Operations _ WTF?

[SeaWolf7]

13 hours ago, 22cm said:

If you expect to win, you ll have to carry hard.

 

 

 

Even Atals would be impressed with that carry. Nice work.

[webaake]

Me and another guy carried in Narai. We both took down their transports AND their CV AND later the other ships in the center. We were the only two players left (no div)

[159Hunter]

14 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

I still got to the base and did good damage in there, but only 2 teammates arrived in time to do anything. I doubt I could've protected the transports on my own for several minutes...

Then I refer to my first post: rethink your choice of ship.

[Dampfboot]

Unfortunately the quality of players in Operations has gone down the drain fast. I now almost lose more than I win.

[webaake]

Before the rework of Ops into Random Ops you had a choice of many ships suitable for the particular Ops that week. And you could have fun playing Ops a lot that week and gain Base XP and more. The following week you had to make different choices depending on the Op. It created variety, motivation and interest.

 

Now, you can only chose from a much more narrow selection of suitable ships. And you cannot chose Ops at all (except in Div, or what?)

 

This rework makes for paradoxically, less variety, less creativity and less motivation.

 

So I play this less and less. 

having seemingly contradictory qualities or phases")

[DFens_666]

18 hours ago, LiveWire___ said:

 

There's your problem, right there.

 

Do NOT follow that idiot Smith. Instead, begun the battle by hooking South behind the first island, tackle first set of bots from the left side. 

 

Then, head north and either flank the second set of bots from their left, or turn back on yourself, through the channel that Smith yolos through, and hook right.

 

Go north from there. 

 

Thats literally the worst tactic to do. Imagine if everyone would do it. By going behind the island, you cant shoot for quite some time. And you also dont tank anything for the team.

 

- Cruisers dont shoot the DDs.

- Too many people run off south behind the island.

Those are the 2 issues for the first wave. And by running away, the 2nd wave has less targets to fire it, making it more likely for them to kill someone. All you need for the 2nd wave, is 2 BBs who take turns tanking. Then all Cruisers could sit safely behind them and help kill the Bots. But 1 BB alone cant do it anymore. Then you also have the escort bots broadside, which makes it much easier.

[Ronchabale]

1 hour ago, webaake said:

Before the rework of Ops into Random Ops you had a choice of many ships suitable for the particular Ops that week. And you could have fun playing Ops a lot that week and gain Base XP and more. The following week you had to make different choices depending on the Op. It created variety, motivation and interest.

 

Now, you can only chose from a much more narrow selection of suitable ships. And you cannot chose Ops at all (except in Div, or what?)

 

This rework makes for paradoxically, less variety, less creativity and less motivation.

 

So I play this less and less. 

having seemingly contradictory qualities or phases")

 

Totally opposite for me, I play more ops

Choose a ship and see what OP you get, it´s more fun and more of a challenge now even if you can´t win every game

 

 

 

Edit:

Next game I got the same op

 

 

 

 

 

[tocqueville8]

2 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

Then I refer to my first post: rethink your choice of ship.

It's one thing to suggest a more conservative strategy, but if I can't reliably grind a Tier 8 with good damage output (if you include the torps) in Operations, indeed I don't see the point in playing them. It's not like I'm bringing a Gallant...

[IanH755]

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

Thats literally the worst tactic to do. Imagine if everyone would do it. By going behind the island, you cant shoot for quite some time. And you also dont tank anything for the team.

 

This "run behind the island" thing is new to me as, before I took a 2 year hiatus, we did exactly what you said and rarely lost Aegis but now everyone does what Livewire suggests (probably as they're scared by the amount of 203mm HE from the North group) and so you rarely win. I'm not sure why "we" changed the best way to play this Op.

[lup3s]

17 hours ago, RenamedUser_92906789 said:

 

Wow, hands down for that.

Most new ijn cruiser players just ... die :)

 

Should I skip T6/7 in ops and just go for T8?

 

No, I thought the new IJN CL line was quite good in Ops, like IFHE Mogami.

 

I managed to unlock the T9 with just 4 games with the T8 (red XP booster); got between 1800 and 2000 bxp with it each time.

[lup3s]

36 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

 

This "run behind the island" thing is new to me as, before I took a 2 year hiatus, we did exactly what you said and rarely lost Aegis but now everyone does what Livewire suggests (probably as they're scared by the amount of 203mm HE from the North group) and so you rarely win. I'm not sure why "we" changed the best way to play this Op.

 

I refer to your avatar

[LiveWire___]

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Thats literally the worst tactic to do. Imagine if everyone would do it. By going behind the island, you cant shoot for quite some time. And you also dont tank anything for the team.

 

- Cruisers dont shoot the DDs.

- Too many people run off south behind the island.

Those are the 2 issues for the first wave. And by running away, the 2nd wave has less targets to fire it, making it more likely for them to kill someone. All you need for the 2nd wave, is 2 BBs who take turns tanking. Then all Cruisers could sit safely behind them and help kill the Bots. But 1 BB alone cant do it anymore. Then you also have the escort bots broadside, which makes it much easier.

 

Works for me.

[ZygZag]

5 hours ago, webaake said:

Before the rework of Ops into Random Ops you had a choice of many ships suitable for the particular Ops that week. And you could have fun playing Ops a lot that week and gain Base XP and more. (...) It created variety, motivation and interest.(...)

IMO it was making ops booooooooooring like hell. For me there was almost no fun at all - 7 days of same scenario. It created people with very narrow specialisation. Players stopped to be creative and playin' ops stoped to be any challenge. 

 

Now it is quite interesting. Ok - lack of cooperation in ops and clear stupity of large part of playerbase can be frustrating. But it also makes me to simply try harder. Up to now main "challenge" was how much I can outperform others playing Weimair in Narai or how many citadels and torp hits I can score with Aigle in Aegis

[Ronchabale]

 

7 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Thats literally the worst tactic to do. Imagine if everyone would do it. By going behind the island, you cant shoot for quite some time. And you also dont tank anything for the team.

 

- Cruisers dont shoot the DDs.

- Too many people run off south behind the island.

Those are the 2 issues for the first wave. And by running away, the 2nd wave has less targets to fire it, making it more likely for them to kill someone. All you need for the 2nd wave, is 2 BBs who take turns tanking. Then all Cruisers could sit safely behind them and help kill the Bots. But 1 BB alone cant do it anymore. Then you also have the escort bots broadside, which makes it much easier.

Yes..

Running south or "behind the island" will mostly result in a loss

 

[159Hunter]

6 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

It's one thing to suggest a more conservative strategy, but if I can't reliably grind a Tier 8 with good damage output (if you include the torps) in Operations, indeed I don't see the point in playing them. It's not like I'm bringing a Gallant...

Shimanto gun DPM is just lacking way too much. The torps can be useful, but their damage is no substitute for the lack in gun DPM.

And imho gun DPM is what you need to carry the current influx of potatoes in operations.

[VenividiviciNL]

 

On 1/21/2023 at 2:11 PM, lup3s said:

 

Played 4 Operations with Shimanto yesterday and it was enough to unlock the T9 with the red XP booster.

Won all 4 of them, with an average of 1800 bxp (~50k xp with booster).

Shimanto is not the issue, shitty players / teammates are.

 

I like the Operations to be harder, before they were a walk in the park (almost) every time.

The issue - again - is just the average player being crap at the game; e.g. Aegis, WG had to nerf that Operation and people are still losing it (apparently).

 

WG could make an Op where you fight T1 bots with TXs and some would still find a way to lose.

Aye, @lup3s. we had fun the 3 of us (including @Saltface) in our Shimanto's last Friday night in which we ended 1,2 and 3 each time, carrying the rest of the team. Defence of New Port was never that easy to my knowledge :)

 

Remember the Sinop who got full HP blown away by the tier IX BB in one salvo 

 

I can't state enough to play Operations in division form with friends, clan members or regular forumites writing on this subject (i.e. @DFens_666) as we run in general on 100% winrate on the Operations together....

 

Have fun and enjoy the waves!

[Bland_42]

Ok, as far as I remember this is new...

 

Oland, Narai with premium time, new ship with no modules and commander in training.

Not a good combination, and weekend team didn't help.

 

Still, losing credits it's not something I remember to have seen before.

 

Spoiler

 

WG changed something... even about the rewards (again)?

[Saltface]

Operations are, I ll make a parallel, like an exercise. Or even better you have to solve the puzzle.

 

We know where the bots will spawn. There is little variation (Raptor I m looking at you) but other than that it's more or less the same. So you have to find the way to play the OP to get maximum results.

However, this is something you learn when you have played a few, tried some things out, succeeded or failed, it is a learning process. At least for me it is. @lup3s showed me how to play my Edinburg in Ultimate Frontier, it worked as a charm. Players that haven't played OPs or don't see them as a good game mode or just don't care and just want a casual "shoot my guns" thingy, evidently, will not perform well.

 

Aegis is a bit tricky. It is hard to kill the second wave fast enough if you don't get broadsides, third wave (escorts) sail fast so here is one more degree of difficulty and if you don't have a ship with torps to help with the 2 BBs that spawn north you are in trouble. 

Bots aim well (unlike human players) and do focus fire the closest ship (again unlike human players). All in all, you have to know what to do, have the right ship, and your team mates need to know when to tank for you or to tank for the transports. Many a time, I have seen BBs hiding behind the transports. 

We tried a tactic with @Lup3s by moving my Shimanto from the start to get a flanking position for the second wave. First time it worked very nice. Second time I messed up because I was playing a  lighthouse built and I was permaspoted from the firstwave. I will try it again. Maybe with a Edinburg. 

Going south around the island is not recommended. Not only you take many guns out of the game but you cant help with saving the Shchors captain. 

 

One more thing. Using MMMonitor, I noticed that most OPs are filled with players that have very few battles. They barely know the basics let alone the OP particularities. This doesn't help either. And the damage is twofold. They, inadvertently, ruin the game for the other players as they have no clue and they get disappointed.

 

Long story short. DIV up boyz. Our experience is that 5 players can almost make sure that it is a 5 star game. Get two randoms to have max rewards and you're set.

 

 

 

[DFens_666]

10 hours ago, Saltface said:

However, this is something you learn when you have played a few, tried some things out, succeeded or failed, it is a learning process.

 

Many players dont really learn anything. First they are overly aggressive and die. So they "learn" to sit back and not die - done.

 

11 hours ago, Bland_42 said:

Still, losing credits it's not something I remember to have seen before.

 

I think because it was a loss.

 

20 hours ago, LiveWire___ said:

 

Works for me.

 

That could really mean anything

[Bland_42]

32 minuti fa, DFens_666 ha scritto:

I think because it was a loss.

Like if it was the first ever.

 

Honestly I'm not sure, but like written before I don't remember ever losing credits even losing matches with non-premium time.

[LiveWire___]

7 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

That could really mean anything

 

Um, well, I only used three words, so decoding its meaning should be straightforward.

 

What I meant when I said it was:

 

"Works for me" 

[DFens_666]

16 hours ago, LiveWire___ said:

 

Um, well, I only used three words, so decoding its meaning should be straightforward.

 

What I meant when I said it was:

 

"Works for me" 

 

Works for me could mean

- Im not dying

- Im doing good damage

- Im winning most of the time

- I get 5* often

- I contribute heavily to the success of the operation

 

1+2 arent necessarily good, because you can still lose the OP, which is the most important part. Some people claim it works for them, but doesnt mean it really does. They just think so and blame the team.

[LiveWire___]

5 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Works for me could mean

- Im not dying

- Im doing good damage

- Im winning most of the time

- I get 5* often

- I contribute heavily to the success of the operation

 

Yes. 

 

Unless my teammates are potatoes. In which case

 

No.