[NA Forum] How to Dodge Homing Torpedoes

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

[NA Forum] How to Dodge Homing Torpedoes

 

 

"How to Dodge Homing Torpedoes"

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/262261-how-to-dodge-homing-torpedoes/

 

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Following comments from another thread, I'm making this quick reference guide on how to dodge homing torpedoes.

 

Basic 101: Homing

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It is important to understand how the homing mechanic works. The torpedoes don't home to your actual ship, they home into the expected "collision point" between the torpedo trajectory and yours. 

Understanding this concept is very important to understand how to exploit the guidance system in order to avoid the torpedo. The faster you move, the farther ahead from you the collision point is, speed means space, the more space you have the easier it will be to dodge the torpedo. 

Another important aspect is understanding you lead the torpedoes, you set their course as a follow up of your own course and speed. This opens the possibility of leading the torps in the way most convenient to you, you can force the torps into an island or obstacle (or friendly ship if you feel trolly ).

 

Basic 102: Shutoff range

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This is the second critical aspect to understand. It is already well explained in the Wiki so I leave you the link here:

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Torpedoes

The takeaway is torpedoes stop homing at a certain range from the collision point (not your ship). This is critical because the direction in which you are moving can work for or against you, in general terms moving into the torps will win you space, moving away from the torps will lose you space. 

As you can see, moving away from the torps make them more difficult to dodge the faster you move. On extreme cases for very fast DDs the torps can home right into your ship because the shutoff distace is smaller than the collision point, meaning the torp is still homing when it reaches your ship.

It is very important for you to become familiar with the shutoff range values shown in this table (it is in the Wiki)

From studying it you will realize some rules of thumb, the more relevant are:

1. For BBs, torpedoes stop homing around the torpedo spotting range, so you win nothing by using DCP as once you spot it, the torpedo is already not homing. So, don't use DCP to break homing on BBs, for the most part it is useless
2. Double pings on Cruisers and DDs are extremely dangerous, use your DCP if you have it and are in a position to pull the dodge. 
3. On Submarines always use the DCP, you won't be dodging those torps otherwise.

 

Basic 103: The Dodge

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If you are familiar with Tauromaquia (Bull fighting) then dodging torps will come natural to you. The general idea is to feint and lead the torps away from you and then change your direction once the torps stop homing, make an appointment with the torps (at hte collision point) but leave them hanging once they are unable to correct their direction.

The basic steps are:

1. Once you are pinged, immediatly setup up your dodge move according to the direction you want to go and the direction the torps are coming, remember running straingt away is the worst alternative as the torps will home right into you. Try to keep as much angle as possible, around 30-45 degrees is usually enough. 
2. Once you spot the torps keep your bearing steady, don't panic, let them line up to your trajectory. As long as the torps are homing they will adapt to your move so maneuvering is a wasted effort unless you do it to setup a more convenient angle. You need to wait for the shutoff range
3. Once the torps near the shutoff range, then it is when you start pulling your dodge. Cutting speed and turning hard away from the collision point is usually enough to clear the torps.
4. Once you cleared the torps try to regain speed and move wherever you want to move but remember the odds are there will be a next salvo of torps

 

That's it for the basics, hope it is of some help 

 

 

Advanced 201: Your ship characteristics

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The ability to dodge the homing torps is a direct function of your ship performance characteristics. Your ship must be able to react (change course) in the space provided by the shutoff range. Some ships will be better suited for the task while for some other it will be very difficult to pull the maneuver. 

There are 3 key values on your ship to account for dodging homing torps:

1. Rudder Shift Time: The quicker the better, a quick rudder will allow you to change your bearing faster, improving your reaction time and rate of change. Using Improved Rudder modules can provide you significant advantages when dodging homing torpedoes, unlike Prop mod which is largely irrelevant for dodging homing torps. 
2. Turning Circle: The smaller the better, this combines with the Rudder to generate your angular rate of change. The greater your rate of change (how much you can change your bearing in a set time) the better. Turning Circle is a fixed ship value so there's really not much you can do to improve it. 
3. Speed: Speed is important because it is a factor determining the Collision point, as a general rule you will prefer the collision point to be farthest away from your ship, so a high speed is desirable, but consider in case you are retreating from torps the high speed acts against you as it will "pull" the shutoff range closer to your ship.

Remember, dodging is a function of the Rate-of-change of your ship bearing, you can improve your rate of change by improving your rudder time. You can gain "extra" distance to dodge by improving your speed and taking a favorable direction relative to the torps (going towards the torps).

 

Advanced 202: Ping location 

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The placement of the ping on your ship plays a significant role on determining the precise location of the collision point thus impacting your chances to succesfully dodge:

As a general rule a ping on the tip off your bow will provide you maximum separation and will be easier to dodge. 

Pings on the extremes of your ship can also generate a significant "pendulum" effect when you turn your ship. When turning, your ship pivots (like a door) from its center, this can actually make your aft section to generate a movement vector divergent to your actual direction. If timed properly this can be used to "swing" the torps away from you and help you dodge torps trailing after you.

 

Advanced 203: The @El2aZeR corolary 

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This information was previously posted by El2azer, it is relevant so I'm including it here verbatim.

 Homing torps actually aim for your side, not the middle of the ship. This means at high angles they can be evaded with minimal effort if the enemy sub has pinged the wider part of your ship.

 

 

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[NewHorizons_1]

6 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

"How to Dodge Homing Torpedoes"

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/262261-how-to-dodge-homing-torpedoes/

Me : play operations.

[Panocek]

18 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

Me : play operations.

Bigger brain answer: play something else

[hellhound666]

11 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

Me : play operations.

ive also found a surprisingly effective method ... by not playing wows ...

i live pretty close to the sea - homing and not-homing torpedos have not presented any danger 

well, at least till our neighbor wont come to save us from smthg ...

[WingedHussar_Adler]

If anybody, needs instruction how to dodge homing torps that person really needs to dowtier and do some ltp

[Piratenmaedchen]

It's easier to just uninstall the game. 

[WingedHussar_Adler]

3 minutes ago, Piratenmaedchen said:

It's easier to just uninstall the game. 

Nobody will miss "special" players

[arttuperkunas]

Thanks, I really appreciate the guide.

[Ubertron_X]

Nice read, especially the part about the homing not being dependent on the actual distance to your ship but depending on the distance to the imaginary point of impact. I would not and did not guess that from the description in the wiki when I first read it, but it does explain behavior observable ingame (aka frontal dodges are indeed a lot easier).

 

Again what learned.

[Verblonde]

3 hours ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

How to Dodge Homing Torpedoes

Whilst I agree with the 'play something else' sentiment (although my 'something else' does include submarine-free modes/Coop), thank you for posting - that'll be most useful information for those prepared to tolerate submarines.

[Figment]

Nice to see some more exact mechanics detail to refine to what I already did from observation.

 

 

It's also VERY good to see there's still people here that refuse to adapt and learn and will ignore such guides for they think it's hard (it's not). They think they're being rebels, but they're only trolling themselves. :/ Weird people.

 

As I've said a lot of times, these torps are the only enemy weapons that are literally under your control. Why would anyone want to take easily dodgeable hits?

 

A small guide I posted some time ago:

[Viridem]

I didn't know the torpedoes stopped aiming based on the expected collision point, not distance from your ship. I don't think it was explained this way in the official posts...

 

Good post!

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

Good stuff. this is what the forum is about, players teaching players.

 

Plus publicly bitching about 'special' players so we can pretend to be superior. 

[Nov_A]

This is good stuff, especially since the game does not really tell you this. Basically hundreds if not thousands of anti/sub games of experience condensed into digestable information for smooth brain players like me. Sadly I think a lot of it is theoretical and same as with CVs, you cant always do a kickflip to avoid something, without exposing yourself to someone/something else. Map awareness, positioning, island cover and team support/reliance seem to be the most effective counter. Cant get homed, if you cant get pinged.

 

My anti sub success so far has mostly been by the previosly mentioned aspects to avoid or force them, while charging and baiting out pings usually works better than running away.

[NewHorizons_1]

10 minutes ago, Nov_A said:

Sadly I think a lot of it is theoretical and same as with CVs, you cant always do a kickflip to avoid something, without exposing yourself to someone/something else.

While this advice, and other good tips such as those by @Figment above, are no doubt effective the one issue I find is that they tend occur in a 1v1 vacuum.

Yes you can take steps avoid the homing torps, but you then may end up moving out of cover to show broadside to a BB or come into torp range of a DD.

Not to mention a cruiser that was waiting for you to clear the ping and burn you down with fires you can no longer extinguish.

 

The ping+homing mechanism probably wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the poorly implemented counter measures.

[cracktrackflak]

Dodge the torps, instead get citadelled by the BB you were angling against.

 

You are not going to dodge a skilled player in a higher tier sub anyway. I find more effective to simply abandon the flank or axis where the sub is, and leave him to play with himself.

 

There is too much of everything in the game now, which is why it is becoming such a mess.

[Yedwy]

Its BS, I just tried it, a KGV with a rudder mode, now f way one can dodge the homing torps nose in, once they render its 2 late for anything ang KGV with a rudder mod is hardly a slouch in turning, at least for a BB

[NewHorizons_1]

13 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Its BS, I just tried it, a KGV with a rudder mode, now f way one can dodge the homing torps nose in, once they render its 2 late for anything ang KGV with a rudder mod is hardly a slouch in turning, at least for a BB

I've pulled off @Figment's second trick in a random match with GK - not the most manoeuvrable ship in the game.

But as @Nov_A points out, it'll often leave you exposed in a vulnerable position - which it did.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

I've pulled off @Figment's second trick in a random match with GK - not the most manoeuvrable ship in the game.

But as @Nov_A points out, it'll often leave you exposed in a vulnerable position - which it did.

The trick is to from the getgo anticipate the sub as obviously if there is one in the game you should play like there is one from the start and position yourself on a way in which you won't be vulnerable to people due to a sub attack.

 

I mean you are already doing so against DDs if you know there is one flanking you right? somehow dodging their torps with everyone else shooting you works because you anticipate him no? Just do the same for subs.

[Yedwy]

6 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

The trick is to from the getgo anticipate the sub as obviously if there is one in the game you should play like there is one from the start and position yourself on a way in which you won't be vulnerable to people due to a sub attack.

 

I mean you are already doing so against DDs if you know there is one flanking you right? somehow dodging their torps with everyone else shooting you works because you anticipate him no? Just do the same for subs.

And this is in essence the only real counter... 

 

IE unless one is in something that is really really well suited to hunt her down and one knows a capable sub is at a given area - they should be somewhere else... 

 

Top game design by WG, everybody should throw some money at them to reward that kind of competitive design... 

 

And WG wonders why nobody takes them seriously with e-sports ambitions... 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

3 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

And WG wonders why nobody takes them seriously with e-sports ambitions... 

WG isn't really going for that anymore anyway. They don't have the playernumbers and the best clan out there at the moment outclassed the "competition" by quite a margin. Also it would require WG to completely change their balancing approach which would kill the current playerbase and ask for removal of a ton of ships which is just unrealistic 

[tocqueville8]

If I read this correctly, if I get pinged in the open the best strategy is to:

• go more or less towards the sub, with a 45° angle from the straight line
• when the torps reach the expected break-off point (at the shut-off distance from the expected collision point), turn in to make them overshoot my bow
• okay, I've dodged them
• now I'm even closer to the sub, even closer to the enemy team and even more in trouble...and more torps are coming 

[Piratenmaedchen]

Vor 6 Stunden, WingedHussar_Adler sagte:

Nobody will miss "special" players

Of course I won't miss you. Why should I?

[Figment]

5 hours ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

While this advice, and other good tips such as those by @Figment above, are no doubt effective the one issue I find is that they tend occur in a 1v1 vacuum.

Yes you can take steps avoid the homing torps, but you then may end up moving out of cover to show broadside to a BB or come into torp range of a DD.

Not to mention a cruiser that was waiting for you to clear the ping and burn you down with fires you can no longer extinguish.

 

The ping+homing mechanism probably wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the poorly implemented counter measures.

 

4 hours ago, cracktrackflak said:

Dodge the torps, instead get citadelled by the BB you were angling against.

I know this sounds annoying, but try to anticipate where a sub might force you into such a position and don't get into that position in the first place till you've cleared threats or moved the scene of engagement with the sub to one where you've got cover from higher islands to protect your sides. Note, this doesn't mean hug the island, at all. It means that while you maneouvre, you've blocked off some enemies from engaging you. Staying mobile is in fact important, but you need to stay mobile such that most the paths the sub has with a shot on you will inadvertantly be blocked by islands on a regular basis. Either forcing the sub to dumb fire (which you can avoid by simply moving around), or expose itself by pinging for homing torps in situations where it's not advantageous for it. Either way you can force it to get close. And while a lot of people fear shotgunning, proximity is actually the best chance you have to expose and kill it. Dangerous? Can be, so don't give it a lot of time to get a shot on you and by all means, avoid giving a broadside with time to get (homing) torps on you to it.

 

Most the time a sub pings, you can just ignore the ping if you ensure your routes are often passing rocks and your exposure is limited to semi-small openings between outcroppings. The smaller the windows of opportunity, the closer the sub has to be and the more haste it'll have to get the torps off (which means worse aim and more chances of it fouling up).

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You are not going to dodge a skilled player in a higher tier sub anyway. I find more effective to simply abandon the flank or axis where the sub is, and leave him to play with himself.

You can. You won't if you don't believe there be any reason to try though. I wouldn't abandon the flank because of a sub. Instead you need to take the fight to it when the opportunity presents itself. You do need to keep your flank somewhat organised and close together so you can overwhelm the sub when it is exposed. And it will expose itself. If you position yourself right, it'll have to do so from a limited amount of angles and you give it a limited window to get a torp directed at you.

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There is too much of everything in the game now, which is why it is becoming such a mess.

Kinda agree, but that's not the fault of the sub design and something that could be fixed if the MM would link classes like CV and subs (either one or at most a limited combi of them), rather than subs with DD. And of course, keep a tally of the amount of radar ships in a match.

3 hours ago, Yedwy said:

And this is in essence the only real counter... 

And requires insight, which most players lack and due to the fearmongering and stigmatising refuse to get for themselves by playing subs, making it easy for better sub players to leverage their intelligence, experience and insight advantages.

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IE unless one is in something that is really really well suited to hunt her down and one knows a capable sub is at a given area - they should be somewhere else... 

Tbh, you can kill subs with anything. Just have to keep it under water long enough without getting a clear shot that it pops up for air. I've done that with a Leone and that has no ASW or hydro at all.

 

1 hour ago, tocqueville8 said:

If I read this correctly, if I get pinged in the open the best strategy is to:

• go more or less towards the sub, with a 45° angle from the straight line

Significantly less than 45°, more like 15-20° so you don't need to make a huge turn, 45° is too close to giving it a broadside IMO, as it allows the sub to ping you at a point where it's not coming for your nose, but your side and the angle might be too orthogonal to dodge. Slow down asap and turn into the torps.

 

Though I do sometimes use terrain for extreme fast breaking with BBs, like torps coming from left front while I sail at max speed with an island close to my right, then I just wait for the right moment to push my nose into the island and come to an instant stop with torps passing by in front and barely a change in angle. But that's very situational. usualy making them pass in front of you is easier. If they come from behind you can try similar things, but those are much harder to avoid, especially since there's a good chance they can renew the ping, whereas if you move behind an island (or even if the torps just think you will while you stay out in view, angled such that you can fire backwards) then getting a new ping on target will be harder, but even if they do get a ping on you, the torps would just be lead into terrain.

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• when the torps reach the expected break-off point (at the shut-off distance from the expected collision point), turn in to make them overshoot my bow
• okay, I've dodged them

If you did it correctly, yes. :)

 

I would add that these approach runs shouldn't be done when there's like 8-9km between you and the sub. See below why you should only do so if it's within 6km.

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• now I'm even closer to the sub {A}, even closer to the enemy team and even more in trouble...{B} and more torps are coming {C} 

{A} yes, good. You can get into ASW range on it. If you also fire HE at where it is, it will have to dive, reducing its situational awareness significantly. If you don't have ASW in range, but have hydro, you can likely expose it as it dives.

{B} You should try to do this in a situation where the sub has been isolated. Usualy I ignore the sub till it's come close enough out of frustration of not being able to hit that it overextends. It should be closer to your team. Usualy I also wait with engaging till the most relevant nearby enemy team members have been killed. It's not like you chase the CV before you kill most the enemy team either, right? Right? ...Right?

 

Though often enough the sub overextends and exposes itself it might actually be the first kill of the match. This only happens when your team doesn't cower, but stays close to the front, without going full exposure in open water.

 

{C} Not always. The closer the sub launched its torps, the longer it will take before you'll see torps heading your way again, since there was a shorter time between seeing torps and them having been launched. In which case you can have a free minute, which is often enough to get over or next to the sub at which point your turrets and ASW flexibility will have the advantage over its nose/butt pointing and you can typically outmaneouvre it.

[Hugh_Ruka]

The problem is this, if you slow down to avoid the torps, you are now too slow to avoid the next batch. Sub reloads too quickly. Also why is the homing shutoff different for different ships ? I have not noticed normal torps having different detection distance for different ship classes.

 

But anyway, complaining about them makes no sense at this moment. I just had a hilarious experience yesterday. In Farragut, behind island, Gokase and a German BB on the other side of the island. I could see enemy sub ping 3-4km from me in open water and could do NOTHING about it. I literally see where he is but have no means of reaching him. I can at least blind fire into smoke and such, there is at least a placebo effect of AA firing at planes. But submarines are completely infuriating for ships that don't have ASW airstrikes.