Stop making over powered premium ships

[arttuperkunas]

5 hours ago, Kalonianhydra said:

there are too many OP premiums in the game.
Way to many.
Tromp
Black
Kid
F. Sherman
to name a few, but here are many more.

Black is strong, and IMO situationally OP (for example in ranked)

 

Kidd is good, but not OP

 

F Sherman is situationally strong, but not generally a great ship for carrying games. Hardly OP

 

Tromp is generally considered to be a weak ship with an interesting gimmick, also bad at carrying games

 

Sounds like a l2p issue

[Melkador]

Are there OP ships in the sense that all other parameters in a random battle considered being equal (player skill that is), their presence can robustly predetermine the outcome with statistical significance? 

 

To answer conclusively a thorough (and non-static) examination/comparison of ship stats must be made but intuitively I would answer on the negative regarding higher tiers.

 

Tiers III-IV are another issue but generally our WG financial overlords usually address such imbalances (while ignoring others ofc...).

[SurfaceFish]

If you talking about OP DD, look no further than Siroco and Gremyashchy at T5, both can bully DD, cruisers and BB in random and ranked, even good enough to carry in T7 games.

 

Haven't lost a single game in this ranked season yet in those 2 DD.

 

I don't think there is an OP DD in T10, even Smaland, as they can be countered by fast firing guns like the Minotaur and long range Soviet radars. There are no DD in T10 can just open water gun boating or stealth torp all the red teams without been countered, (unless you are 0.1% God DD player).

[SurfaceFish]

4 hours ago, Cpt_ZombZan_GR said:

they are freemiums not premiums except kidd

 

You can get the Kidd for free with community tokens exchange for premium ship loot box, so it can be considered freemiums I guess.

[Panocek]

53 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

 

You can get the Kidd for free with community tokens exchange for premium ship loot box, so it can be considered freemiums I guess.

AFAIK those scamboxes from Community section of the Armory end at tier 7? 

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

AFAIK those scamboxes from Community section of the Armory end at tier 7? 

How does the scam work if one does not pay for them?

[SurfaceFish]

12 minutes ago, Panocek said:

AFAIK those scamboxes from Community section of the Armory end at tier 7? 

 

[imoenbg1]

The funniest part of the OP original statement is the most OP premiums have been unavailable for years, so yes, WG stopped making them.

 

Kamikaze, OG Belfast and GC, I am looking at you.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

9 hours ago, Kalonianhydra said:

Just take the F. Sherman, that ship is way OP.

And there are so much conclusive prof of this. And you all know it.
It's just the owners of the ships that doesn't want to admit it.

Then why dont you show us?

[TheAlba2014]

3 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Then why dont you show us?

It is top sekret tovarish! 

[LiveWire___]

11 hours ago, Northern_Nightowl said:

So, this statement should be appealed and reworked to "cruisers are the most oppressed class".

 

This.

 

Cruisers are indeed, IMHO, the most oppressed class. 

 

I should know. I'm in the painful process of attempting to convert to cruiser main. 

 

It hurts. A lot. 

 

Cruisers are to this game what Spellswords are to role-playing.

[HMS_Kilinowski]

On 1/15/2023 at 12:02 PM, Kalonianhydra said:

there are too many OP premiums in the game.
Way to many.
Tromp
Black
Kid
F. Sherman
to name a few, but here are many more.

 

I respectfully disagree. Statistically speaking, most ships only have a minor influence of the outcome of a battle.

The winrates of ships vary between 44% and 60%. Now this is just the nominal impact. You gotta take into account selectivity. The ships with the lowest winrates are low tier ships of new lines, that every semi-active player skips during early access. I personally haven't played aT5 ship or below of a new line for the last 4 years. So these ships are never played by decent players, only by tourists. Tourists don't know how to play, so they drag the ship stats down with them. So the 44% do not reflect the power of the ship, but mostly of the casual players.

 

For the top end, the opposite is true. Good premium ships are mostly old ships, owned mostly by long-term players. Long-term players are usually comparatively good at the game. On top they have most of the unique commanders and trained those to 21 points. So they use a fully trained commander, even on low tier premium ships. This impact of good player quality and good equipment stacks with the rather good ships. So a ship like the Kamikaze has 60% winrate, when in reality, probably 3 percentage points are driven by the selection of good players, and another 2 percentage point by the matching of a 21 point unique commander against some T5 commander with 10 points or less.

 

In short, the difference in winrates between the best and worst ships is mostly driven by a difference in typical player quality and the possibility to use certain commanders. The impact of the ship is way lower.

This leaves very few ship designs that are actually overpowered. Even those designs mostly depend on a competent player.

To break it down to a simple example: A Kamikaze has 60% winrate. A Kamikaze R has 57%. It's the same ship, only one was available for free and is played by more mediocre players than the other, which is played more by whales. And still, if you put a 45% player in a Kamikaze, he will lose against a 55% player in Mutsuki. Why? Cause player quality matters more than ship properties.

 

If people were so obsessed with being overpowered themselves, rather than certain ships being over- or underpowered, we'd have less of these misguided topics and more topics on tactics in this forum.

[Hugh_Ruka]

20 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Tromp?

The rest is strong, but not OP.

OmG, I agree with Pete for once ...

[Figment]

Most those ships are entirely situational. They have to be played to their strengths and sure, if the situation (and enemies) allow it any DD can dominate really. I do find it hard for some DDs to compete in direct duels however, which can be troublesome if you lack appropriate support from your allies to make up for your own lack of firepower.

[TonyStarkshoudnthavedied]

22 hours ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

DDs are the most oppressed class, supershits, CVs, supershit CVs, radar, hydro, submersible scum and now forumites who still complain about DDs... srsly?!

I get the pain, but cruisers are the real pariahs of the game in the recent meta. Dds are doing well in average hands.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

4 hours ago, TonyStarkshoudnthavedied said:

I get the pain, but cruisers are the real pariahs of the game in the recent meta. Dds are doing well in average hands.

If you differentiate in light cruisers and heavy cruisers, yes, light cruisers have issues. Everyone loves shooting them as they do these funny "plopp" sounds when you hit with your 457mm guns (which everyone and their brother now features) and the player base has slowly gained the knowledge that killing DDs will win the game (and they won't get torped that much).

 

Also light cruisers lost their AA with the REEEEEEwork but at least gained exactly nothing in return. Then the ctaptain skill rework hit and nerfed the fire protection away from Stalins own wet dream, but also all DD caliber cruisers lost access to all the DD gunboat skills. But BBabies cried over getting farmed by Smolensk while incidentally it was totally ok to simply delete cruisers in a single lucky salvo, but well.... I can't fathom the reasons why BBs would need even more protected gameplay.

[Verblonde]

Probably just echoing others, but it looks an awful lot like the OP simply has a problem with ships that don't play in a similar way to the norm. Black - for example - has radar which can be quite nasty if the Black user knows how to make use of it, and the opposition doesn't know how to mitigate it, Tromp has her air-drop, Sherman her smoke/dakka (and lousy torps), and so on.

 

This used to be (and still is against a typical 45% player) the thing with Lo Yang: the cruiser sonar, combined with smoke, and decent dakka is pretty fearsome, yet most experienced players know how to deal with it. So, the instinct the first time you meet a Lo Yang may be to scream 'waaaaah - OP!', but she really isn't once you take the time to work out how to deal with her.

 

There really are very few OP premiums in the game (you can make a case for one or two discontinued ones, although mine may be broke - I have a higher WR in the relevant tech tree T5 than I do in Kami), but there are quite a few which may seem it if the opposition don't know how to deal with their particular foibles (in my experience, often things to do with vision control).

[Fediuld]

On 1/15/2023 at 1:02 PM, Kalonianhydra said:

there are too many OP premiums in the game.
Way to many.
Tromp
Black
Kid
F. Sherman
to name a few, but here are many more.

 

On 1/15/2023 at 2:00 PM, Kalonianhydra said:

 Deal with it.

I think you answered your own question 

[arttuperkunas]

44 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Probably just echoing others, but it looks an awful lot like the OP simply has a problem with ships that don't play in a similar way to the norm. Black - for example - has radar which can be quite nasty if the Black user knows how to make use of it, and the opposition doesn't know how to mitigate it, Tromp has her air-drop, Sherman her smoke/dakka (and lousy torps), and so on.

 

This used to be (and still is against a typical 45% player) the thing with Lo Yang: the cruiser sonar, combined with smoke, and decent dakka is pretty fearsome, yet most experienced players know how to deal with it. So, the instinct the first time you meet a Lo Yang may be to scream 'waaaaah - OP!', but she really isn't once you take the time to work out how to deal with her.

 

There really are very few OP premiums in the game (you can make a case for one or two discontinued ones, although mine may be broke - I have a higher WR in the relevant tech tree T5 than I do in Kami), but there are quite a few which may seem it if the opposition don't know how to deal with their particular foibles (in my experience, often things to do with vision control).

Benham is imo legit op, and smaland to a lesser degree. In terms of dds above t6(1)… that’s pretty much it.

[Verblonde]

10 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

Benham is imo legit op, and smaland to a lesser degree. In terms of dds above t6(1)… that’s pretty much it.

I still can't decide if Benham is OP or not (or if I'm just doing it wrong - good chance); detection distance is okay, torps are pretty monstrous, but I struggle to influence the game as much as I would in something that's a better DD hunter. It's probably just me being rubbish; far better players than me seem to be consistent that she's OP...

 

At my (low) level of competence, killing DDs tends to win battles more than making fatties' lives miserable.

[arttuperkunas]

20 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I still can't decide if Benham is OP or not (or if I'm just doing it wrong - good chance); detection distance is okay, torps are pretty monstrous, but I struggle to influence the game as much as I would in something that's a better DD hunter. It's probably just me being rubbish; far better players than me seem to be consistent that she's OP...

 

At my (low) level of competence, killing DDs tends to win battles more than making fatties' lives miserable.

Benham wrecks dds, at least in randoms. Just flood likely dd approach avenues and smokeclouds with torp spam, and laugh all the way to the bank. After enemy dds is dead, squat in or near the cap and torp everything that tries to push in. Ez game influence.

[TSD_87]

I was called a wanker for blapping a T6 CVs planes out of the sky this week with my Kidd, but he didnt call the boat OP.

Then proceeded to gun him down, since he was 10km away.

 

I would like to suggest we from now-on call all the players playing these OP ships wankers.

[RazorBlade72]

As a below average player I would say that I think the following ships that I play are OP:

 

Kamikaze (R)

T-61

 

Even I can get good winrates with these ships. I don't have them very long so it can be coincidence but I don't think so.  

[Kalonianhydra]

Petropavlosk is also one.

[Nov_A]

On 1/19/2023 at 4:40 PM, RazorBlade72 said:

As a below average player I would say that I think the following ships that I play are OP:

 

Kamikaze (R)

T-61

 

Even I can get good winrates with these ships. I don't have them very long so it can be coincidence but I don't think so.  

T-61 was my first DD, I have never played DDs before and did it on a separated account, so without a dedicated 21p captain.

 

70%+ WR after 200 games, 187 of those were solo.