Subs are just frustrating

[DangerMouseWales]

I think they need to do something about this, the sub relies upon its ping if you are to be effective under water and well its just broken, battle ships with plane depth chargers can zoom the camera right out and see the ping visible on the surface which should not happen. I have to admit the DD aspects are bang on the money they should be a real threat but BS that far out 1 shot killing you with a plane depth charge isnt.

 

Its also not balanced because the U69 cant kill a BS, they can outrun the torps (and they do no where near enough damage) even if you do get a lock, and dont get me started on the Tier 8 sub being far worse on the important stats after realising this wasting 90K XP trying to get into it.

 

SUB game goes one of 2 ways, you get lucky and have ships without the plane depth chargers and you can get some good hits in, or you just spot because using the ping in these matches is suicide otherwise.

 

I have also mastered the double ping, but it makes no difference other than the time its locked which they can just clear anyway (and thats if you can survive the 10 depth charges from planes heading your way) I have to admit I was looking forward to playing with these but its left my extreamly frustarted and I will not be re newing my premium subscription.

 

On a side note I do agree with the modules that allow detection (which is how it should be) not by zooming out to see 40% of the map and locking on the stupid ping animation on the surface.

 

 

[ColonelPete]

• subs do not need the ping
• if you want to use the ping, be prepared to evade
• and no, DD are not a real threat, unless you mess up or it is real late in the game

But I agree, it is better to play BB, CA or DD.

[DangerMouseWales]

you do need the ping if you are attacking from depth, surely that is the whole point of a sub. if you do not ping at depth the torps just stay at depth and dont hit the ships on the surface and they fan out.

Its the ping animation that is my issue, and the fact the BS should not be able to zoom the camera out that far by using some sort of bug on the edge of the map.

 

If the BS is looking in your direction with the normal camera and spots the ping wizzing through the water then yes fair enough, but that is not what is happening

[NewHorizons_1]

1 hour ago, DangerMouseWales said:

If the BS is looking in your direction with the normal camera and spots the ping wizzing through the water then yes fair enough, but that is not what is happening

The target doesn't get to see your ping whizzing through the water any more**.

Only clue, to your location, is the (short-lived) horseshoe shaped disturbance near your sub.

So your target has to be just happening to look in that direction, at the time you ping, to see roughly where you are.

 

** That used to be the case around a year ago but that was, allegedly, too unfair on the sub.

The visible ping trace was replaced with the horseshoe.

 

 

[DangerMouseWales]

I can see the ping traces coming towards me, i have lost count of times I have been plane depth charged to hell when it was impossible the BS could see the horse shoe, what they are doing is zooming right out and seeing a massive section of the map (birds eye view) which is an unfair advantage its just not balanced. I agree with every other aspect however. The match I just played I only pinged once, and within 4 seconds I have 4 depth charger planes on my position droping 8 charges which was impossible to dodge. a BS 15KM away (i was at periscope depth) should not have seen that horseshoe and hit me with pin point accuracy with several planes.

 

This is happening to me almost every game now. Granted if spotted your gurantee to be dead, but its rare i get spotted unless its by a DD I got to close to or didnt see because of its ability to hide.

[NewHorizons_1]

1 hour ago, DangerMouseWales said:

I can see the ping traces coming towards me,

OK, let me clarify that point. Targets don't get to see your ping trace near you.

They get to see it's near them, within 8km IIRC, so it gives the direction you're at.

But as it doesn't go all the way back to you (when you're at adequate range), so someone will have to wait for you to ping again so that they can see the horseshoe.

 

1 hour ago, DangerMouseWales said:

a BS 15KM away (i was at periscope depth) should not have seen that horseshoe and hit me with pin point accuracy with several planes.

It couldn't have. Maximum ASW airstrike range, even on T10 BBs, is 11km. For other classes, and lower tiers, the airstrike range is shorter.

[DangerMouseWales]

yeah it may have been closer, I think the ping trace general direction is probably better than horseshoe it should give the defender the general direction not a pin point accurate location (without using dedicated modules for this purpose) its made it WAY to easy to kill subs, there is no defence against being bombed by planes because they know exactly where you are and you have no way to avoid them even at 60m depth.

 

The subs are no threat to BS because my torps when they do hit do so little damage it would take 5 vollies to take them down, im lucky if I get one off without detection. If thats how subs are then like I said before I have wasted a massive amount of time, and I wont be putting another £ into the game because of it. My enjoyment has been ruined, I cant really effectvely spot anymore now because a CV can launch a drone that spots everything anyway.

[NewHorizons_1]

BBs are (ironically) the best counter to subs.

• Large health pool
• Significant torpedo protection, especially higher tier Italian & US
• Longest range ASW
• Longest range at which homing torps stop tracking as they get near.

Some even have hydro : T7+ German BCs, T8+ German BBs, Duke of York, Renown '44 (probably some others too).

Though, if you've got that near (to be hyrdo'd) you've probably got other problems.

[_You_Shell_Not_Pass_]

Il y a 3 heures, NewHorizons_1 a dit :

 

• Longest range ASW

Depends on the ships. Some T10 BB has only 6km ASW....

[DangerMouseWales]

Well all being said, The fact other subs and ships can dodge a double pinged lock is also stupid. Its a shame I wasted so much time on it, I was really looking forward to it. I dont expect loads of kills but im getting none, and I am staring at a IN BATTLE symbol for 30 mins everytime I am depth charged to hell. Just my opinion of course and others might like its style but its not for me and I am not investing anymore time or money changing to something else now.

[ColonelPete]

On 1/14/2023 at 5:02 PM, DangerMouseWales said:

you do need the ping if you are attacking from depth, surely that is the whole point of a sub. if you do not ping at depth the torps just stay at depth and dont hit the ships on the surface and they fan out.

Its the ping animation that is my issue, and the fact the BS should not be able to zoom the camera out that far by using some sort of bug on the edge of the map.

 

If the BS is looking in your direction with the normal camera and spots the ping wizzing through the water then yes fair enough, but that is not what is happening

Then you should reconsider your attack approach.

This game does not work in a way that players repeat the same action and again and if it does not work, WG will change it. It is expected that players adapt their approach and find out what works and what not.

23 hours ago, DangerMouseWales said:

I can see the ping traces coming towards me, i have lost count of times I have been plane depth charged to hell when it was impossible the BS could see the horse shoe, what they are doing is zooming right out and seeing a massive section of the map (birds eye view) which is an unfair advantage its just not balanced. I agree with every other aspect however. The match I just played I only pinged once, and within 4 seconds I have 4 depth charger planes on my position droping 8 charges which was impossible to dodge. a BS 15KM away (i was at periscope depth) should not have seen that horseshoe and hit me with pin point accuracy with several planes.

 

This is happening to me almost every game now. Granted if spotted your gurantee to be dead, but its rare i get spotted unless its by a DD I got to close to or didnt see because of its ability to hide.

No BB has 15km range with their depth charge planes...

21 hours ago, DangerMouseWales said:

yeah it may have been closer, I think the ping trace general direction is probably better than horseshoe it should give the defender the general direction not a pin point accurate location (without using dedicated modules for this purpose) its made it WAY to easy to kill subs, there is no defence against being bombed by planes because they know exactly where you are and you have no way to avoid them even at 60m depth.

 

The subs are no threat to BS because my torps when they do hit do so little damage it would take 5 vollies to take them down, im lucky if I get one off without detection. If thats how subs are then like I said before I have wasted a massive amount of time, and I wont be putting another £ into the game because of it. My enjoyment has been ruined, I cant really effectvely spot anymore now because a CV can launch a drone that spots everything anyway.

If you do not stay in place, the marker is not accurate. I suggest you move your sub or chose better times for a ping.

16 hours ago, DangerMouseWales said:

Well all being said, The fact other subs and ships can dodge a double pinged lock is also stupid. Its a shame I wasted so much time on it, I was really looking forward to it. I dont expect loads of kills but im getting none, and I am staring at a IN BATTLE symbol for 30 mins everytime I am depth charged to hell. Just my opinion of course and others might like its style but its not for me and I am not investing anymore time or money changing to something else now.

Evasion does only work in specific instances.

And if you watch the "In battle" symbol for 30 minutes, you are doing something wrong as battles last a maximum of 20 minutes.

[DangerMouseWales]

OK 15 mins then, it feels like 30 haha I am always moving I never stay static, but the chargers hit me everytime from planes the sub is very slow and it cant avoid them.

[SmegTheNoob]

On 1/14/2023 at 3:46 PM, DangerMouseWales said:

I think they need to do something about this, the sub relies upon its ping if you are to be effective under water and well its just broken, battle ships with plane depth chargers can zoom the camera right out and see the ping visible on the surface which should not happen. I have to admit the DD aspects are bang on the money they should be a real threat but BS that far out 1 shot killing you with a plane depth charge isnt.

 

Its also not balanced because the U69 cant kill a BS, they can outrun the torps (and they do no where near enough damage) even if you do get a lock, and dont get me started on the Tier 8 sub being far worse on the important stats after realising this wasting 90K XP trying to get into it.

 

SUB game goes one of 2 ways, you get lucky and have ships without the plane depth chargers and you can get some good hits in, or you just spot because using the ping in these matches is suicide otherwise.

 

I have also mastered the double ping, but it makes no difference other than the time its locked which they can just clear anyway (and thats if you can survive the 10 depth charges from planes heading your way) I have to admit I was looking forward to playing with these but its left my extreamly frustarted and I will not be re newing my premium subscription.

 

On a side note I do agree with the modules that allow detection (which is how it should be) not by zooming out to see 40% of the map and locking on the stupid ping animation on the surface.

 

 

Sorry but you are wrong buddy.

A quick look at your stats shows that you are new player. Or a new player with this account.

The only battleships you have played are the tier 3 and 4 British ones.

 

Try playing some games against Submarines with any American Battleship up to tier 8 or 9.

You will find that those US Battleships only go at a top speed of about 22 knots.

Plus lots of Battleships have an ASW Air Strike Depth charge range of between 5km and 8km, with lots of them having a range of 6km.

Now try playing those Battleships against 1 or 2 Submarines in a few games.

 

You will find a Submarine can ping and torp you from outside the range of your air strikes.

Plus because your speed is so slow, it is very hard to avoid any torps that are fired from a Submarine.

 

Also try playing games in a DD or Cruiser with ship dropped depth charges.

Try to drop them on top of a Submarine.

 

Do these things, and I am sure your attitude towards Submarines will change.

[DangerMouseWales]

1 hour ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Sorry but you are wrong buddy.

A quick look at your stats shows that you are new player. Or a new player with this account.

The only battleships you have played are the tier 3 and 4 British ones.

 

Try playing some games against Submarines with any American Battleship up to tier 8 or 9.

You will find that those US Battleships only go at a top speed of about 22 knots.

Plus lots of Battleships have an ASW Air Strike Depth charge range of between 5km and 8km, with lots of them having a range of 6km.

Now try playing those Battleships against 1 or 2 Submarines in a few games.

 

You will find a Submarine can ping and torp you from outside the range of your air strikes.

Plus because your speed is so slow, it is very hard to avoid any torps that are fired from a Submarine.

 

Also try playing games in a DD or Cruiser with ship dropped depth charges.

Try to drop them on top of a Submarine.

 

Do these things, and I am sure your attitude towards Submarines will change.

I think the best thing here is to record videos and actually show you it happening my torps have an extreamly poor hit rate even with double pings, and I will show you getting smashed by plane depth chargers more than 8KM away so no I am not wrong. And yes I have not played BS because I switched to subs because it was an interest of mine.

 

Being as you took the time to look at my stats (and thank you) you will see me torps have a hit rate of 16%

[NewHorizons_1]

18 minutes ago, DangerMouseWales said:

I think the best thing here is to record videos

You don't need to.

The game already records replay files that other players can view in the game.

Navigate to where the game is installed and check out the replays/ sub-directory.

The game typically keeps the last couple of dozen or so replay files.

Those can then be attached to a forum post just like a screen shot image.

[DangerMouseWales]

Perfect I will take a look thank you at the very least perhaps where I am going wrong can be pointed out

[ColonelPete]

19 minutes ago, DangerMouseWales said:

Being as you took the time to look at my stats (and thank you) you will see me torps have a hit rate of 16%

Which is WAY higher than the torp hit rating of DD...

[DangerMouseWales]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Which is WAY higher than the torp hit rating of DD...

thats because DD tend to throw torps around in the hope of hitting something by chance, I could sit around and just launch torps every 45 secs in the hope of hitting something and my % would be much lower and a DD throws out twice as many torps in 1 go and has a faster reload time

[SmegTheNoob]

1 hour ago, DangerMouseWales said:

I think the best thing here is to record videos and actually show you it happening my torps have an extreamly poor hit rate even with double pings, and I will show you getting smashed by plane depth chargers more than 8KM away so no I am not wrong. And yes I have not played BS because I switched to subs because it was an interest of mine.

 

Being as you took the time to look at my stats (and thank you) you will see me torps have a hit rate of 16%

Well, 16% hit rate with torps is over double what my hit rate is.

Mine is only 7.62%. But that is normal torps, because I refuse to play these pathetic Submarines.

 

You just need to learn to play the game better.

Practise in Coop battles, and play lots of different ships to learn the various play styles.

Also try out some mods that can help the experience.

I recommend Aslains mod pack https://aslain.com/.

You can pick and choose which mods you want, and the installer remembers what you picked when you run an updated mod pack installer.

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, DangerMouseWales said:

thats because DD tend to throw torps around in the hope of hitting something by chance, I could sit around and just launch torps every 45 secs in the hope of hitting something and my % would be much lower and a DD throws out twice as many torps in 1 go and has a faster reload time

DD throw torps with the same intention as subs, to hit enemy ships.

And even DD with a short stealth torping range get barely above 10%.

[johncl]

Subs are just not ready for the game , They needed much more thinking 

[tsounts]

Even submarines have a hard time countering enemy submarines not to mention that they tend to be rather fast for destroyers to catch up with, during a pursuit, and they can also shotgun dds!

[admiraldelorin]

As always the ship is as good as its captain.
Statistically speaking you have a ca. 50% chance to have been on the other team.
All the BS calling is about getting beaten by a skipper or group of skippers that out smarted you or your team's skippers. Even be it by choosing the better ship.
Instead of complaining about submarines is it not time you find out why you or the team(s) you play in, never seem to be able to handle playing against submarines?
Else you are just complaining on the level "I not like"

Oh BTW don"t start on devs not listening.. every ship not carying depth charges got to call in the airforce, because players could not organize their team work so needed ASW themselves.  (that"s a bit unrealistic but sumariners will deal with it) Then CV"s got fully automated ASW capabillities and tomorrow the Netherlands will get ASW depth charges on every ship, as they need their airfoce for bombing runs .. (.... nah those depth charges still need to be brought near a sub without.the manouvrabillity to dodge torpdeos.. . so gimmick more than anything else )  ..  so.. no more relying on teammates for ASW .. 

Thus now as requested, all surface combatants have ASW  

Naturaly submarines need to be able (sometimes, when in good hands) to survive all of that .. so guess what? Submarines wil not be easy to get at all now (when in good hands)......  so more complaining?

For the inocent bystander: Please read passed the vitro in these submarine threads.  All evidence still points to changes in game mechanics evreytime the need as statisticaly determined arises.
You also may wish devs would listen less to player complaining...  that said skill in choosing (grinding, researching, buying) the right ship and skill to handle that ship and knowing the opposition is still king.  

( To the submariners out there, the more you loose by the same statistics the higher the chance the submarine capabailities will be improved.The reverse goes for surface combattants ofcourse. :)   )

[admiraldelorin]

On 1/16/2023 at 2:07 PM, ColonelPete said:

Which is WAY higher than the torp hit rating of DD...

DD"s  with up to  4 times the tropedo tubes.. even when reload is twice that of a sub.

You better start relying on WG to applying any change to ships to ensure shipp reach theid desired  balance in overal statistics, even if that balance is not what you deisre.Then pick what ship suits you best.

PS: your slow american BB"s have some of the best topredo protection, you might want to try and turn into a submarine, close the distance because as you can see submariners are a bit stressed about being in range of any ASW. Maybe try and convince teammates you need help.. your reaction to this post is not going to help you.

[ColonelPete]

7 minutes ago, admiraldelorin said:

DD"s  with up to  4 times the tropedo tubes.. even when reload is twice that of a sub.

Does not matter for a relativ hit rating.