Operations _ WTF?

[webaake]

WTF?

[SurfaceFish]

Did you just failed operations the 1st time? You get around 500 basic xp for trying to carry a sack of potatoes not matter how hard you tried. 

 

 

[lafeel]

Get used to it if you want to continue playing ops. Some teams just refuse to learn the objectives of Operations, and if you don't play the objectives, you lose, simple as that.

[webaake]

It's sad. I know...

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Welcome to online games.

[tocqueville8]

The reworked Ops just don't work for me. Yesterday I lost 4 in a row in the Shimanto:

• an Aegis where I did 160k dmg to the first two waves but the team got slaughtered and basically every single enemy accompanied the transports all the way South
• a Narai with 350k+ dmg at the end, where we failed all the objective after losing multiple ships along the way.
• Aegis again, but the team scattered at the start, so there wasn't really anyone to stop the first waves
• Ultimate Frontier: the eastern force didn't push North, the planes got wiped out by the bot Atlanta 

Maybe the new AI prevents those infamous Weimars to hog all the kills in Narai, but whoever asked for Operations to be harder than Randoms/Ranked, and for lower rewards?

 

EDIT: tried again, lost again in Narai. Shchors broke South for the transports, died before the Missouri even showed up; Bismarck chased the CV, didn't get her, died; New Mexico was still behind the transports when they entered the base, they got slaughtered...

[159Hunter]

26 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

The reworked Ops just don't work for me. Yesterday I lost 4 in a row in the Shimanto:

• an Aegis where I did 160k dmg to the first two waves but the team got slaughtered and basically every single enemy accompanied the transports all the way South
• a Narai with 350k+ dmg at the end, where we failed all the objective after losing multiple ships along the way.
•  Aegis again, but the team scattered at the start, so there wasn't really anyone to stop the first waves
• Ultimate Frontier: the eastern force didn't push North, the planes got wiped out by the bot Atlanta 

Maybe the new AI prevents those infamous Weimars to hog all the kills in Narai, but whoever asked for Operations to be harder than Randoms/Ranked, and for lower rewards?

 

EDIT: tried again, lost again in Narai. Shchors broke South for the transports, died before the Missouri even showed up; Bismarck chased the CV, didn't get her, died; New Mexico was still behind the transports when they entered the base, they got slaughtered...

Honestly, if you lose 4 ops in a row you are doing something wrong yourself.

Sure, you can lose once in a while, or complete them with 3 starts or something. But if this happens this often you might need to rethink your choice of ship or your positioning...

[tocqueville8]

Just now, 159Hunter said:

Honestly, if you lose 4 ops in a row you are doing something wrong yourself.

Sure, you can lose once in a while, or complete them with 3 starts or something. But if this happens this often you might need to rethink your choice of ship or your positioning...

My positioning was fine:

• in the Ultimate Frontier I went straight North along the flank, but my teammates were getting pummelled by the dreadnoughts, so I had to help them instead of pushing for the Atlanta. Maybe a bad call, but we were losing ships already...
• in Narai I was the first to enter the base at a decent time (after going for the transports): most of the team had been sunk or was inexplicably lurking behind our own transports, which got massacred. Only 3 ships made inside the base iirc.
• in Aegis I followed the Fletcher and did my job against the two waves. It's not like I choked when you're supposed to steal/escort the transports: we never really got to that phase.

Shimanto might not be the best pick, but there are people playing New Mexico...

[IanH755]

37 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

Honestly, if you lose 4 ops in a row you are doing something wrong yourself.

Sure, you can lose once in a while, or complete them with 3 starts or something. But if this happens this often you might need to rethink your choice of ship or your positioning...

 

Ah, a member of the "the performance of 6 other people doesn't effect the outcome of the game! It's all down to one person who can carry every single time, I should know but I keep my stats private so no-one knows what an uber super unicum player I am" gang.

 

So then oh uber Operations player, how does 1 single player overcome 6 potatoes with no clue how to play the game, please tell us all so we never lose an operation ever again oh mighty one!!!!!!!!!

 

Of course back in this reality some teams you just can't carry no matter what, I mean you can do well and positioning (i.e. knowing the Op) helps out massively, but at some point you will have to face facts and realise that even a 2500+xp solo performance can't win every game.

 

9 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

Shimanto might not be the best pick, but there are people playing New Mexico...

 

There are people playing T8 Premium BB's with 6km torps who are firing them at cruisers 15km away, so taking a NM into an Ops doesn't surprise me!

[Bland_42]

1 ora fa, tocqueville8 ha scritto:

My positioning was fine:

• in the Ultimate Frontier I went straight North along the flank, but my teammates were getting pummelled by the dreadnoughts, so I had to help them instead of pushing for the Atlanta. Maybe a bad call, but we were losing ships already...
• in Narai I was the first to enter the base at a decent time (after going for the transports): most of the team had been sunk or was inexplicably lurking behind our own transports, which got massacred. Only 3 ships made inside the base iirc.
• in Aegis I followed the Fletcher and did my job against the two waves. It's not like I choked when you're supposed to steal/escort the transports: we never really got to that phase.

Shimanto might not be the best pick, but there are people playing New Mexico...

With all the chances that my opinion is wrong, I think that your main error was to expect teamplay.

After the rework I sadly feel that this is a wrong approach: if we must believe to Seraphice, currently the Ops players are 3 or 4 times those before, so while before those were specialists (more or less) now a lot of them have no idea how to do a decent match.

 

Usually when I do an Operation I know that I need to carry more than possible, be ready to change my actions based on what my team is doing and I also try to make suggestions (in a "diplomatic" way) to have a bit of support if the team is doing something "strange".

And even with all above, I know that I have a fair chance to fail the Op.

 

I don't remember my current WR in Ops, but with some ships is around 80%. That's the only reason that I do a lot of tech-tree grinding in there, if my WR would be lower there would be no reasons to suffer with so pathetic rewards.

I think that with better rewards for winning, maybe some players would be incentivized to try a bit more... but sadly I don't have great hopes with this playerbase.

[J0tt]

It's one of the reasons I stopped doing ops. I was never really a fan but occasionally it was a good distraction. Since you no longer always win, I rather lose a random battle for double the rewards.

[tocqueville8]

10 minutes ago, Bland_42 said:

I don't remember my current WR in Ops, but with some ships is around 80%. That's the only reason that I do a lot of tech-tree grinding in there,

 

Apparently I can push 70% in Ranked Silver with certain ships, including during regrinds (Myoko and New Orleans recently), but it rarely feels as hopeless as early as Ops so often do, since the rework. And yes, the rewards are way better.

[22cm]

If you expect to win, you ll have to carry hard.

 

 

[anonym_FDOLXpxOfXXq]

7 hours ago, Bland_42 said:

With all the chances that my opinion is wrong, I think that your main error was to expect teamplay.

After the rework I sadly feel that this is a wrong approach: if we must believe to Seraphice, currently the Ops players are 3 or 4 times those before, so while before those were specialists (more or less) now a lot of them have no idea how to do a decent match.

 

Usually when I do an Operation I know that I need to carry more than possible, be ready to change my actions based on what my team is doing and I also try to make suggestions (in a "diplomatic" way) to have a bit of support if the team is doing something "strange".

And even with all above, I know that I have a fair chance to fail the Op.

 

I don't remember my current WR in Ops, but with some ships is around 80%. That's the only reason that I do a lot of tech-tree grinding in there, if my WR would be lower there would be no reasons to suffer with so pathetic rewards.

I think that with better rewards for winning, maybe some players would be incentivized to try a bit more... but sadly I don't have great hopes with this playerbase.

Spot on. If you pick only strong ships with PVE builds it gets a bit easier, but you'll still lose between 1 in 10 and 1 in 5 or so.

I still prefer this to randoms since it's not infested with CV, subs, supercrap or whatever, but it definitely changed.

On the other hand, it's good to have more Ops and tiers now, and if I remember correctly some adjustments were announced (aegis and hermes ?).

 

 

[DFens_666]

11 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

you might need to rethink your choice of ship

 

^Id say this.

Playing solo OPs i just go with the hardcarry ships, so something like Mainz, CM, Tallinn, Kutu... (maybe some other Cruisers too). I played 1 solo yesterday with Mainz, sweaty hardcarry. If its so bad, i think its best not to play alone.

 

If you wanna play other ships, best look to play with some friends. @Saltface has made an OPs Discord just for that. 99% of the time its just me, him and @lup3s tho

 

10 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

in the Ultimate Frontier I went straight North along the flank, but my teammates were getting pummelled by the dreadnoughts, so I had to help them instead of pushing for the Atlanta. Maybe a bad call, but we were losing ships already... 

 

ive changed my strategy for this too. I rather take any win than risking a guaranteed loss. Changed my mind when you cant expect teammates to do the simplest tasks. Like in Narai, i stay center as long as the Missouri is dead. I had once lost because the entire team was sitting in the back behind the transports, and they got killed by the Cruisers and Missouri while i was going to transports. I never go for Transports anymore, because you will get lemmings following you. Then you have 4 people there and noone helping the escort ships. If you dont get the transports, its still 4 stars, which is better than a loss. After that i usually go to the CV, because for Cruisers, flank is best to attack inside the harbour. Central entrance is just bad for any ship ofc.

Had one UF where we had 1 BB spawn north because of Divs. So i went fullspeed to the Atlanta to kill it with my Mainz, and it was good i did. Noone else would have done it. So it was a win instead of a guaranteed loss. And if people die to 3 lowtier US BBs, what chance will they have against the waves of DDs, Cruisers and NC/Missouri?

[Bland_42]

8 ore fa, tocqueville8 ha scritto:

Apparently I can push 70% in Ranked Silver with certain ships, including during regrinds (Myoko and New Orleans recently), but it rarely feels as hopeless as early as Ops so often do, since the rework. And yes, the rewards are way better.

About your WR I can only envy you.

 

The rewards thing instead, I know it was nerfed (heavily) than before the rework, but don't remember if there was some comment about it from the CMs (Serphice first to come in mind).

I suspect it's intentional, to "convince" more people to play Random instead... a thing I find really stupid, because an Operation take about the same time than a Random but with a lot lower reward, while Coop can be (usually) a lot faster but with less worse rewards, time wise.

To farm in low commitment environment, Coop is probably better for the average or below average player... instead to try your luck to be carried in Random. You only need mental fortitude to bear the repetitiveness.

[tocqueville8]

2 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Playing solo OPs i just go with the hardcarry ships, so something like Mainz, CM, Tallinn, Kutu... (maybe some other Cruisers too

I didn't think the Shimanto was a bad option, honestly, but maybe I was still in the mindset of using the torps a lot, which is harder now that the bots focus-fire better...

 

The thing is, it's the only ship left for me to grind 

[tocqueville8]

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

I had once lost because the entire team was sitting in the back behind the transports, and they got killed by the Cruisers and Missouri while i was going to transports. I never go for Transports anymore, because you will get lemmings following you. Then you have 4 people there and noone helping the escort ships

Yeah but I even lost Narai one time the team seemed to know what they were doing and planned for it in chat at the start: "I'll go for the transports", said the Shchors...he did and died along the way; "Bismarck can you take the CV?" "Roger!"...she went North and failed miserably.

 

I guess I shouldn't rely on the team in the slightest, but isn't that what Random is for?

[lup3s]

15 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

The reworked Ops just don't work for me. Yesterday I lost 4 in a row in the Shimanto:

• an Aegis where I did 160k dmg to the first two waves but the team got slaughtered and basically every single enemy accompanied the transports all the way South
• a Narai with 350k+ dmg at the end, where we failed all the objective after losing multiple ships along the way.
• Aegis again, but the team scattered at the start, so there wasn't really anyone to stop the first waves
• Ultimate Frontier: the eastern force didn't push North, the planes got wiped out by the bot Atlanta 

Maybe the new AI prevents those infamous Weimars to hog all the kills in Narai, but whoever asked for Operations to be harder than Randoms/Ranked, and for lower rewards?

 

EDIT: tried again, lost again in Narai. Shchors broke South for the transports, died before the Missouri even showed up; Bismarck chased the CV, didn't get her, died; New Mexico was still behind the transports when they entered the base, they got slaughtered...

 

Played 4 Operations with Shimanto yesterday and it was enough to unlock the T9 with the red XP booster.

Won all 4 of them, with an average of 1800 bxp (~50k xp with booster).

Shimanto is not the issue, shitty players / teammates are.

 

I like the Operations to be harder, before they were a walk in the park (almost) every time.

The issue - again - is just the average player being crap at the game; e.g. Aegis, WG had to nerf that Operation and people are still losing it (apparently).

 

WG could make an Op where you fight T1 bots with TXs and some would still find a way to lose.

[159Hunter]

16 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

•  in Narai I was the first to enter the base at a decent time (after going for the transports): most of the team had been sunk or was inexplicably lurking behind our own transports, which got massacred. Only 3 ships made inside the base iirc

This is already the wrong move imo, if you want to ensure a win you stay with the transports and let someone else go farm the enemy transports and or CV. 

As both of those are no win conditions, not completing them is annoying but will not make you lose the game.

Not properly protecting your transports on the other hand will make you lose the game.

 

In essence: play the objective, not the damage farming.

[LiveWire___]

17 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

in Aegis I followed the Fletcher

 

There's your problem, right there.

 

Do NOT follow that idiot Smith. Instead, begun the battle by hooking South behind the first island, tackle first set of bots from the left side. 

 

Then, head north and either flank the second set of bots from their left, or turn back on yourself, through the channel that Smith yolos through, and hook right.

 

Go north from there. 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Get used to it, it happens to me all the time. 

[tocqueville8]

1 hour ago, 159Hunter said:

This is already the wrong move imo, if you want to ensure a win you stay with the transports and let someone else go farm the enemy transports and or CV. 

As both of those are no win conditions, not completing them is annoying but will not make you lose the game.

Not properly protecting your transports on the other hand will make you lose the game.

 

I still got to the base and did good damage in there, but only 2 teammates arrived in time to do anything. I doubt I could've protected the transports on my own for several minutes...

 

8 minutes ago, LiveWire___ said:

There's your problem, right there.

 

Do NOT follow that idiot Smith. Instead, begun the battle by hooking South behind the first island, tackle first set of bots from the left side. 

 

Then, head north and either flank the second set of bots from their left, or turn back on yourself, through the channel that Smith yolos through, and hook right.

 

Go north from there. 

 

I just meant that I used the DD's smoke to farm the first wave. By the time the transports sailed from the North, the first two waves had slaughtered my team despite me doing good damage to them.

[invicta2012]

18 hours ago, IanH755 said:

So then oh uber Operations player, how does 1 single player overcome 6 potatoes with no clue how to play the game, please tell us all so we never lose an operation ever again oh mighty one!!!!!!!!!

 

Of course back in this reality some teams you just can't carry no matter what, I mean you can do well and positioning (i.e. knowing the Op) helps out massively, but at some point you will have to face facts and realise that even a 2500+xp solo performance can't win every game

There is that. Getting reported for telling people to fire at the Aerodromes in Cherry Blossom was fuuuuun. 20 minutes wasted because the team couldn't figure out the principal objective. 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

13 hours ago, 22cm said:

If you expect to win, you ll have to carry hard.

 

 

 

Wow, hands down for that.

Most new ijn cruiser players just ... die :)

 

Should I skip T6/7 in ops and just go for T8?