There's something really wrong with this game

[Kalonianhydra]

This game is flawed. Or RNG just hates me.
It's totally unreal.
If I get the broad side of a cruiser I bounce or OP in my BB, but they can at the same time do triple the damage to me. And we are talking at any angles. I tried it all.

But if I play cruisers half my health is gone in seconds.

There is no sense in this game any more.

And if it on any level would be more equal, but it's not. I can spend match upon match shooting at broad side cruisers from long distance and get nothing even though my aim is on point, but the second I choose to go in a cruiser and get spotted at max range half my ship is deleted. And that's from any angle.

I know it's called RNG, but some day i would like it to swing a bit the other way.

How many others are out there with the same feeling?

And also, what cross hair do people use? As using the regular one makes it a little harder to hit ships on an angle at long distances. Or are there still people that have the aimbot installed? the one that shows exactly where to aim?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Can you post a replay of one of the games where what you describe happens so we can help you in more detail?

[Kalonianhydra]

1 hour ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

Can you post a replay of one of the games where what you describe happens so we can help you in more detail?

That would require multiple replays, and I don't have any right now.

[ColonelPete]

If one has luck all the time, it is called skill.

If one does not have have luck all the time,...

[ColonelPete]

Am 22.1.2023 um 21:40, Kalonianhydra sagte:

edit

Sorry, if you did not understand my text. I assumed it was easy.

 

A bit easier: Nobody has bad luck all the time in game. When you do not hit the enemy and/or the enemy hit you all the time and lose half your ship, you need to improve your gameplay. Map awareness and proper angling reduce the damage your ships take by A LOT. Better aiming AND better target selection also improve your damage output and your leathality towards the enemy.

[Kalonianhydra]

4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Sorry, if you did not understand my text. I assumed it was easy.

 

A bit easier: Nobody has bad luck all the time in game. When you do not hit the enemy and/or the enemy hit you all the time and lose half your ship, you need to improve your gameplay. Map awareness and proper angling reduce the damage your ships take by A LOT. Better aiming AND better target selection also improve your damage output and your leathality towards the enemy.

Stating the obvious. 
I know all this and it doesn't help. I know how to angle and position and it still doesn't help. As soon as I get spotted and even if I'm angled they take away a lot more health.

But you assume as always. RNG is screwed.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Am 22.1.2023 um 21:40, Kalonianhydra sagte:

edit

 

He has a point. Actually, he seems to have three points and a comma (bonus ).

 

OP, the ships in this game are crap. Cruisers especially. Your cruiser is intended to be hidden behind an island. Preferably two. You are not supposed to have fun by playing a ship that engages the enemy as part of your team maneuvers. You are supposed to play what is a very boring 3rd person shoot em up where you peak around corners and squirt at the enemy players.

[ColonelPete]

5 minutes ago, Kalonianhydra said:

Stating the obvious. 
I know all this and it doesn't help. I know how to angle and position and it still doesn't help. As soon as I get spotted and even if I'm angled they take away a lot more health.

But you assume as always. RNG is screwed.

Knowing is not doing. And if one gets a lot damage all the time, I do not need to assume.

[Kalonianhydra]

18 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Knowing is not doing. And if one gets a lot damage all the time, I do not need to assume.

Trust me, you don't aim with very good precision in any ship at around 20 km range.
You just get lucky. And I have so many occasions when I have had perfect aim and still see all shots straddle the target or just get one or two OP.
But when the tables are turned I loose half my ship. And if it wasn't that often and it would like 50/50 of the times it wouldn't matter so much. But it isn't:
I also know that you can turn or slow down to avoid this and I have seen it many times, but I tried it as well and I still get hit, is it unlucky or is there something else?

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, Kalonianhydra said:

...is it unlucky or is there something else?

Your lack of timing.

[Kalonianhydra]

29 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Your lack of timing.

Maybe your lack of understanding. Or do you use mods and cheats for your aiming. Would not be surprised about that.

[principat121]

1 hour ago, Kalonianhydra said:

That would require multiple replays, and I don't have any right now.

You do!

 

There is no problem if you lack the proper knowledge, the forum can help you learning! 

 

Just look in your Replay-subfolder in your game inventory! There you will find your last 30 replays by default. 

[ColonelPete]

11 minutes ago, Kalonianhydra said:

Maybe your lack of understanding. Or do you use mods and cheats for your aiming. Would not be surprised about that.

No need for that. Even afk players recieve less damage on their ships than you.

[doerhoff_damian]

well there are many things you have to keep in mind.

 

Not all Battleships have the same accuracy. The Sigma Values are often different (higher Sigma means more shoots go towards the center of the elipse.

The Elipse is also differently depending on the nation. 

You might also be able to skill your Battleship for accuracy (Modules, Captain Skils). The Rest is Practice and RNG..

Now I am more of a Brawler/Secondary Battery Player so I might not be able to help you there.

 

The Angle of the Cruiser and the Armor is also important. Maybe the Cruiser was slightly angled and he had armor over the citadel that you could not overmatch.

Overmatch (You ignore Armor if your Caliber is 14, 3  times higher than that armor. For example Yamatos 460 mm Guns overmatch 32 mm)

Some Cruisers can also be very poorly armored. Caledon and Danae for example could be citadeled by low caliber he shells hitting the exposed citadel from above.

 

Now there are different ways to play cruisers.

Maybe you use an Island to hide behind and shoot over it then you need to position good and skill fast acceleration so the enemy can´t get a shot on you.

Maybe you have smoke then you want good concealment and position in a way that the enemy can´t just radar you but they also can´t just run out off your gun range when you sit in smoke and farm them. You need someone to spot for you and you need to keep torps in mind that could be send into your smoke (hydro is helpfull here)

Maybe you play open water. Then you want the priorty target skill and any rudder skill that you can get. So you can turn out and dance the second the enemy is paying attention to you.

 

And if you have to play bow in tank in a big russian cruiser keep you armor in mind and the number of ships that could farm you

 

[invicta2012]

12 hours ago, Kalonianhydra said:

And also, what cross hair do people use? As using the regular one makes it a little harder to hit ships on an angle at long distances. Or are there still people that have the aimbot installed? the one that shows exactly where to aim?

Dynamic one. Always. Never liked the static ones. 

 

12 hours ago, Kalonianhydra said:

But if I play cruisers half my health is gone in seconds.

Always has been like that. (Is that a Cleveland, rather than an Ohio meme?).

[endlessBoogie]

Vor 13 Stunden, Kalonianhydra sagte:

And also, what cross hair do people use? As using the regular one makes it a little harder to hit ships on an angle at long distances.

Type 6, because i like to see my targets. I don´t see any advantage in having numbers and thick lines obscuring my view.

[Figment]

11 hours ago, Kalonianhydra said:

I know all this and it doesn't help. I know how to angle and position and it still doesn't help. As soon as I get spotted and even if I'm angled they take away a lot more health.

Then how come you're not getting the results you should be getting if you - and we have to take your word on this since you refuse to drop replays - are in the correct position and aiming at the correct spots?

 

To me it sounds like you THINK you are in the right position and aiming at the right spots, but in reality are not doing so at all.

 

It sounds to me like:

 

- You're taking on overmatching BBs with your nose (many BBs can citadel certain ships from the front)

- You don't know the actual armour lay-out of your ships and/or the consequences when facing specific other ships

- You don't know when to hit the upper deck vs lower deck or leading to hit weakspots rather than the ship in general. Possibly also with the wrong ammo.

- You presume wrongly you're doing everything right, "ERGO it can't be my fault, I need a scapegoat, let's blame the game's code EVEN if it's working for everyone else by my own admittance".

- You use the wrong type of ammo in the wrong moments or perhaps with poor leading, hitting at ricochet angles or torpedo protections or turtlebacks unwittingly.

- You may hit modules that absorb damage, rather than aiming next to them (frontally, aim to the side at deck height if there's a bit of an angle, or over turrets with AP if there's not. Though it's usualy better to hit with HE in those instances and start some fires)

- You don't understand overpenetration, where some light cruisers are so thin that AP on their broadside passes right through them without exploding inside due to the trigger time, unless hit in the citadel, whereas if you hit them from the rear or front the length of the ship is long enough to not cause overpenetration and might get a citadel out of it. In fact, some ships are easier to citadel with HE than AP due to overpenetration (!).

- When you're talking long range sniping, it sounds like you're not understanding plunging fire. Some BBs can citadel with more ease than others at long range (though most are better at medium range to cit anything. Depends on the target as well. Easier to citadel German ships at range for instance due to the angle with respect to the turtleback).

 

For instance, you talk about hitting ships on the side. But WHERE on the side do you hit them? At which angle are they with respect to you? Are you aiming waterline or deck height? That matters on which ship you're engaging. If you're engaging a turtleback ship, aim at deckheight. If you're engaging other cruisers, aim at the waterline. If you're aiming at any ship, particularly Stalinium ship at an angle with AP, aim for deckheight. Don't hit the turrets unless you want to try to disable them, because they absorb a lot of damage without damaging the actual ship hitpool.

 

Cruisers dealing AP damage on your BB likely hit your nose or butt sections. SOME can penetrate your midsection to citadel, but that's for a limited range and selection of ships (attacker/defender combi). Some BBs can be penned from any angle or even better at an angle than right on the side. Some ships have weakspots like the IJN BBs that can be hit from an angle under the second turret to get instant unprotected citadel damage (you can do 40-50K in one salvo there if you're in a close enough position to fire accurately).

 

It also sounds like when you play cruisers you're playing too exposed and showing far too much broadside, especially while visible or with bad timing. When in a cruiser and in need to turn, I tend to only turn my broadside towards an enemy right after it wasted an AP or HE volley and likely is loading HE to fire at my nose again, so that even if it fires while I'm broadsided, it's going to be less serious damage (and maybe I can get some torps off). I see lots of cruiser players with horrible timing however.

Quote

But you assume as always. RNG is screwed.

Oh irony. That assumption of RNG being screwed when it's randomly generated in the same way for everyone.

 

 

 

Sorry, you're coming off as extremely butt hurt and finding someone or something else to blame so long as you don't need to critically re-evaluate yourself and whether you truly understood it. You might get the basic idea, but that doesn't mean you've actually mastered it. I havn't fully either, because I don't know all the lay-outs and penetration capabilities of ships, so I'm guessing a lot, but seemingly at a much better educated guess rate than you.

 

We all lose half or more hp if we play cruisers and take it to a spot where someone has a broadside on us that allows for an easy citadel. That's not RNG, that's the game's design and has always been this way.

[Figment]

11 hours ago, Kalonianhydra said:

Trust me, you don't aim with very good precision in any ship at around 20 km range.

Eeeeh... Depends on the ship. If stuff moves in a straight line, there's a pretty decent chance it will hit. If you see an ever so slight angle with respect to the horizontal (nose up), aim a bit higher and closer to it. If the nose is a little bit down, aim a little bit lower and closer to it. Lead quickly changes at even slight angles. 20-23km can be hit reliably with some ships, but try to focus on targets that are only 10s away from your shells. 15s can be done, but generally not recommended unless you have impeccable leading skills and prediction of what a ship is going to do (or if it's stationary).

11 hours ago, Kalonianhydra said:

You just get lucky. And I have so many occasions when I have had perfect aim and still see all shots straddle the target or just get one or two OP.

That's RNG for you, however, your own lead and aiming accuracy does matter in how often it fails. I sense you think your aim is way better than it actually is. Aiming a few pixels more or less means your shot will more or less likely be off by a few dozens of meters. So take your time taking a shot.

11 hours ago, Kalonianhydra said:

But when the tables are turned I loose half my ship. And if it wasn't that often and it would like 50/50 of the times it wouldn't matter so much. But it isn't:
I also know that you can turn or slow down to avoid this and I have seen it many times, but I tried it as well and I still get hit, is it unlucky or is there something else?

Likely you are being too predictable. But if you're doing the change of speed in an obvious way or at the wrong time it can just make you a more predictable target.

 

For instance, if I get shot at in a BB at the start of the game at max range (I actually see a volley being launched), I often immediately change course and speed, only to speed up right after turning and turning again to avoid becoming a sitting duck. This often throws off enemy aim off and it passes by my nose instead of landing on my main hull. However, if I first make a move, before the shot is already under way, then I'd just be asking them to hit a slower moving target.

 

When engaging cruisers, I tend to wait for the cruiser to commit to a turn before firing, waiting for it to be presenting a (near) broadside by the time my shot lands. A commitment is made when a sharp turn is executed or the ship will have to make a certain move at some point. If possible keeping myself concealed till that moment so the cruiser doesn't see it coming (works great with British BBs for instance).

 

When a ship moves away from me and tries to kite, I tend to aim relatively high over it, so it'll hit its upper deck and possibly plunge downward into the hull (even citadel), rather than hit the butt and the turrets there and cause just light or module damage or ricochet.

 

Do keep a close eye on the minimap. You might feel like you're angled with respect to the map and certain enemies, but might not have the right angle compared to others. In some cases it's better to not fire and expose your position until you're in the right position than firing in order to optimise the amount of shots per minute. Do you go dark enough? Do you wait for enemy BBs to have fired (preferably at allied BBs) before firing your own volley and showing your position so that they can't fire at you for the next 30 seconds and you can change angle and disengage if needed?

[Seraphice]

12 hours ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

 

He has a point. Actually, he seems to have three points and a comma (bonus ).

 

OP, the ships in this game are crap. Cruisers especially. Your cruiser is intended to be hidden behind an island. Preferably two. You are not supposed to have fun by playing a ship that engages the enemy as part of your team maneuvers. You are supposed to play what is a very boring 3rd person shoot em up where you peak around corners and squirt at the enemy players.

I have to disagree here. There are plenty of cruisers that can be played in open water and can either dodge the incoming salvos consistently or tank them in a lot of cases. There are a lot of cruisers that utilize islands as well - true, but it is hardly the only way to play effectively in Random Battles.

 

11 hours ago, Kalonianhydra said:

Trust me, you don't aim with very good precision in any ship at around 20 km range.
You just get lucky. And I have so many occasions when I have had perfect aim and still see all shots straddle the target or just get one or two OP.
But when the tables are turned I loose half my ship. And if it wasn't that often and it would like 50/50 of the times it wouldn't matter so much. But it isn't:
I also know that you can turn or slow down to avoid this and I have seen it many times, but I tried it as well and I still get hit, is it unlucky or is there something else?

It's very possible to get reliable dispersion even at 20km. You might not hit the citadel every time, but often enough.
On the receiving end, first of all, we tend to remember the bad things more than the good things. We remember the times the enemy does citadel us more than when they missed and didn't.
Second thing is to be aware of your surroundings. If you can see the shot coming from 20km, you have more than enough time to predict the path the shells will take and avoid them.

 

14 hours ago, Kalonianhydra said:

And also, what cross hair do people use? As using the regular one makes it a little harder to hit ships on an angle at long distances. Or are there still people that have the aimbot installed? the one that shows exactly where to aim?

I myself and most of the competitive players I know simply use one of the basic static ones, just to have a straight line on their screen.
Most of the aiming is done by feel and by experience, rather than with the help of the crosshair. The crosshair is just there as a line, like a waterpass.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Karasu_Browarszky]

20 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

I have to disagree here. There are plenty of cruisers that can be played in open water and can either dodge the incoming salvos consistently or tank them in a lot of cases. There are a lot of cruisers that utilize islands as well - true, but it is hardly the only way to play effectively in Random Battles.

 

 

Could WG please introduce a filter setting for cruisers and other ships that actually are 'open water worthy' so less skilled players such as myself would not have to spend agonizing hours of poor quality gameplay trying to figure out which ships can actually do what they are supposed to do?

[Figment]

8 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

Could WG please introduce a filter setting for cruisers and other ships that actually are 'open water worthy' so less skilled players such as myself would not have to spend agonizing hours of poor quality gameplay trying to figure out which ships can actually do what they are supposed to do?

It's called reading Wiki reviews in case you're uncertain. :P

[Karasu_Browarszky]

2 minutes ago, Figment said:

It's called reading Wiki reviews in case you're uncertain. :P

 

Still a little complex for me, though. I don't think they list any classification that would directly point out 'open water worthiness'. Probably could be figured out by looking at the stats and basing a conclusion on them, possibly, but that requires expert level knowledge of how the game mechanics actually work deep down in this game which is something I don't have, just the superficial cause and effect relationship I detect in the battles.

[Ubertron_X]

Just now, Karasu_Browarszky said:

Still a little complex for me, though. I don't think they list any classification that would directly point out 'open water worthiness'. Probably could be figured out by looking at the stats and basing a conclusion on them, possibly, but that requires expert level knowledge of how the game mechanics actually work deep down in this game which is something I don't have, just the superficial cause and effect relationship I detect in the battles.

The problem is that there is no simple version of "open water worthiness" as many cruisers achieve this in different ways and builds. A Henry or Hindenburg lighthouse build is avoiding shells simply by staying at range, some minble CA's can avoid shells by proper maneuvring and some of the thicker boys out there can tank a substantial amount of damage due to to their armor scheme and correct angling. Most of them are even using all 3 mechanics interchangeably.

 

 

[Figment]

11 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

Still a little complex for me, though. I don't think they list any classification that would directly point out 'open water worthiness'. Probably could be figured out by looking at the stats and basing a conclusion on them, possibly, but that requires expert level knowledge of how the game mechanics actually work deep down in this game which is something I don't have, just the superficial cause and effect relationship I detect in the battles.

Typically the reviews give an idea on how the ship is best used. Even if this can be a bit outdated or more situational given changes in gameplay by the addition of certain units.

[DFens_666]

21 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

 

Could WG please introduce a filter setting for cruisers and other ships that actually are 'open water worthy' so less skilled players such as myself would not have to spend agonizing hours of poor quality gameplay trying to figure out which ships can actually do what they are supposed to do?

 

Usually the range does give that away. Playing a DM open water with 15,8km range would be a bit questionable, no? Vice versa playing Petro from behind a rock with 19km range and super flat gunarcs also would really not work because you cant get over the island.