What happened to the AI?

[Felixshoen]

Explain to me please why the AI in operations seems....normal and the AI in co-op seems to play like a person stuck in a house with a gas leak.  The co-op AI beaches itself, shoots at a targets 20km away and ignores those right in its face, and will sail across the map just to park outside a cap.  Any way you can use the AI from operations in the co-op?  At least make the AI "seem" to want to win.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Could it be that Coop AI is designed to mimic player behavior?

[Felixshoen]

Maybe, but that's not the point. The point is to get wargaming to put the better AI back in co-op.  Co-op was not like this a few patches ago.  

[ColonelPete]

Since when does WoWs use AI? WoWs uses simple algorithms.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

Since when does WoWs use AI? WoWs uses simple algorithms.

 

Some elaboration is required.

[Fatal_Ramses]

2 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

 

Some elaboration is required.

Some weird things I see from time to time in coop.

-Bots sometimes get a target fixation on you and what you are doing. Dodges all your torpedoes launched 5km away only to eat all 5 torpedoes launched 20km away.

-Sometimes the whole bot team targets one and the same DD for some weird reason. Causes a huge migration to that DDs specific location.

-Weirdest things are when a bots makes through its path without encountering any players and just stops in your spawn.

[Benaulim]

25 minutes ago, Fatal_Ramses said:

Some weird things I see from time to time in coop.

-Bots sometimes get a target fixation on you and what you are doing. Dodges all your torpedoes launched 5km away only to eat all 5 torpedoes launched 20km away.

-Sometimes the whole bot team targets one and the same DD for some weird reason. Causes a huge migration to that DDs specific location.

-Weirdest things are when a bots makes through its path without encountering any players and just stops in your spawn.

 

Nothing weird here. A bot having targetted you will react to your moves, i.e. when you launch torps and then alter course or speed it will also alter course. When you smoke up it will choose another target and head towards it. Altering course slows it down (and yes, it will accelerate when starting to run straight again) depending on its class, of course. Also bots (as well as planes) head towards the target closest to them even when not spotted yet. That said when you got fast DDs advancing fast or even using a booster early they will lure all enemies closer to them than to any other hostile ship. It's pretty obvious with only a single DD on a flank. You can than witness bots from the opposite flank heading there. Same with the bots on your team. The real ones ... *grins*. When they turn away early there most likely is a fast bot DD advancing elsewhere.

[DirtyHeddy]

39 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Since when does WoWs use AI? WoWs uses simple algorithms.

And very simple indeed.

They have failed to implement anything which deserves the designation AI.

 

But to be honest: a few years ago (before the first CV rework) the "AI" was a little closer to become a real AI

 

Since then they have corrupted it one time after another with each announcement to improve it.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

12 minutes ago, DirtyHeddy said:

And very simple indeed.

They have failed to implement anything which deserves the designation AI.

 

But to be honest: a few years ago (before the first CV rework) the "AI" was a little closer to become a real AI

 

Since then they have corrupted it one time after another with each announcement to improve it.

 

Makes you wonder where we'd be if WG hadn't been constantly doing these improvements.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

1 hour ago, Felixshoen said:

Explain to me please why the AI in operations seems....normal and the AI in co-op seems to play like a person stuck in a house with a gas leak.  The co-op AI beaches itself, shoots at a targets 20km away and ignores those right in its face, and will sail across the map just to park outside a cap.  Any way you can use the AI from operations in the co-op?  At least make the AI "seem" to want to win.

Ai become better player than 50% of wows players

[Mr_Damager]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

Since when does WoWs use AI? WoWs uses simple algorithms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence_in_video_games

You think you look smart, don't you?

[Fatal_Ramses]

1 hour ago, Benaulim said:

A bot having targetted you will react to your moves, i.e. when you launch torps and then alter course or speed it will also alter course.

Yeah, but they become totally oblivious anything other launched their way, its just so weird. They give you a 100% of their attention

[ColonelPete]

49 minutes ago, Mr_Damager said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence_in_video_games

You think you look smart, don't you?

I suggest to read the entry, then you would know that is not AI.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

I suggest to read the entry, then you would know that is not AI.

 

 

Since this is WG we all know and.. love (?), dare I suggest we call instead call it GS as in genuine stupidity?

[Schelfie]

9 hours ago, Fatal_Ramses said:

Yeah, but they become totally oblivious anything other launched their way, its just so weird. They give you a 100% of their attention

The times i got shot by 3,4, even 5 AI ships at one time from 15 - 20 km's away (and more!), just because I was spotted first, whilst the DD's and CA of my team are almost next to them (1 - 5 km's away) and can torp them to oblivion cannot be count anymore. Quite irritating, certainly now with those stupid dockyardmissions...

[Mr_Damager]

9 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

I suggest to read the entry, then you would know that is not AI.

I posted the link for you to read. That is called AI no matter how you slice it.

True AI has not been invented yet.

[ColonelPete]

9 minutes ago, Mr_Damager said:

I posted the link for you to read. That is called AI no matter how you slice it.

True AI has not been invented yet.

Thay is why asked you to read it. You can call a trolley are race car, but that does not make it a race car.

AI are self-improving and self-optmizing algorithms. Something that is already invented.

[Mr_Damager]

9 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Thay is why asked you to read it. You can call a trolley are race car, but that does not make it a race car.

AI are self-improving and self-optmizing algorithms. Something that is already invented.

And how do you know how exactly WoWS works?

12 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Since when does WoWs use AI? WoWs uses simple algorithms.

Are you one of the WoWS developers/coders/programmers? I thought you were just a player like me.

[ColonelPete]

7 minutes ago, Mr_Damager said:

And how do you know how exactly WoWS works?

Are you one of the WoWS developers/coders/programmers? I thought you were just a player like me.

Just look at the bot behaviour. There is nothing self-improving there.

The bots sail out of their own smoke.

[Mr_Damager]

21 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Just look at the bot behaviour. There is nothing self-improving there.

The bots sail out of their own smoke.

Let's say you know how Co-op bots work because you see it (simple algorithms, blah blah blah). But you don't know how the game works. You can never be sure that all random players aren't bots.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 23 Minuten, Mr_Damager sagte:

Let's say you know how Co-op bots work because you see it (simple algorithms, blah blah blah). But you don't know how the game works. You can never be sure that all random players aren't bots.

How do you know that ColonelPete is not a forum bot? Read his mails and you will see simple behavioral patterns, just like the bots in co-op. 

[ColonelPete]

50 minutes ago, Mr_Damager said:

Let's say you know how Co-op bots work because you see it (simple algorithms, blah blah blah). But you don't know how the game works. You can never be sure that all random players aren't bots.

That is why I did not make a statement about random players. We know that there is botting from time to time.

[Hugh_Ruka]

14 hours ago, Felixshoen said:

Explain to me please why the AI in operations seems....normal and the AI in co-op seems to play like a person stuck in a house with a gas leak.  The co-op AI beaches itself, shoots at a targets 20km away and ignores those right in its face, and will sail across the map just to park outside a cap.  Any way you can use the AI from operations in the co-op?  At least make the AI "seem" to want to win.

IIRC that was tried once already, the co-op mains cried in horror as their WR fell by 20% :-)

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Part of the problem is people go coop for very different reasons. Either they believe it's a more time efficient way of grinding xp, giving more consistent returns for time spent as opposed to the randoms. Many use coop for particular missions. Then some may hope it's a kind of ersatz random battle mode, where you can have random battles but hopefully with better gameplay than what the randoms have. These expectations tend to be mutually exclusive.

[stefanorgano]

17 hours ago, Felixshoen said:

Any way you can use the AI from operations in the co-op?  At least make the AI "seem" to want to win.

They tried, once.

Then after like one week of testing they had to bail on the idea because apparently co-op mains' WR dropped down catastrophically overnight and they were rioting all over the place.