Some TIX-VIII ships proposal (for fun)

[TheKaramelka]

Well.. lets look:

Georgia = Iowa hull+Vermont gun

Sun Yat Sen = Sovetsky Soyuz hull+Kremlin guns (nerfed shells)

Illinois = Iowa hull + Des Moines gun

Tulsa = Oregon sity hull + Des Moines gun

Pommern = Friedrich der Grosse hull + Bismarck guns

Marlborough = Vanguard hull + King George V gun

Mainz = Admiral Hipper hull + Nürnberg gun

Cheshire = Albemarle hull + Goliath gun

Collingwood = Nelson hull + Conqueror gun

Dalian = Harbin gull + Zorkiy gun

 

Look what we can do:

Iwami hull + Yamato gun

Lion hull + St. Vincent gun

Jean Bart + République gun

Brindisi hull +Duca degli Abruzzi gun

Charles Martel hull + Henri IV gun

 

Spoiler

Japanese battleship Oki, Tier IX:

In general, this is not an invention. A-140 projects were enough. One was similar to our Iwami - 8 guns of 460 mm caliber

Spoiler

Displacement: 61768 t

Plating: 32 mm

Deck: 32 mm

Armor belt: 356 mm

Length: 262 m

Hit points: 78 300

Torpedo protection: 20%

Main armament

4х2 460 mm/45 Type 94 in a twin turret

Reload time: 30 sec

Firing range: 24 km

180 degree turn time: 60 sec

Sigma: 1,8

HE – 460 mm HE Type0

     Projectile weight: 1360 kg

     Max damage: 7 300

     Fire Chance: 35%

     Armor penetration: 77 mm

     HE initial velocity: 805 m/s

AP – 460 mm AP/APC Type91

     Projectile weight: 1460 kg

     Max damage: 14 800

     AP initial velocity: 780 m/s

Secondary Armament

3x3 155 mm/60 3rd Year Type in a triple turret

      Reload time: 12 sec

      Max Damage: 2 600

      Fire Chance: 10%

      Armor penetration: 26 mm

      Firing range: 7,3 km

      HE initial velocity: 925 m/s

8x2 100 mm/65 Type 98 on a Model A mount

      Reload time: 3 sec

      Max Damage: 1 700

      Fire Chance: 6%

      Armor penetration: 30 mm

      Firing range: 7,3 km

      HE initial velocity: 1000 m/s

AA defense:

8x2 100 mm/65 Type 98 on a Model A mount

12x3 25 mm/60 Type 96 on a triple mount

24x2 25 mm/60 Type 96 on a twin mount

18x1 25 mm/60 Type 96 on a single mount

Maximum speed: 28,2 kts

Turning circle radius: 880 m

Rudder shift time: 15,7 sec

Surface detectability: 16,4 km

Air detectability: 12,6 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Repair Party

Slot 3 - Spotting Aircraft/Catapult Fighter

British battleship Temeraire, Tier IX:

The game features a variant of Lyon, using 419 mm artillery developed in the 20s. However, several more guns were developed at the same time: 381/50, 419/45 (such as on Lyon, Duncan and Conqueror), 419/50, 457/45 (Such as on Tunderer and St. Vincent). Therefore, it is quite realistic to assume that since the 419-mm artillery was placed on the Lions, they could well have placed the 457-mm artillery.

Spoiler

Displacement: 46400 t

Plating: 32 mm

Deck: 32 mm

Armor belt: 381 mm

Length: 239,3 m

Hit points: 71 500

Torpedo protection: 31%

Main armament

3х2 457 mm/45 Mk.II in a turret

Reload time: 26 sec

Firing range: 19,4 km

180 degree turn time: 30 sec

Sigma: 2,0

HE – 457 mm HE Mk IIa

     Projectile weight: 1814 kg

     Max damage: 7 300

     Fire Chance: 63%

     Armor penetration: 76 mm

     HE initial velocity: 757 m/s

AP – 457 mm AP Mk IIa

     Projectile weight: 1506 kg

     Max damage: 14 900

     AP initial velocity: 762 m/s

Secondary Armament

8x2 133 mm/50 QF Mk.I on an RP10 Mk.I mount

      Reload time: 6,7 sec

      Max Damage: 1 900

      Fire Chance: 8%

      Armor penetration: 22 mm

      Firing range: 7 km

      HE initial velocity: 792 m/s

AA defense:

8x2 133 mm/50 QF Mk.I on an RP10 Mk.I mount

10x6 40 mm/56 OQF Mk.IX on a Mk.VI mount

6x2 40 mm/56 OQF Mk.X on a STAAG Mk.2 mount

Maximum speed: 30 kts

Turning circle radius: 830 m

Rudder shift time: 15,8 sec

Surface detectability: 14,0 km

Air detectability: 10,5 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Specialized Repair Teams

Slot 3 - Spotting Aircraft/Catapult Fighter

French battleship Paris, Tier IX:

The project for the completion of the battleship Clemenceau, with its re-equipment with more powerful guns of 431 mm caliber.

Spoiler

Displacement: 39744 t

Plating: 32 mm

Deck: 32 mm

Armor belt: 330 mm

Length: 248 m

Hit points: 66 400

Torpedo protection: 33%

Main armament

2х3 431 mm/50 Mle 1940 in a turret

Reload time: 24 sec

Firing range: 23,5 km

180 degree turn time: 36 sec

Sigma: 1,8

HE – 431 mm HE OEA Mle 1940

     Projectile weight: 1321 kg

     Max damage: 6 300

     Fire Chance: 48%

     Armor penetration: 72 mm

     HE initial velocity: 840 m/s

AP – 431 mm AP OPfK Mle 1940

     Projectile weight: 1321 kg

     Max damage: 14 500

     AP initial velocity: 840 m/s

Secondary Armament

4х3 152 mm/55 Mle 1930 on an Mle 1936 mount

      Reload time: 12 sec

      Max Damage: 2 200

      Fire Chance: 12%

      Armor penetration: 25 mm

      Firing range: 8 km

      HE initial velocity: 870 m/s

6х2 100 mm/55 Mle 1945 on a CAD Mle 1945 mount

      Reload time: 3 sec

      Max Damage: 1 400

      Fire Chance: 5%

      Armor penetration: 17 mm

      Firing range: 7 km

      HE initial velocity: 855 m/s

AA defense:

4х3 152 mm/55 Mle 1930 on an Mle 1936 mount

6х2 100 mm/55 Mle 1945 on a CAD Mle 1945 mount

14х2 57 mm/60 Mle 1951 on an ACAD Mle 1948 mount

Maximum speed: 32 kts

Turning circle radius: 850 m

Rudder shift time: 15,8 sec

Surface detectability: 16,2 km

Air detectability: 11,1 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Repair Party

Slot 3 - Engine Boost

Italian cruiser Verona, Tier IX:

In general, this is a historical project and not a hypothetical one like in our game. In reality, it was the only light cruiser variant with 12 152 mm guns. But in the game they decided to replace them with 203 mm to extend the branch

Spoiler

Displacement: 18746 t

Plating: 27 mm

Deck: 27 mm

Armor belt: 150 mm

Length: 213,9 m

Hit points: 43 500

Torpedo protection: 13%

Main armament

4х3 152 mm/55 Model 1934 on a Model 1934 mount

Reload time: 10,5 sec

Firing range: 16,9 km

180 degree turn time: 24 sec

Sigma: 2,0

SAP – 152 mm proiettili SAP

     Projectile weight: 50 kg

     Max damage: 3 850

     Armor penetration: 42 mm

     HE initial velocity: 910 m/s

HE – 152 mm proiettili HE

     Projectile weight: 44,3 kg

     Max damage: 2 100

     Fire Chance: 7%

     Armor penetration: 25 mm

     HE initial velocity: 995 m/s

Secondary Armament

90 mm/50 Model 1939 in a turret

      Reload time: 4 sec

      Max Damage: 2 000

      Armor penetration: 26 mm

      Firing range: 7 km

      SAP initial velocity: 860 m/s

Torpedo armament
2x4 533 mm tubo lanciasiluri

       Reload ime: 96 seconds

       Torpedo type: 533 mm Si 270 N
       Damage: 13 900

       Flood chance: 230%
       Speed: 56 knots
       Range: 13,5 km
       Detection range: 1,1 km

AA defense:

90 mm/50 Model 1939 in a turret

8x1 65 mm/64 Model 1939 on a Model 1939 mount

14x2 37 mm/54 Model 1938 on a Model 1938 mount

2x4 37 mm/54 Breda Model 1939 on a quadruple mount

Maximum speed: 37,8 kts

Turning circle radius: 730 m

Rudder shift time: 10,4 sec

Surface detectability: 14,7 km

Air detectability: 9,1 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Exhaust Smoke Generator

Slot 3 - Spotting Aircraft/Catapult Fighter

Slot 4 - Repair Party

French cruiser Charlemange, Tier VIII:

A hypothetical version of the C5A3 project with the replacement of the 240 mm armament of the main caliber, removed from the Danton battleship

Spoiler

Displacement: 128747 t

Plating: 27 mm

Deck: 27 mm

Armor belt: 100 mm

Length: 185 m

Hit points: 39 700

Torpedo protection: 18%

Main armament

3х2 240 mm/55 Schneider Mle 1930 in a turret

Reload time: 9,5 sec

Firing range: 16,9 km

180 degree turn time: 32,7 sec

Sigma: 2,0

HE – 240 mm HE OEA Mle 1939

     Projectile weight: 220 kg

     Max damage: 3 400

     Fire Chance: 22%

     Armor penetration: 40 mm

     HE initial velocity: 845 m/s

AP – 240 mm AP OPfK Mle 1939

     Projectile weight: 220 kg

     Max damage: 6 200

     AP initial velocity: 845 m/s

Secondary Armament

5х2 100 mm/55 Mle 1945 on a CAD Mle 1945 mount

      Reload time: 3 sec

      Max Damage: 1 400

      Fire Chance: 5%

      Armor penetration: 17 mm

      Firing range: 7,6 km

      HE initial velocity: 855 m/s

Torpedo armament
2x3 550 mm tube lance-torpilles

       Reload ime: 96 seconds

       Torpedo type: 550 mm 24V Mle 2
       Damage: 18 400

       Flood chance: 311%
       Speed: 75 knots
       Range: 8 km
       Detection range: 1,4 km

AA defense:

5х2 100 mm/55 Mle 1945 on a CAD Mle 1945 mount

4x4 40 mm Bofors on a Mk.2 mount

4x2 40 mm Bofors on a Mk.1 mount

16x1 20 mm Oerlikon on a Mk.4 mount

Maximum speed: 32,5 kts

Turning circle radius: 690 m

Rudder shift time: 9,8 sec

Surface detectability: 13,6 km

Air detectability: 7,7 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Defensive AA Fire/Hydroacoustic Search

Slot 3 - Spotting Aircraft/Catapult Fighter

Slot 4 - Engine Boost

Slot 5 - Main Battery Reload Booster

 

This is my personal proposal and not the fact that ships will ever appear in the game or my concept will be taken into attention!

Thank you for your attention!

[Panocek]

32 minutes ago, TheKaramelka said:

In general, this is not an invention. A-140 projects were enough. One was similar to our Iwami - 8 guns of 460 mm caliber

Given Yat Sen received quite the nerfbat just to justify 30mm overmatch with one pair of barrels less, I don't see 8x460mm flying at tier 9, not unless you make her effectively a cripple.

Izumo but with three twin 460 would be less unlikely? Same applies with 3/4 of a Thunderer proposal. 3/4 of a Republique but its Jean Bart could work as tier 10, given all firepower at the front is bigger boon than raw stats would imply.

 

42 minutes ago, TheKaramelka said:

A hypothetical version of the C5A3 project with the replacement of the 240 mm armament of the main caliber, removed from the Danton battleship

At first I'm reminded of Cheshire, which isn't particularly inspiring ship, and she's tier lower.

[TheKaramelka]

35 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Given Yat Sen received quite the nerfbat just to justify 30mm overmatch with one pair of barrels less, I don't see 8x460mm flying at tier 9, not unless you make her effectively a cripple.

Well, if you forgot, 460 mm pierces 32 mm plating without rebound, unlike 457 mm

35 minutes ago, Panocek said:

At first I'm reminded of Cheshire, which isn't particularly inspiring ship, and she's tier lower.

Yes there is a typo

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, TheKaramelka said:

Well, if you forgot, 460 mm pierces 32 mm skin without rebound, unlike 457 mm

I'm perfectly aware of that, which is advantage thats not going to fly at tier 9, WG have one 32mm-overmatch-capable scambox bait already at this tier.

[TheKaramelka]

16 minutes ago, Panocek said:

I'm perfectly aware of that, which is advantage thats not going to fly at tier 9, WG have one 32mm-overmatch-capable scambox bait already at this tier.

Well let's compare Musashi and Oki

Hit Points are worse for Oki

in armor - Musashi is head and shoulders above Oki

Sigma Oki is the same with fewer guns (8 versus 9), but at the same time, the speed of rotation of the towers is better (although still 60 seconds). Also Oki shoots not so far (24 km vs. 26.5 km)

The secondary is much stronger in Oka than in Musashi

Air defense is stronger with Oki
Maneuverability is an undisputed victory for Oki
Like and concealment

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, TheKaramelka said:

Well let's compare Musashi and Oki

in armor - Musashi is head and shoulders above Oki

Sigma Oki is the same with fewer guns (8 versus 9), but at the same time, the speed of rotation of the towers is better (although still 60 seconds). Also Oki shoots not so far (24 km vs. 26.5 km)

The secondary is much stronger in Oka than in Musashi

 

Are you aware Iwami has better citadel protection than Yamato class? Musashi have T10 grade hp, true, but Oki have still healthy amount of hp at tier 9

60s turret traverse have Yamato herself at tier 10, Musashi have old 72s

24km vs 26km range argument is lul

"much better secondaries and AA" so you basically want T10 ship pressed into tier 9 again.

 

To make 460mm guns "balanced" at tier 9, you would need:

35s or longer reload

worse AP shells with reduced shell damage (and penetration?)

72s turret traverse

18-19km range tops

AA and secondaries go away, at the best you get "early war" set up with minimal number of 25mm and older type 127mm dual purpose

perhaps 26mm plating instead 32mm, maybe torpedo belt/hp reduction

 

Basically you'd have to make absolutely miserable ship to "justify" 460mm guns and associated 32mm overmatch at tier 9. Musashi was, by all metrics, a shitty Yamato, yet she proved to be unacceptably overpowered. Georgia, as "next big gun BB" that had to be given all the gimmicks to counteract her "on paper underwhelming guns" also was yeeted from sales. Third attempt at that, Yat Sen have only overmatch left from her guns with rest of the package being on meh side. Ability to overmatch things is just that effective.

 

As is, your Oki proposal would make sound tier 10 BB, not tier 9.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

What about tier 1 then? Each nation only has exactly one ship for the whole tier? Has anyone ever counted how many ships we currently have per tier/nation in the game? From a gameplay perspective, the number of ships should, IMO, be roughly equal all over, and also some of the nations remain fundamentally neglected.

[invicta2012]

21 hours ago, TheKaramelka said:

Collingwood = Nelson hull + Conqueror gun

She's not, though. Collingwood is as big as Fat Nelse but her armour scheme is 100% tier V Battlecruiser. Somewhere down the line WG decided that her gun power was so great (it's not) that she had to lose BC speed (the ship should be as fast as Hood, really) and lose almost all her casemate protection in compensation for her guns. The end result is *awful*.

 

The OPs idea is sound, though, even if some of their design choices are not. If WG pick a sound hull, there can be many interesting variations made, all of which will be worthwhile and can go across tiers. All the variations of Richelieu and Alsace show that can work. There are lots of other possibilities, too (I've always thought the Vanguard hull is a possibility here - update the ship with 406mm guns (at least), swap out the 5.25s for 4.5 inch guns, give her the qualities of a modern fast battleship at Tier IX rather than the real world rush job at VIII and we might have something worth buying). 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

3 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

She's not, though. Collingwood is as big as Fat Nelse but her armour scheme is 100% tier V Battlecruiser. Somewhere down the line WG decided that her gun power was so great (it's not) that she had to lose BC speed (the ship should be as fast as Hood, really) and lose almost all her casemate protection in compensation for her guns. The end result is *awful*.

 

The OPs idea is sound, though, even if some of their design choices are not. If WG pick a sound hull, there can be many interesting variations made, all of which will be worthwhile and can go across tiers. All the variations of Richelieu and Alsace show that can work. There are lots of other possibilities, too (I've always thought the Vanguard hull is a possibility here - update the ship with 406mm guns (at least), swap out the 5.25s for 4.5 inch guns, give her the qualities of a modern fast battleship at Tier IX rather than the real world rush job at VIII and we might have something worth buying). 

 

There's the 'sister ship' concept that would allow for fairly consistent variations in terms of ship design class. In the case of the Vanguard, that would mean fictional variations, but I think Vanguard is (or at least was) a fairly good but not a very inspiring ship in terms of gameplay, so those variations might be worth looking into.