There's something really wrong with this game

[Seraphice]

49 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

 

Could WG please introduce a filter setting for cruisers and other ships that actually are 'open water worthy' so less skilled players such as myself would not have to spend agonizing hours of poor quality gameplay trying to figure out which ships can actually do what they are supposed to do?

26 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

The problem is that there is no simple version of "open water worthiness" as many cruisers achieve this in different ways and builds. A Henry or Hindenburg lighthouse build is avoiding shells simply by staying at range, some minble CA's can avoid shells by proper maneuvring and some of the thicker boys out there can tank a substantial amount of damage due to to their armor scheme and correct angling. Most of them are even using all 3 mechanics interchangeably.

 

 

I guess I can give a little breakdown here myself as well, but I recommend you check out this guide: https://bit.ly/yurraguides

 

Yodo: Can be played as a bit of both, but is at risk in open water

Yoshino: Played in open water at long range

Zao: Played in open water at medium to long range. Use the quick rudder and turning circle to dodge.

Salem/Des Moines: Ideally played around islands

Worcester: Ideally played around islands
Puerto Rico: Ideally played open water in opportunistic positions

Austin: Ideally played around islands. Can play open water if there is no 460mm+ guns

Annapolis: Ideally played around islands

Jinan: Played in open water, mostly torping, occasionally shooting from smoke

Hindenburg/Clausewitz: Played in open water at medium to long range.

Stalingrad/Moskva: Can be played both, but make sure to angle out early into the game

Petropavlovsk: Can be played as both, but does prefer island cover nearby.

Nevsky: Open water at long range

Smolensk: Can use islands or smoke

Sevastopol: Played mostly in open water, but with islands nearby for retreat

Colbert/Minotaur/Edgar: Can be played in open water if you have the skill to dodge, otherwise use islands/smoke

Gibraltar/Goliath: Mostly open water

Venezia/Napoli: Open water cruisers by nature. Very agile and tanky.

Gouden Leeuw: Mostly uses islands but can play open water in the later stages of the game.

Henri/Condé: Mostly open water at medium to long range, using speed to dodge

Marseille: Uses islands a lot to cover her push, but is played in open water

 

It's a brief description only, and for a more detailed rundown, I suggest you check out the guide I linked above

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Karasu_Browarszky]

33 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

The problem is that there is no simple version of "open water worthiness" as many cruisers achieve this in different ways and builds. A Henry or Hindenburg lighthouse build is avoiding shells simply by staying at range, some minble CA's can avoid shells by proper maneuvring and some of the thicker boys out there can tank a substantial amount of damage due to to their armor scheme and correct angling. Most of them are even using all 3 mechanics interchangeably.

 

 

 

I've noticed I tend to prefer the cruisers that more or less fit under the 'heavy cruiser' classification. High tier ships that come to mind are Alaska and Kronshtadt. The midtiers favorite of mine is Myoko. Some cruisers seem more competent, I just haven't figured out a quick and dirty way of finding out. Could be I need to start looking at armor thickness, and gun range, the maneuvering wouldn't help me much because usually the first strike is deadly enough to erase my ship.

 

I just wish I knew where the 'cut-off point' is in terms of those stats. What kind of thickness is where armor starts to work, and what kind of range is the minimum the ship would need to have. Of course, that would also be tier dependent which complicates things when you are either uptiered or downtiered in battle.

 

29 minutes ago, Figment said:

Typically the reviews give an idea on how the ship is best used. Even if this can be a bit outdated or more situational given changes in gameplay by the addition of certain units.

 

Well, yes. I mostly read the reviews on premium ships, or used to, as I don't actually plan on getting any more at this stage. I've tried to see if the ship has the characteristics I'm looking for, but it's not necessarily a perfect match for the type of gameplay I prefer. The review might, in other words, indicate that the ship is fairly good and balanced, just not in my competent hands... in a manner of speaking. The reviews have helped me steer clear from ships that would be too difficult to begin with which is where they've been very useful.

 

25 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Usually the range does give that away. Playing a DM open water with 15,8km range would be a bit questionable, no? Vice versa playing Petro from behind a rock with 19km range and super flat gunarcs also would really not work because you cant get over the island.

 

That 15 to 16 km range, at least on the hight tiers, is what I've usually considered a fairly optimal range to engage, not necessarily the maximum range of the ship which might be longer. I have a tendency to favor those longer ranges, and flatter arcs naturally... so maybe that's something I should be looking for.

 

@Seraphice Thank you for the list!

[Yosha_AtaIante]

44 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

 

Still a little complex for me, though. I don't think they list any classification that would directly point out 'open water worthiness'. Probably could be figured out by looking at the stats and basing a conclusion on them, possibly, but that requires expert level knowledge of how the game mechanics actually work deep down in this game which is something I don't have, just the superficial cause and effect relationship I detect in the battles.

The open water worthiness is dependent on player skill. A Moskva can kite open water as can a Zao. Basically every ship can be played open water you just need to understand under which circumstances which moves are advised. There is no shortcut for bad players. After enough battles you should get the hang of it.

[Ubertron_X]

38 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

I've noticed I tend to prefer the cruisers that more or less fit under the 'heavy cruiser' classification. High tier ships that come to mind are Alaska and Kronshtadt. The midtiers favorite of mine is Myoko. Some cruises seem more competent, I just haven't figured out a quick and dirty way of finding out. Could be I need to start looking at armor thickness, and gun range, the maneuvering wouldn't help me much because usually the first strike is deadly enough to erase my ship.

 

I just wish I knew where the 'cut-off point' is in terms of those stats. What kind of thickness is where armor starts to work, and what kind of range is the minimum the ship would need to have. Of course, that would also be tier dependent which complicates things when you are either uptiered or downtiered in battle.

Regarding armor efficiency taking a look at the bow and stern sections of cruisers usually is a good first indicator, simply due to the overmatch mechanics (calibre / 14.3).

 

For example:

 

Admiral Hipper has a 27mm bow section reinforced with an added 40mm icebreaker. 27mm is enough armor to reliably bounce 381mm main guns when correctly angled, e.g. most German or French T8 BBs , 40mm is enough to bounce about everything including Yamatos 460mm guns. Cleveland on the other hand only has 25mm of bow/stern armor, which is barely enough to withstand 356mm guns when angled correctly. However by tier 8 standards BB main calibre has long eclipsed 356mm.

 

There is of course more to the individual armour schemes of each ship, including overall belt thickness, deck armor strength, turtelback citadel protection, layered armor etc., however if you want to know if a ship is tanky or not at a glance just take a look at the bow/stern in relation to the average BB gun you are likely to meet.

 

Also the captain skill "incomming fire alert" can help to save you big time avoiding early devastating strikes, especially when used with sufficient map awareness.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

26 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

The open water worthiness is dependent on player skill. A Moskva can kite open water as can a Zao. Basically every ship can be played open water you just need to understand under which circumstances which moves are advised. There is no shortcut for bad players. After enough battles you should get the hang of it.

 

Moskva? Not so much.

 

 

[Figment]

7 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

[...] Cleveland on the other hand only has 25mm of bow/stern armor, which is barely enough to withstand 356mm guns if angled correctly. However by tier 8 standards BB main calibre has long eclipsed 356mm. [...]

In other words: T6 Cleveland was fun. T8 Cleveland a pain. :P

[Yosha_AtaIante]

5 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

 

Moskva? Not so much.

 

 

Oh yes it can. On certain maps it is used in kiting positions even in Clan Battles. It is very tanky if played right. Don't ever underestimate it :)

[Ruthus]

I think cruisers are the hardest class to understand and to play. There are so many variations of armour/firepower/concealment; they are more often than not a class which needs to fire without being fired on. As we have seen this makes them tough as you can often get blapped from across the map by a BB that you are not aware of and sometimes even when you are angling it is all over in one hit since at all levels there is now much more overmatching. I am trying to play more of them rather than DD and BB and its a tough transition from either class to ovoid over and under extending. I actually find the challenge rewarding even though sometimes the games end rather unexpectedly.

 

What does not help is that cruiser play is slightly less edgy and random at the higher levels when the games are a little more slow. T5-8 is tough. Trying cruisers in ranked at t6 and t5 has been an exercise in frustration.

[Ubertron_X]

13 minutes ago, Ruthus said:

What does not help is that cruiser play is slightly less edgy and random at the higher levels when the games are a little more slow. T5-8 is tough. Trying cruisers in ranked at t6 and t5 has been an exercise in frustration.

Not surprisingly this is also the tier range in which most cruisers do not have access to heal, so any fire, overpen or regular pen will often hurt as much as an occasional citadel hit as you simply can not recover from stray damage or non-grievous mistakes, however if they do they usually (but not always) end up among the top dogs of their respective tiers, e.g. Exeter, Admiral Graf Spee, Surrey or Cherbourg.

[SkipperCH]

Removed 2 posts for insults

[KhorneFlake]

On 1/22/2023 at 7:54 PM, Kalonianhydra said:

This game is flawed. Or RNG just hates me.
It's totally unreal.
If I get the broad side of a cruiser I bounce or OP in my BB, but they can at the same time do triple the damage to me. And we are talking at any angles. I tried it all.

But if I play cruisers half my health is gone in seconds.

There is no sense in this game any more.

And if it on any level would be more equal, but it's not. I can spend match upon match shooting at broad side cruisers from long distance and get nothing even though my aim is on point, but the second I choose to go in a cruiser and get spotted at max range half my ship is deleted. And that's from any angle.

I know it's called RNG, but some day i would like it to swing a bit the other way.

How many others are out there with the same feeling?

And also, what cross hair do people use? As using the regular one makes it a little harder to hit ships on an angle at long distances. Or are there still people that have the aimbot installed? the one that shows exactly where to aim?

L2p issue

[AirSupremacy]

On 1/23/2023 at 11:17 AM, Seraphice said:

I guess I can give a little breakdown here myself as well, but I recommend you check out this guide: https://bit.ly/yurraguides

 

Yodo: Can be played as a bit of both, but is at risk in open water

Yoshino: Played in open water at long range

Zao: Played in open water at medium to long range. Use the quick rudder and turning circle to dodge.

Salem/Des Moines: Ideally played around islands

Worcester: Ideally played around islands
Puerto Rico: Ideally played open water in opportunistic positions

Austin: Ideally played around islands. Can play open water if there is no 460mm+ guns

Annapolis: Ideally played around islands

Jinan: Played in open water, mostly torping, occasionally shooting from smoke

Hindenburg/Clausewitz: Played in open water at medium to long range.

Stalingrad/Moskva: Can be played both, but make sure to angle out early into the game

Petropavlovsk: Can be played as both, but does prefer island cover nearby.

Nevsky: Open water at long range

Smolensk: Can use islands or smoke

Sevastopol: Played mostly in open water, but with islands nearby for retreat

Colbert/Minotaur/Edgar: Can be played in open water if you have the skill to dodge, otherwise use islands/smoke

Gibraltar/Goliath: Mostly open water

Venezia/Napoli: Open water cruisers by nature. Very agile and tanky.

Gouden Leeuw: Mostly uses islands but can play open water in the later stages of the game.

Henri/Condé: Mostly open water at medium to long range, using speed to dodge

Marseille: Uses islands a lot to cover her push, but is played in open water

 

It's a brief description only, and for a more detailed rundown, I suggest you check out the guide I linked above

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

IMHO the Venezia and Napoli are the most beginner friendly to play, both of those ships I always find hard to damage.

[OldPappy]

On 1/23/2023 at 11:54 AM, Karasu_Browarszky said:

 

Moskva? Not so much.

 

 

No it’s not to reccomend…

But if you are skilled, you will survive longer of course. 

[Figment]

22 hours ago, AirSupremacy said:

IMHO the Venezia and Napoli are the most beginner friendly to play, both of those ships I always find hard to damage.

The Napoli is also very resistant to Dutch air strikes due to the relatively small upper structure I suppose. Hardly ever catches fire and total damage from one or two air strikes is not in the 10K-20K region as if you'd hit an American cruiser, but more in the 1-3K region.

[Andrewbassg]

On 1/22/2023 at 8:54 PM, Kalonianhydra said:

This game is flawed. 

Yes there are great many things, which are wrong with this game. They all start with W and end with G

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Yes there are great many things, which are wrong with this game. They all start with W and end with G

Weatherproofing? Weightlifting? Windsurfing?

[Andrewbassg]

13 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Weatherproofing? Weightlifting? Windsurfing?

Wargambling :) Da world class and leading ( LMAO) "developer"...

[Kalonianhydra]

There is something wrong.
How can I in a DD doing around 42 knots going straight not catch a cruiser that have a listed speed of 31.9 knots. He was using speed boost and might have had a speed flag, but at the same time he changed course all the time and that should slow him down with about 5-6 knots.
The cruiser was a Cherbourg.

There is some serious crap going on. 

and why is cruiser accuracy better than Battleships at long range?

 

 

[ColonelPete]

18 minutes ago, Kalonianhydra said:

There is something wrong.
How can I in a DD doing around 42 knots going straight not catch a cruiser that have a listed speed of 31.9 knots. He was using speed boost and might have had a speed flag, but at the same time he changed course all the time and that should slow him down with about 5-6 knots.
The cruiser was a Cherbourg.

There is some serious crap going on.

Replay would help.

18 minutes ago, Kalonianhydra said:

and why is cruiser accuracy better than Battleships at long range?

Because cruisers have a better accuracy than BB overall, otherwise they would be even weaker.

[Kalonianhydra]

11 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Replay would help.

Because cruisers have a better accuracy than BB overall, otherwise they would be even weaker.

But they fire 3 times faster and when you fire back you hit with one shell and do an over pen. Then you have to wait 30 more seconds.

 

It's only if you win the RNG lottery about 100th of the times that you get some real damage. But when the shoe is on the other foot they win at least every other time

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, Kalonianhydra said:

But they fire 3 times faster and when you fire back you hit with one shell and do an over pen. Then you have to wait 30 more seconds

Some do, but not all.

I am not sure if you noticed, but their shells are a tiny bit smaller and have slightly more problems going through armor. Most cruisers also have slightly less range with often higher flight times than BB shells, which makes hitting at longer ranges "a bit" more difficult.

[Kalonianhydra]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Some do, but not all.

I am not sure if you noticed, but their shells are a tiny bit smaller and have slightly more problems going through armor. Most cruisers also have slightly less range with often higher flight times than BB shells, which makes hitting at longer ranges "a bit" more difficult.

But a lot of cruisers just turn and you miss with all shots from a BB as well, Seen it happen from as short as 12 km away.
 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

8 minutes ago, Kalonianhydra said:

But they fire 3 times faster and when you I fire back you I hit with one shell and do an over pen. Then you I have to wait 30 more seconds

Fixed it for you.

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, Kalonianhydra said:

But a lot of cruisers just turn and you miss with all shots from a BB as well, Seen it happen from as short as 12 km away.
 

If you miss at 12km, you were either unlucky with the dispersion or you need to work on your aim.

[Kalonianhydra]

4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

If you miss at 12km, you were either unlucky with the dispersion or you need to work on your aim.

There's nothing wrong with my aim, when you can see the shots fall on either side of the ship. And it happens a lot.