Canarias vs Aoba?

[morti271]

Hey guys,

I just got the Canarias and I kinda like it, but it feels a bit weak imho.
I'm just going to compare it to the Aoba:

 

• Aoba has 6x203 mm guns with 11 seconds reload, 4700 max AP damage and decent ballistics.

 

• Canarias has 8x203 mm guns with 12 seconds reload, 3800 max AP damage and pretty bad ballistics.

 

That's 28.200 salvo damage for the Aoba and a slightly better 30.400 salvo damage for the Canarias.

Or 153.800 DPM for the Aoba and 152.000 DPM for the Canarias.

 

• Aoba has good HE shells, Canarias has none.

 

• Canarias has 1.3 km more range

 

• Aoba has good torpedos, Canarias has none.

 

• Aoba is a flaoting citadel for sure, but Canarias doesn't feel much tankier.

 

• Canarias has slightly better AA.

 

• Both ships have similar speed, handling, and concealment.

 

A cruiser that sacrifices torpedoes and HE at the same time should get something useful in return.

Average 203mm guns that can only fire AP are not the answer.

As the Canarias does not have her initial rapid-fire mode, I think 1 or 2 seconds faster reload would suit her.

What do you think? Did I miss something?

morti271

[bobtherterrible]

If you prefer Aoba, play that instead. You don't have to like everything!

[morti271]

It's not about what I prefer, but about the balance of two ships of the same tier and class.

In my opinion the Canarias is pretty much strictly worse.
I still like it though.

[webaake]

I agree, a bit faster reload would be great for Canarias.  

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

"not every ship can be good"

 

I mean.. there is Schröder. Just relegate to Snowflake duty if seriously disappointed or you suck with it. I rather like it, it hits quite hard.

[arttuperkunas]

Canarias is a terrible ship.

 

It’s kind of like pensacola in having ap with better pen angles, but pensacola is way,, way better. Canarias has speed boost and better concealment… and that’s it. It’s a ship that has bad guns and bad armour, without the gimmicks to make up for its crippling flaws. Easily one of, if not the worst cruisers at t6, which is pretty dire given the general state of mid tier cruisers.

[Panocek]

2 hours ago, morti271 said:

It's not about what I prefer, but about the balance of two ships of the same tier and class.

In my opinion the Canarias is pretty much strictly worse.
I still like it though.

Canarias, just like Dido were balanced around price of free. You can't really expect a welfare ship to be actually good, can you?

[allufewig]

Nah you didnt miss anything, OP. Canarias is a pile of sh1t. Finding a some rare positive moments with it is possible (especially if you desperately want to), but it's like extracting undigested edible seed from said sh1t. It's disgusting to do, there is no success guaranteed, and it is generally not worth the time trying.

[arttuperkunas]

7 minutes ago, allufewig said:

Nah you didnt miss anything, OP. Canarias is a pile of sh1t. Finding a some rare positive moments with it is possible (especially if you desperately want to), but it's like extracting undigested edible seed from said sh1t. It's disgusting to do, there is no success guaranteed, and it is generally not worth the time trying.

This

[Ubertron_X]

1. The Canarias is not a good ship.

2. The Canarias has better battle stats then the Aoba (probably because she is never stock and has a better captains), win rate, average damage, you name it, and this stays true even if you switch to top 5% of all players.

3. The Canarias is one of the fastest CA's on T6, going as fast as 39.8kt when her speed boost is running, only losing out on De Grasse. Makes running down DDs late game really easy.

4. The Canarias has good survivability if - and this is a big if - you are able to use her superior range and still hit (as well as having faster turrets, better angles, more base HP, a lower citadel, spaced armor and even a mini turtleback).

 

All that having been said, I would also rate and chose the Aoba over the Canarias, however even if we all are of this very opinion this does not explain the apparent difference in overall performance.

[Figment]

3 hours ago, Ubertron_X said:

All that having been said, I would also rate and chose the Aoba over the Canarias, however even if we all are of this very opinion this does not explain the apparent difference in overall performance.

People broadside with Aoba’s to get the torps on target.

 

Then boom.

 

Why would people broadside a Canarias instead of staying angled?

[Shirakami_Kon]

6 hours ago, morti271 said:

Did I miss something?

Free ship.

[BLUB__BLUB]

4 hours ago, Ubertron_X said:

this does not explain the apparent difference in overall performance

No, but the fact that every tater has to play to Aoba to go further up the line, does.

Lots of people blunder their way through Aoba. Canarias.. mostly people that play a lot, and/or people that are good, have it.

 

Same as Dido... should be crap... but... here's mine. And I'm not that good.

I wonder what Canarias is gonna be like. 

 

Spoiler

 

[allufewig]

1 hour ago, Figment said:

 

Why would people broadside a Canarias instead of staying angled?

 

Use all the gunZ

[ReDiR20]

Doesn't Canarias get an improved AP? I didn't play much of Canarias, but in upcoming T6 ranked it should be some of the best choice to punish those broadsides. Plus decent armor and speed boost

[Panocek]

31 minutes ago, ReDiR20 said:

Doesn't Canarias get an improved AP? I didn't play much of Canarias, but in upcoming T6 ranked it should be some of the best choice to punish those broadsides. Plus decent armor and speed boost

She does have improved ricochet angles and increased fuse sensitivity, but damage and flight time are worse than contemporaries. Penetration is on lower end, between Trento and Aoba, and both these have potent backup shells.

 

if you want cruiser to smash broadsides, Pensacola. Same improved ricochets, 10 guns instead 8, fully functional AP damage, pen as well HE backup. 25mm plating everywhere also helps against those who would bring anything smaller than 380mm

[FlyingBender]

Canarias was nerfed to the ground before come out and didn't get nothing important in return.

[arttuperkunas]

2 hours ago, Panocek said:

She does have improved ricochet angles and increased fuse sensitivity, but damage and flight time are worse than contemporaries. Penetration is on lower end, between Trento and Aoba, and both these have potent backup shells.

 

if you want cruiser to smash broadsides, Pensacola. Same improved ricochets, 10 guns instead 8, fully functional AP damage, pen as well HE backup. 25mm plating everywhere also helps against those who would bring anything smaller than 380mm

I concur. Why take dented Pensacola when you can take the real thing, also equipped with decent (if not amazing) HE shells.

[morti271]

17 hours ago, Shirakami_Kon said:

Free ship.

It's for "free", sure.
But they are throwing out free real premium ships anyway.

I got an Okhotnik and Orkan from containers the last week, a buddy got Hyuga and Giuseppe Verdi from containers just for linking Prime.

Sure, it's luck-based and you get random ships, but still.

[Shirakami_Kon]

25 minutes ago, morti271 said:

It's for "free", sure.
But they are throwing out free real premium ships anyway.

I got an Okhotnik and Orkan from containers the last week, a buddy got Hyuga and Giuseppe Verdi from containers just for linking Prime.

Sure, it's luck-based and you get random ships, but still.

True, but the supercontainer chance to drop a ship is quite low, most of those ships get to be sold for real money, which WG gets to see. Canarias and Dido were designed to be rewards for missions from the get go, they didn't even put them in the premium shop afterwards for people who missed it/just didn't want to grind the missions to just throw money at the game to get the ship, so this is the amount of effort you get from them for that.

[ZygZag]

On 1/16/2023 at 4:57 PM, morti271 said:

Hey guys,

I just got the Canarias and I kinda like it, but it feels a bit weak imho.
I'm just going to compare it to the Aoba:

 

• Aoba has 6x203 mm guns with 11 seconds reload, 4700 max AP damage and decent ballistics.

 

• Canarias has 8x203 mm guns with 12 seconds reload, 3800 max AP damage and pretty bad ballistics.

 

That's 28.200 salvo damage for the Aoba and a slightly better 30.400 salvo damage for the Canarias.

Or 153.800 DPM for the Aoba and 152.000 DPM for the Canarias.

 

• Aoba has good HE shells, Canarias has none.

 

• Canarias has 1.3 km more range

 

• Aoba has good torpedos, Canarias has none.

 

• Aoba is a flaoting citadel for sure, but Canarias doesn't feel much tankier.

 

• Canarias has slightly better AA.

 

• Both ships have similar speed, handling, and concealment.

 

A cruiser that sacrifices torpedoes and HE at the same time should get something useful in return.

Average 203mm guns that can only fire AP are not the answer.

As the Canarias does not have her initial rapid-fire mode, I think 1 or 2 seconds faster reload would suit her.

What do you think? Did I miss something?

morti271

I do wonder if you have ever tried to find any data about the ships historical guns and ammo? 

 

I bet you did not. At last WG had quite well reproduced reality. What is (IMO) only problem is that lighter Spanish equivalent of British 8" (20.3 cm) Mark VIII had also HE (116.12 kg) available and real Canarias had them.

 

I am far, far away from being ethusiast of many WG ideas about SF ships, but at that case it is only history based decision.

[Yedwy]

On 1/16/2023 at 4:57 PM, morti271 said:

A cruiser that sacrifices torpedoes and HE at the same time should get something useful in return.

She was supposed to get the burst fire mode similar to what Edgar has IIRC and then WG pulled out in the last moment and removed it compansating it with nothing, now she is crappier London/Devonshire without smoke/heal, torps or HE and WG just boosted the numbers with the New Year task to make it look like people want her...

 

Imho unless for collector value as a port queen - sell and forget

[BLUB__BLUB]

15 hours ago, Yedwy said:

Imho unless for collector value as a port queen - sell and forget

...and then you get it back again in a container. 

[Fediuld]

On 1/16/2023 at 5:57 PM, morti271 said:

Hey guys,

I just got the Canarias and I kinda like it, but it feels a bit weak imho.
I'm just going to compare it to the Aoba:

 

A cruiser that sacrifices torpedoes and HE at the same time should get something useful in return.

Average 203mm guns that can only fire AP are not the answer.

As the Canarias does not have her initial rapid-fire mode, I think 1 or 2 seconds faster reload would suit her.

What do you think? Did I miss something?

 

Each ship is different with different mechanics. If you do not like instead of asking changes to it, do not play it. 

 

Canarias is a nice cruiser. Haven't played much of it, but on the battle took it out, performed admirably. 

[ReverendFlashback]

The only good thing about this ship is hitting dds with its short fuse ap (and to be fair its speed).

Had just one game with it, and while it wasn't that bad, fighting bbs was a nightmare.

Also ballistics are just meh and felt overall pretty bad.