruiser, i like fighting BBs, second cruisers. As a BB, i like fighting Cruisers, second BBs. In absolutely no ship, do i enjoy fighting DDs. Im not saying im not doing it, and its ofcource the right strategy to get rid of the DDs, but fun, hell no. AND, secondary point, when you have worked your [edited]off to get rid of the DDs, and you are ready for the prize of being able to farm the BBs, the game is usually over. So you spent the game, fighting the DDs and hoping to get to the BBs in the end for some big numbers, and you already won on points. Maybe you like fighting the DDs, but i dont in any ship. In gunboats, its annoying to be permaspotted by shima trying to torp you all game, in shima its annoying to have the gunboat on your flank never letting you through etc. In a cruiser its annoying knowing exactly where you are spotted from, pinging the map but your DD doesnt care.

[Figment]

1 minute ago, WarburtonLee said:

With all the DDs around that you want, what is more fun shooting at? DDs or BBs? As a DD i like fighting BBs, second cruisers. As a Cruiser, i like fighting BBs, second cruisers. As a BB, i like fighting Cruisers, second BBs. In absolutely no ship, do i enjoy fighting DDs. Im not saying im not doing it, and its ofcource the right strategy to get rid of the DDs, but fun, hell no. AND, secondary point, when you have worked your [edited]off to get rid of the DDs, and you are ready for the prize of being able to farm the BBs, the game is usually over. So you spent the game, fighting the DDs and hoping to get to the BBs in the end for some big numbers, and you already won on points. Maybe you like fighting the DDs, but i dont in any ship. In gunboats, its annoying to be permaspotted by shima trying to torp you all game, in shima its annoying to have the gunboat on your flank never letting you through etc. In a cruiser its annoying knowing exactly where you are spotted from, pinging the map but your DD doesnt care.

Wow, you actually just admitted again this whole argument is about you being able to get into easy farming mode and hating the challenges of dogfights…

[WarburtonLee]

1 minute ago, Figment said:

It’s great exp for cruisers that have HE or SAP, hydro and/or radar. If you support your DDs, going dark isn’t your problem.

I like hunting them?

Yeaaah, because with 5 DD there are no 7 other enemies.

 

What I like is that it allows more aggressive posturing closer to the front, in support of your DDs. More chance of brawling.

 

Going dark is fine and all, but not the only way to play a BB.

Can you please stop making stupid strawman assumptions!?

 

You want 3 DD, you said that time and again. Why would I presume no DD?

 

What you want is a single DD to dispatch in front of you so the flank is yours instantly.

Again, this is all your personal subjective idea of fun. You are very self-centered.

You hear yourself? “me me me.” I can. I want. I could. I (don’t) like.

 

The worst designers design only for themselves.

More and more “I can” “I could”.

 

You dislike being countered. I get it. This isn’t about what is good for the game, but your prefered playstyle, your prefered enemies and farming and your chance optimalization.

I am absolutely certain that more people enjoy fighting Capital ships, than DDs. And therefore i suggest limiting them to 3.

You might think otherwise, but i belive you are wrong.

[WarburtonLee]

Just now, Figment said:

Wow, you actually just admitted again this whole argument is about you being able to get into easy farming mode and hating the challenges of dogfights…

No, i say if you win your dogfights you should be able to go for the prize of farming, not endless hordes of DDs

[WarburtonLee]

11 minutes ago, Figment said:

You dislike being countered. I get it. This isn’t about what is good for the game, but your prefered playstyle, your prefered enemies and farming and your chance optimalization.

No i dont dislike being countered i dislike when there is A LOT of them how hard is that to grasp? I like to being able to take out the DD on my flank so then i could start to have some fun as the dogfight isnt. And i know how to dogfight in a DD, it still isnt fun. I guess most like big numbers aswell, and you aint getting those fighting only DDs, even though its the right thing, gives exp etc. etc. 40k salvos to enemy Cruisers, or BBs is also fun, 5k overpens to DDs isnt, even though it may be more important in the situation.

[ColonelPete]

27 minutes ago, WarburtonLee said:

With all the DDs around that you want, what is more fun shooting at? DDs or BBs?

As a DD? DD!

As a CL/CA? DD!

Less shatters, more direct damage, more reward.

28 minutes ago, WarburtonLee said:

AND, secondary point, when you have worked your [edited]off to get rid of the DDs, and you are ready for the prize of being able to farm the BBs, the game is usually over.

BB farming is no prize, it is chore. It takes a long time, is boring, is not well rewarded, since it has less influence on the outcome of the battle. Too many shatters and hoping for fires.

 

[WarburtonLee]

4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

As a DD? DD!

As a CL/CA? DD!

Less shatters, more direct damage, more reward.

BB farming is no prize, it is chore. It takes a long time, is boring, is not well rewarded, since it has less influence on the outcome of the battle. Too many shatters and hoping for fires.

 

Well then we have different opinions on whats fun, nothing wrong with that

[Figment]

3 hours ago, WarburtonLee said:

I am absolutely certain that more people enjoy fighting Capital ships, than DDs. And therefore i suggest limiting them to 3.

You might think otherwise, but i belive you are wrong.

Let’s assume there are more players who enjoy that. There is some truth to the fact the MM is filled to the brim with BBs. Personally I think there are three reasons for this:

 

1. Name recognition of BBs is higher than of smaller ships

2. (In)feasibility of other classes facing BBs. The relative weakness makes people feel it is not viable to use say cruisers often enough.

 

3. A lot of people gravitate towards BBs to get a sense of power from these highly error forgiving, heavy hitting, high endurance, long time surviving units, which always have range and firepower and an inherent raw power advantage over lighter units with less endurance and more skill requirements. Those people however don’t actually get that satisfaction from fighting other BBs as much as they do from citadelling cruisers.

 

But does that mean these are the only people to cater to? What about those people who enjoy stealth, brawls, fast paced dogfights? People have different preferences and diverse fleets offer diverse gameplay.

 

I don’t think the BB only brawl was that huge a success in that sense as many people found it a boring campfest where they were afraid to push as they’d burn down or get hammered. It got repetitive fast. Facing varieties of ships - and thus varied MM combinations - keeps the game  more fresh every time people play. Replayability and variety is key here. Particularly as people get used to playing the same maps over and over quickly as the matches are over relatively fast at <20min a match, bringing more variety is quite important (whether WG goes about that the right way is a different question).

 

Personally I think most people enjoy being able to apply their preferred type of playstyle, which differs from each individual.

3 hours ago, WarburtonLee said:

No, i say if you win your dogfights you should be able to go for the prize of farming, not endless hordes of DDs

So how is it good for the BB player that it only has one DD on each flank standing in the way of him/her being farmed by it as you so eloquently put it?

3 hours ago, WarburtonLee said:

No i dont dislike being countered i dislike when there is A LOT of them how hard is that to grasp?

But that’s what I’m saying: you want this counterplay period between DDs to be as short as possible. See the quote below:

Quote

I like to being able to take out the DD on my flank so then i could start to have some fun as the dogfight isnt. And i know how to dogfight in a DD, it still isnt fun.

This is you saying I will tolerate it once, but I want to move on quickly.

 

For others that DD vs DD bit is actually enjoyable cat and mouse and about outsmarting the other as for both sides it can be a challenge.

 

It’s just not your personal preference. You want to move on from it to what you consider the main course.

Quote

I guess most like big numbers aswell, and you aint getting those fighting only DDs, even though its the right thing, gives exp etc. etc. 40k salvos to enemy Cruisers, or BBs is also fun, 5k overpens to DDs isnt, even though it may be more important in the situation.

I’m guessing we see things differently as I look at these numbers as percentages of a ship’s health and you look at it as separate big numbers.

 

Now, my average damage output on my cruisers is often a bit lower because I don’t want to farm damage, instead I specifically hunt for DDs at the start of a

match and put myself in harms way relatively often, doing a high percentage of damage to DDs.

 

It’s high risk, high reward play that I enjoy (hence why I am too careless with Gearing too, take Thunderer into medium to short range with AP loaded and generally avoid staying at range in combat). If the raids against DDs are successful, my side gets a big advantage. If not, my side stands to lose an above average player relatively quickly. But to me, seeing I dealt a couple crushing blows to the enemy for my team to take advantage of is very enjoyable. Unless it ends up in a throw when only bad players remain and they make errors I wouldn’t have in their position. But hey, to each their own.

 

Again, I think 3DDs is fine as the average. However, 5 DDs is fine too and a combination of types allows for a lot of teamplay supporting value.

[WarburtonLee]

21 minutes ago, Figment said:

So how is it good for the BB player that it only has one DD on each flank standing in the way of him/her being farmed by it as you so eloquently put it?

 

Not gonna comment on the rest, just this one. I agree to some extent on some of your points. 

But here you contradict yourself, earlier in the topic you said that i wanted to make it more BB friendly with less light units. How come it now suddently is more BB friendly with more of them?

[MementoMori_6030]

Well, 2 CV, 4 DD, 3 SS per side are also kinda... interesting.

 

( This happened at 12 AM, in broad daylight. )

 

Chat:

[ReverendFlashback]

Personally I like killing subs :)

[Seraphice]

On 1/29/2023 at 9:06 AM, webaake said:

Didn't WG promise a cap on numbers of Subs and DD's in a game? I see WG as very reliable and good at keeping promises, so it's a mystery.

 

 

 

 

(Not)

There are soft and hard limits in our game for matchmaking.

E.g. there is a softcap for 1 CV and 2 submarines. however this restriction is lessened the longer people wait in the queue. it's possible one or more players in that battle were waiting for several minutes, especially considering the time of the OP I assume this game took place after midnight.

There is however a hardcap for 1 CV at TX.
 

the same goes for BBs and DDs - they have a softcap of 5 and 4 respectively.
The only class without any such restrictions is cruisers.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[CSS_modding_1]

On 1/29/2023 at 8:22 AM, WingedHussar_Adler said:

it looks great...where is the problem?

 

wy do the make cruisers 

if no one plays them 

only one cruiser here and he is first to get wasted 

[ColonelPete]

33 minutes ago, CSS_modding_1 said:

wy do the make cruisers 

if no one plays them 

only one cruiser here and he is first to get wasted 

Cruisers are played more often than DD...

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

7 hours ago, Seraphice said:

the same goes for BBs and DDs - they have a softcap of 5 and 4 respectively.

Wait what...? 6BBs per side are quite common, so that softcap gets overmatched for the lack of another word by the insane amount of babbies in the queue? So when is it actually working?

[WarburtonLee]

20 hours ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

Well, 2 CV, 4 DD, 3 SS per side are also kinda... interesting.

 

( This happened at 12 AM, in broad daylight. )

I mean, people who defend this and thinks its good for the game must be special. What a shitshow. Carriers and subs i dont even comment on, but not in ONE of the ships in that game would it be any fun

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 1 Minute, WarburtonLee sagte:

I mean, people who defend this and thinks its good for the game must be special. What a shitshow.

Well, I have added the chat reaction right now. 

[WarburtonLee]

2 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

Well, I have added the chat reaction right now. 

I guess @Figment- would have fun if he was one of the capital ships there. Because more light units is now better for BBs and cruisers according to his last answer to me.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

On 1/31/2023 at 9:37 PM, WarburtonLee said:

I am absolutely certain that more people enjoy fighting Capital ships, than DDs. And therefore i suggest limiting them to 3.

You might think otherwise, but i belive you are wrong.

 

Perhaps this has something to do with the traditional relative overpopularity of the capital ships, mostly BB's. Wouldn't go as far as to claim that CV's are popular around here....

 

On 1/31/2023 at 10:06 PM, ColonelPete said:

BB farming is no prize, it is chore. It takes a long time, is boring, is not well rewarded, since it has less influence on the outcome of the battle. Too many shatters and hoping for fires.

 

 

It is very effective in a cowardly sort of way when done from the cover of smoke, and very annoying from the BB point of view.

[Figment]

On 2/1/2023 at 12:21 AM, WarburtonLee said:

Not gonna comment on the rest, just this one. I agree to some extent on some of your points. 

But here you contradict yourself, earlier in the topic you said that i wanted to make it more BB friendly with less light units. How come it now suddently is more BB friendly with more of them?

1 hour ago, WarburtonLee said:

I guess @Figment- would have fun if he was one of the capital ships there. Because more light units is now better for BBs and cruisers according to his last answer to me.

I guess I have to remind you:

 

- YOU argue that more DDs than one is bad for DDs. The reason YOU gave for this is because YOU can't get to your prefered farming of BBs once their one DD defense line has been breached.

- Ergo YOU argue that with more DDs, BBs are farmed less, thus saver.

- Ergo YOU argue that more DDs is better for BBs.

 

 

Of course you also argued that with more DDs, enemy ships are farmed more after losing a DD.

 

So who is contradicting? Or are we in fact both talking about situational circumstances?

[Karasu_Browarszky]

As a little reminder here, at least before the subs were unleashed on the unsuspecting player population, if one team had BBs and the other one had DDs left at the end, the team with the DDs won unless they played it very badly.

[ColonelPete]

5 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

It is very effective in a cowardly sort of way when done from the cover of smoke, and very annoying from the BB point of view.

It is indeed annoying, but not effective.

Compare shooting a DD for a minute with shooting a BB for a minute. The DD will most likely be sunk after a minute.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

It is indeed annoying, but not effective.

Compare shooting a DD for a minute with shooting a BB for a minute. The DD will most likely be sunk after a minute.

 

IF the DD is hit effectively enough. The BB is burning as a literally lit up target. It is not even necessarily just the DD(s) that are firing at it at this time. If the target BB gets multiple AP hits while on fire, the result of the 'fun' engagement becomes very predictable, very fast.

 

Spoiler

I know what the colonel is going to say, let's see if I am right.