Fenyang- worst tier 8 nomination

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

I got a Fenyang in the christmass event. Good port filler, but after trying it out it genuinely doesnt seem to do anything well. Shitty guns, less nimble than most BBs, not stealthy, no good torps (lack count, cant hit cruisers or DDs, very slow reload). 
The only thing it seems to have going for it is a pretty good AA suite. 

The stats on this thing are absolutely terrible, it seems to be the worst tier 8 DD. 

 

Some suggestions to make it at least somewhat playable: 
1. Give the 100mm a 25mm pen rule like found on Japanese, removing the 100% necessity for IFHE

2. Change the Defensive AA consumable to a Main battery reload consumable, Hydroacoustic search, Repair party, or even Radar. Anything useful in combat really.

3. Let the Deepwater torps also hit cruisers. Superdeepwater torps are Asashios thing, and it kind of works on Asashio. Asashio is stealthy, fast, has arguably better guns, better manoevrability, a much more useful torpedo armament with faster relaod, as well as a more convenient commander setup (no IFHE required). It makes no sense that Fenyang has both its guns and its torps so seriously hindered. 

 

Any of the three above would help, but to turn Fenyang into a proper premium somewhere in the midrange of tier 8 DD performace I'd expect all three would need to be picked up. 

[KillStealBoss]

I wouldn't call it the worst though. It's hard/challenging to play and situational. 

 

But it's nowhere near as bad as Tiger '59. Oh this pile of garbage is really useless when it has to deal with something in a fast pace. 

 

I would put the Fenyang in the same category as Z-35, Cheshire and Hampshire. They are playable, they can do sometimes decent damage without extensive effort like Tiger '59. But they are having some limitations which make them harder to play than other premiums. 

[Animalul2012]

I would say fen yang is in a worst spot than tiger 59, manly because it is a destroyer and has a tighter competition than tiger has against other t8 cruisers or is not as important as a typical dd.

Fen yang is..... you have to tryhard with it at max. Ship needs 5.9 detection and 1700 HE shell damage (shikishima/usually 100mm japanese secondaries get 1700 HE shell damage why not fen yang too, since it does not get the improved penetration??) and maybe a 100 points more alpha to the AP shell to. Is not a hard ship to fix. Oh if they dont want the torpedoes to hit cruisers then make them reload at least faster, like 90 seconds reload pls!! 

 

[ZygZag]

Play it, learn it or skip it.  You got it 4free

[Ronchabale]

 

 

7 hours ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

I got a Fenyang in the christmass event. Good port filler, but after trying it out it genuinely doesnt seem to do anything well.

 

It is an excellent vaccine against ever getting it again  

[hellhound666]

3 hours ago, ZygZag said:

You got it 4free

this is not an excuse to distribute shite ...

[WingedHussar_Adler]

When they create top premium ships than it is pay2win, when then create average premium ships than they suck.....oh this forum 🤣😅

[hellhound666]

2 minutes ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

When they create top premium ships than it is pay2win, when then create average premium ships than they suck.....oh this forum 🤣😅

yes, these 2 are the only options - shite or p2w

[invicta2012]

1 hour ago, hellhound666 said:

yes, these 2 are the only options - shite or p2w

Fen Yang's fine.

 

I play it Ops a lot, where the DWTs do a chunky amount of damage and  the high number of PA smokes on a short cooldown are very useful. I do have IFHE on the captain (I think you don't have a real choice on that but it's not a heavy nerf - fire chance is 4% after IFHE,  only 1% worse with IFHE than a standard Lo Yang or Hsein Yang). Not to everyone's taste, especially for Randoms, but there's worse in the PA line - Siliwangi is a ship I only use to knock off snowflakes and I don't like it at all, even less than the Tech Tree ships, esp, since Hsein Yang was buffed.

 

PS - I also *love* the Lunar New Year Camo. I don't go much for non-realistic camos, but I think this is one of the WoWs art team's finest hours.

 

[Thalandor_gaming]

back in the days when the API worked and it was possible to see the winrate of all ships, Fenyang was consistently not just the worst DD but also the worst ship overall on T8.

I've never played it though so I have no opinion as to why that might be.

[Eikkuu]

Il y a 9 heures, Isoruku_Yamamoto a dit :

I got a Fenyang in the christmass event. Good port filler, but after trying it out it genuinely doesnt seem to do anything well. Shitty guns, less nimble than most BBs, not stealthy, no good torps (lack count, cant hit cruisers or DDs, very slow reload). 
The only thing it seems to have going for it is a pretty good AA suite. 

The stats on this thing are absolutely terrible, it seems to be the worst tier 8 DD. 

 

Some suggestions to make it at least somewhat playable: 
1. Give the 100mm a 25mm pen rule like found on Japanese, removing the 100% necessity for IFHE

2. Change the Defensive AA consumable to a Main battery reload consumable, Hydroacoustic search, Repair party, or even Radar. Anything useful in combat really.

3. Let the Deepwater torps also hit cruisers. Superdeepwater torps are Asashios thing, and it kind of works on Asashio. Asashio is stealthy, fast, has arguably better guns, better manoevrability, a much more useful torpedo armament with faster relaod, as well as a more convenient commander setup (no IFHE required). It makes no sense that Fenyang has both its guns and its torps so seriously hindered. 

 

Any of the three above would help, but to turn Fenyang into a proper premium somewhere in the midrange of tier 8 DD performace I'd expect all three would need to be picked up. 

That weird to say but she have better AP then her HE shells. Fenyang have DM's AP angles improve as vell. 

[invicta2012]

You still can, but I'm not sure what conclusions you would draw. Cuniberti has a higher WR than Cossack, but I'm not sure many would say the Italian ship is better overall.

[ZygZag]

I always wonder what is in the "minds" of people who got prem ships - same as "the tree" ships - for free. Sorry, I do not get it...

 

This ship is AKATSUKI: DO YOU realy have no idea how to play IJN DDs at that level?

 

OMFG ... I knew playerbase went below surface, but I did not expect it has gone so deep :(
 

 

 

[Panocek]

3 minutes ago, ZygZag said:

I always wonder what is in the "minds" of people who got prem ships - same as "the tree" ships - for free. Sorry, I do not get it...

 

This ship is AKATSUKI: DO YOU realy have no idea how to play IJN DDs at that level?

 

OMFG ... I knew playerbase went below surface, but I did not expect it has gone so deep :(
 

 

 

Except in this case, Akizuki and Fen Yang have little in common besides of being same class.

 

Also not sure where you've found Akatsuki here in first place

[invicta2012]

4 minutes ago, ZygZag said:

This ship is AKATSUKI: DO YOU realy have no idea how to play IJN DDs at that level?

Er... did you mean Akizuki?

[NewHorizons_1]

Counting T8 DDs only : Maerker

Everything else @T8 : Haarlem, Veneto & Kansas

 

Not sure about the T8 Italian DD** as it's a line I intend to skip with FreeXP.

 

** From what I've heard on the forum it's not that good.

[ZygZag]

14 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Except in this case, Akizuki and Fen Yang have little in common besides of being same class.

 

Also not sure where you've found Akatsuki here in first place

 

13 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Er... did you mean Akizuki?

Seems I was from a certain perspective.

Did that, wrote that, shame on me. Sorry guys.

 

Anyway - seems I need to get Fenyang to check it myself

[invicta2012]

GJ Maerker is a funny old ship, which I actually like playing. You can have enormous fun in Aegis with all those large cruiser citadels to hammer on, and her high fire chance and cruiser level pen makes her good at harrrassing BBs. She's as fun as Aigle, in that respect. But not a classical DD at all - too big, too easy to detect, no hydro or other useful tools, and with some heavy competition at Tier VIII I can see why people aren't keen. 

[Shepke]

47 minutes ago, ZygZag said:

I always wonder what is in the "minds" of people who got prem ships - same as "the tree" ships - for free. Sorry, I do not get it...

 

This ship is AKATSUKI: DO YOU realy have no idea how to play IJN DDs at that level?

 

OMFG ... I knew playerbase went below surface, but I did not expect it has gone so deep :(

I always wonder what is in mind of balancing dev department who made prem ships strictly worse than tech tree ships (clones or just same tier, doesn`t matter)

This ship is AKIZUKI . And the donor is MUCH MUCH BETTER.. Moreover, they didn`t get enough from one pile of sh.. so they double it with "Ship Smasha"

Akizuki has MUCH better DPM (both HE and AP), built-in high HE penetration (so you can save 3 cap`s points, but if you take it, you will get tremendous 37 mm penetration and you can damage almost everything except soviets, some US and Italy BB). With Fenyang mandatory 3 point IFHE, you will only penetrate DDs, and deckhouses.. 
Also Akizuki has MUCH better torps - because it hits everything, and pretty good. For Fenyang - if there is no BB at your flank - you can just forget about torps at all.

And yes, DFAA is useless (since CV rework). Fenyang has even less HP (on same hull!)

So we got the case of premium, which is strictly worse, in all areas, than tech-tree ship. Bravo!

 

I guess i know the reason of that, because this particular prem.ship was the test task for hiring some "smiley face" to balancing department (he also defended this ship, telling that everything is fine with her (even before buffing her) . So we`ve got what we`ve got.    

[invicta2012]

1 hour ago, Shepke said:

I always wonder what is in mind of balancing dev department who made prem ships strictly worse than tech tree ships (clones or just same tier, doesn`t matter)

It's a different spin on the ship class. It's not as if all these stats and limitations of Fen Yang aren't published before hand. Don't buy it if you don't fancy it. 

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

2 hours ago, Shepke said:

I always wonder what is in mind of balancing dev department who made prem ships strictly worse than tech tree ships (clones or just same tier, doesn`t matter)

This ship is AKIZUKI . And the donor is MUCH MUCH BETTER.. Moreover, they didn`t get enough from one pile of sh.. so they double it with "Ship Smasha"

Akizuki has MUCH better DPM (both HE and AP), built-in high HE penetration (so you can save 3 cap`s points, but if you take it, you will get tremendous 37 mm penetration and you can damage almost everything except soviets, some US and Italy BB). With Fenyang mandatory 3 point IFHE, you will only penetrate DDs, and deckhouses.. 
Also Akizuki has MUCH better torps - because it hits everything, and pretty good. For Fenyang - if there is no BB at your flank - you can just forget about torps at all.

And yes, DFAA is useless (since CV rework). Fenyang has even less HP (on same hull!)

So we got the case of premium, which is strictly worse, in all areas, than tech-tree ship. Bravo!

 

I guess i know the reason of that, because this particular prem.ship was the test task for hiring some "smiley face" to balancing department (he also defended this ship, telling that everything is fine with her (even before buffing her) . So we`ve got what we`ve got.    

 

26 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

It's a different spin on the ship class. It's not as if all these stats and limitations of Fen Yang aren't published before hand. Don't buy it if you don't fancy it. 

Fenyang clearly isnt a sidegrade to a premium or tech tree. The closest example of a sidegrade would probably be Akatsuki/Yugumo to Asashio. You lose some functionality on torpedos but in return the torpedos that you do get are amazing. 

 

In this case, as mentioned, Fenyang performs worse than Akizuki in nearly every way.

In Fenyangs case, the superdeepwater aspect on the torpedos adds little to what Akizuki already had in damage, speed or range. In addition, the guns are slaughtered- so the whole basis of an akizuki is gone.

 

2 hours ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

Counting T8 DDs only : Maerker

Everything else @T8 : Haarlem, Veneto & Kansas

 

Not sure about the T8 Italian DD** as it's a line I intend to skip with FreeXP.

 

** From what I've heard on the forum it's not that good.

Imo Haarlem is a decent grind. Not the most fun, but 100% playable.

Kansas is straight up good in my book, i dont know about Veneto. 

Personally, id rank Maerker in the top 25% of best tier 8s. Very strong ship. So experiences differ aswell.

 

But in the case of Fenyang, i believe it is not just bad statwise (that in itself is not a huge deal), it is also simply not fun to play

[NewHorizons_1]

8 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Imo Haarlem is a decent grind. Not the most fun, but 100% playable.

Kansas is straight up good in my book, i dont know about Veneto. 

Personally, id rank Maerker in the top 25% of best tier 8s. Very strong ship. So experiences differ aswell.

Experiences also probably vary between modes, ie PvP (you) & PvE (me), but for me as a co-op main all these ships were not fun in the slightest.

Mainly due to slow reload and, except for Maerker, mediocre to bad accuracy.

 

 

[invicta2012]

7 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Fenyang clearly isnt a sidegrade to a premium or tech tree. The closest example of a sidegrade would probably be Akatsuki/Yugumo to Asashio. You lose some functionality on torpedos but in return the torpedos that you do get are amazing. 

 

In this case, as mentioned, Fenyang performs worse than Akizuki in nearly every way.

In Fenyangs case, the superdeepwater aspect on the torpedos adds little to what Akizuki already had in damage, speed or range. In addition, the guns are slaughtered- so the whole basis of an akizuki is gone.

All fair points for Random/Ranked games. But I wasn't trying to suggest that Fen Yang is better - or even equal to - Akizuki or Asashio. Just that there are modes/places where FY can be a handy ship. I play Akizuki, Asashio and FY in Ops and I think FY has more utility, especially with all those PA smoke screens - you can use those to assist teammates/cover the ships you're escorting, which can be a lifesaver in a fast moving environment, especially when you consider how short the cooldown is, and that you've always got one or two left for yourself. So if the OP is disappointed with the ship in Randoms, I would suggest giving it a spin in Ops, where I think it has a definite role and where I enjoy it. Better than just being a port queen! 

 

 

[Shepke]

2 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

All fair points for Random/Ranked games. But I wasn't trying to suggest that Fen Yang is better - or even equal to - Akizuki or Asashio. Just that there are modes/places where FY can be a handy ship. I play Akizuki, Asashio and FY in Ops and I think FY has more utility, especially with all those PA smoke screens - you can use those to assist teammates/cover the ships you're escorting, which can be a lifesaver in a fast moving environment, especially when you consider how short the cooldown is, and that you've always got one or two left for yourself. So if the OP is disappointed with the ship in Randoms, I would suggest giving it a spin in Ops, where I think it has a definite role and where I enjoy it. Better than just being a port queen! 

 

 

For Ops you have to gather good division (of course if you want to win), and it takes time and more efforts. This might be not suitable for everyone.

As for Coop - FY is complete disaster, because you always get bots bow-in to you at your flank and cant even launch torps to approaching DDs and CL/CAs.. Also you can use 1 (max 2) smoke in short coop battle, so "better" FY smokes become non relevant.

So, some premiums (including FY) become even much worse in coop than in others modes.

 

 

[Schelfie]

I'm more inclined to say that the Collingwood is a hell lot worse.

 

Like in this example: the deadly combination of a slow ship with slow moving turrets and again a stupid map with far to many useless  islands and bots that abandon their position to go the other side of the map.

 

Oh the joys I had in this match...