Please change Dockyard Missions and Holiday Reward system

[WingedHussar_Adler]

17 hours ago, Commander_Rockstone said:

Yeah, I know. E.g. a cruiser needing millions of potential damage. Smart or not, that player is going to shoot at everything in sight... hoping for return fire.
And if je sinks, no loss to him. He will simply start a new cruiser game... mission going great.
Meanwhile, the team has a useless cruiser player and loses out.

i found best thing for potential dmg is to avoid torpedos....they have high dmg and i think counts toward potential dmg......

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

17 hours ago, Skitzo_Sam said:

I feel like im playing either with or against BOTs every game its getting stupid. People only care about what ever mission they are on for dockyard or getting the Holiday rewards on each ship and it needs to change.

 

17 hours ago, Commander_Rockstone said:

Yeah, I know. E.g. a cruiser needing millions of potential damage. Smart or not, that player is going to shoot at everything in sight... hoping for return fire.
And if je sinks, no loss to him. He will simply start a new cruiser game... mission going great.
Meanwhile, the team has a useless cruiser player and loses out.

Im not really sure if this is an issue with the current missions or if this is just the constant decline of the playerbase skill. Every time I try and get a mission done, I will choose the best ship to do so. Fire missions? Maybe Conqueror, Thunderer, Zao, Cossack. Will I try and suck in these ships while playing? Of course not! I will try and play my best just as I do when im not trying to do missions because playing my best usually results in my finishing said mission faster. Same as getting kills, earning X amount of credits/base XP etc etc etc.

 

Potential damage missions? Conqueror is good there as well. Does it mean I won't shoot all game? No, I will shoot as much as possible and also trying to boost other missions at the same time, like fire missions, kills, credits etc etc.

 

Why would I try and be useless? And as far as I know there is no missions for dying early, getting low amount of credits or base XP.

 

So, I just think its the regular random player you encounter and those are pretty horrible, missions or no missions. Also, holiday rewards are usually completed 100 % faster in Co-Op.

[Dutchy_2019]

44 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

The 46 battles is not really true since the mission does not state "in victorious battles"  so the number doesn't increase or decrease based on your winrate.
A win doesnt always mean high damage, and a loss doesnt always mean low damage.

 

Some events are tailored more to the "hardcore" audience of the game. It's entirely possible to finish the dockyard if you play a lot, or are a very good player. However those who might have less time on their hands might not be able to finish the dockyard through missions exclusively.

 

 

My 46 games example was a response to Zuihou's suggestion of adding the 'victorious battles' to the completion condition for (every) dockyard mission(s) as a deterrent to 'I only want to spam games for damage and f*** my team mates' - players will not be rewarded for handicapping their team by playing in such an egoistic manner.

 

And I am well aware that some events are targeted at the more 'hardcore' audience of the game - and personally I am fine with the Dockyard requirements as is.  

[chazwozza]

1 hour ago, Seraphice said:

In general we've already made sure to limit the impact of missions a bit more in that sense.
Most missions now are either to earn Base XP, credits, other forms of XP or deal damage, or win battles.

Of course other missions such as ribbons, potential damage, spotting damage etc. are still there but less frequently.
 

This unfortunately is not as easy as it seems as it would make all missions significantly more challenging.
Considering we already see quite some feedback about the win condition for daily missions, it's not very likely that we'll push in that direction.

 

The 46 battles is not really true since the mission does not state "in victorious battles"  so the number doesn't increase or decrease based on your winrate.
A win doesnt always mean high damage, and a loss doesnt always mean low damage.

 

Some events are tailored more to the "hardcore" audience of the game. It's entirely possible to finish the dockyard if you play a lot, or are a very good player. However those who might have less time on their hands might not be able to finish the dockyard through missions exclusively.

 

I'll chase this. Thanks

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

 

Sorry mate that answer dont really cut the mustard some missions may be more suited to coop but basicly in randoms  it doesn't matter the mission or ship type. Just rush the nearest circle have a fight rinse repeat win/lose who cares in 20 mins you could have played 5/6 games easy some of them will be wins the xp and cash will still be better than a bum rush coop game. Makes no sense playing 1 game for a possible 20 mins when said quicker games yield more

[Siagor]

17 hours ago, Dutchy_2019 said:

Sure, should people strive to improve? Yes. But the vast majority of people do not have the time, energy, or even mental capacity to get to where you expect them to be.

 

Exactly this.

 

If we excuse the "mental capacity" (bear in mind, half of the world population is below an average IQ ), this is a game. Just a f**** simple game, made for entertainment at home. For many of us, after work or between the house/parenting chores. If someone takes it as the most important thing in their life and analyze and practice and strive and spend ungodly amount of time playing, good for them - honestly - but don't expect all to have the same approach.

 

To all the unicums who rage at player base,:

- you are unicums exactly because most of the players take this casually, don't play as skillfully as you and can be easily killed.

- if all the players play as well as you, you'd be ~49-51% and not special at all. Be thankful.

- if you're so great, go carry your team - but man up, don't whine on it.

[Redcap375]

18 hours ago, Dutchy_2019 said:

 

That is just facetious, and you know it. You are arguing from the position of a very experienced superunicum (and solo unicum player). Which means you are among the best 10% of the player base. Which means that compared to 90% of the playerbase you have far greater chance to push your team to a positive outcome (a win) than they ever will.

 

Now use this as an example:

 

You are a 50% WR player (which is still being well inside the best 50% of players on the server).

Every battle you play, you manage to do the server average of damage with your ship.

You have to limit yourself to a Tech Tree ship.

 

BB mission for Dockyard for this week: 2.300.000 HP Damage

Best TT BB average damage: St Vincent, with 103.615 HP Damage per game

 

In that scenario it would take you 23 wins to complete the mission, or - at a 50% WR - 46 games played. Taken an average of about 13 minutes per game, that means completing that mission alone will take you 10 hours of continuous play.

For cruisers, it would come down to 44 games, so roughly the same amount of time again.

 

In other words, for an actually ABOVE server average player, your way of doing things would cost him or her about 20 hours of continuous playing time.

 

Most people do not have the time or energy available to put in that kind of investment.

 

Sure, should people strive to improve? Yes. But the vast majority of people do not have the time, energy, or even mental capacity to get to where you expect them to be.

 

This. 

 

All designed by WG to strip bonuses, take money and inflate the game numbers. 

 

I don't have the time or inclination to go out my way to complete any of the dockyard missions. If I need certain missions completed which I am close to achieving then I pop onto coop and turn the brain off.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

2 hours ago, Seraphice said:

19 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

WG however could add a simple solution. Make every mission progress a win condition. No win? No mission progress.

This unfortunately is not as easy as it seems as it would make all missions significantly more challenging.
Considering we already see quite some feedback about the win condition for daily missions, it's not very likely that we'll push in that direction

Yes, as the bad player base is very big and probably more of a customer than those few who care about suiciding teammates playing even worse to finish their missions.

So... how about an incentive to win? Say, multiply the mission objective i.e., citadel hits, fires set, bears asses collected or whatever by, say, exp/1000. So even if you lose, if you played half decently, you get 1,2 to 1,5 multiplier, if you just afk or suicide your way through, you get 0,5 times the reward. (Yes, I know, some very necessary things to win the game don't give nearly enough exp and farming from range does...but let's assume WG fixes that)

And to prevent suiciding or intentional bad play, remove the missions which will propagate that.

Also, how about two or threefold missions, say, for a DD, spot x enemies, get y cap participation and deal z damage. Or for a BB, tank A damage, deal B damage and move C kilometers. Make stuff that happens during normal play into a mission and make it archievable for the potatos, too.

 

Good players don't notice the missions anyway until they are finished, at most I look if the bars are advancing and if I have to switch ship type to progress (I hate that... you should get rid of that, too).

 

Basically, make the missions nothing overwhelming even the trash players. Because you know what happens if you force them.

 

Even forcing players to play ships they suck with is questionable (snowflakes, anyone?), on the other hand, playing a line you haven't played in a while can renew your interest. But do I really have to play all ships from T5 to T10 for that?

 

 

[Schelfie]

2 hours ago, Siagor said:

 

Exactly this.

 

If we excuse the "mental capacity" (bear in mind, half of the world population is below an average IQ ), this is a game. Just a f**** simple game, made for entertainment at home. For many of us, after work or between the house/parenting chores. If someone takes it as the most important thing in their life and analyze and practice and strive and spend ungodly amount of time playing, good for them - honestly - but don't expect all to have the same approach.

 

To all the unicums who rage at player base,:

- you are unicums exactly because most of the players take this casually, don't play as skillfully as you and can be easily killed.

- if all the players play as well as you, you'd be ~49-51% and not special at all. Be thankful.

- if you're so great, go carry your team - but man up, don't whine on it.

As a married man with 2 kids and a job: this is the reason that I only play Co-Op.

 

I don't have the time, nor energy, nor interest to be "the best player who beats the crap out of fellow humans in a shootergame with ships". I just want to casually blow some stuff up without much thinking, ambition or stress.

[Skitzo_Sam]

4 hours ago, Seraphice said:

In general we've already made sure to limit the impact of missions a bit more in that sense.
Most missions now are either to earn Base XP, credits, other forms of XP or deal damage, or win battles.

 

Im sorry but your wrong.

 

Take the Holiday Rewards for example. I have 194 ships so i qualify for the +1 reward as long as i get 300 xp in a match win or lose. Out of those 194 ships i think 54 of them are T10 and 5 T11. The rewards for the T10s are what everyone wants but people are impatient they will literally take the ship into a battle do bit of damage and then die because lets face it to get less than 300 xp you were probably afk the whole match. They dont care about the win they just want the containers/gift certs. You get a couple of people on your side that dont really care about the win only doing enough to get enough xp for the containers and it makes everyone elses life miserable. It was much better when you needed a WIN and the XP to qualify for the containers because then people actually made an effort. But the problem is that you try to make the containers accessible for everyone even the really bad players when they can just go into co-op and get the containers there.

 

Now onto the Dockyard missions. Damage missions are useless. BBs will sit at the back of the map and just shoot bbs and broadside cruisers. An idiot can do that all day long and not win a single match and still get 100k+ damage a match. I know cos i can and have done it myself. Hello Yamato/Thundy/Columbo/Republique to name a few. You dont affect the game by damage farming. DDs if you have a French or the Italian DDs you can just YOLO a BB and die rinse and repeat easy and again you havent really contributed and can do this all day long and still no win all while letting your team down. 

 

You need to start encouraging team play rather than solo and winning rather than taking part.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

51 minutes ago, Schelfie said:

As a married man with 2 kids and a job: this is the reason that I only play Co-Op.

 

I don't have the time, nor energy, nor interest to be "the best player who beats the crap out of fellow humans in a shootergame with ships". I just want to casually blow some stuff up without much thinking, ambition or stress.

Im in the exact same situation but for me gaming is something different. It IS a way to "escape" the real world and real problems for a while and to get some relaxation and enjoyment, maybe even a sense of achievement which is not necessarily so easy to get grinding at work. So even tho I use games to relax I still want to feel I get something out of it and make a difference, otherwise I could just binge some series on Netflix.

[Schelfie]

2 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Im in the exact same situation but for me gaming is something different. It IS a way to "escape" the real world and real problems for a while and to get some relaxation and enjoyment, maybe even a sense of achievement which is not necessarily so easy to get grinding at work. So even tho I use games to relax I still want to feel I get something out of it and make a difference, otherwise I could just binge some series on Netflix.

And that's why i have Co-Op and you have Random :).

 

But next week i'm just  because i need to achieve 75.000 base XP in 14 days in Co-Op! My only hope is that their won't be too much yolo morons with DD's that i only can dream of to achieve (since it will take at least half a year of constantly grinding to achieve a Kleber or T10 English or American BB) in Co-Op so can have a chance of slowly achieving it.

[Seraphice]

3 hours ago, chazwozza said:

Sorry mate that answer dont really cut the mustard some missions may be more suited to coop but basicly in randoms  it doesn't matter the mission or ship type. Just rush the nearest circle have a fight rinse repeat win/lose who cares in 20 mins you could have played 5/6 games easy some of them will be wins the xp and cash will still be better than a bum rush coop game. Makes no sense playing 1 game for a possible 20 mins when said quicker games yield more

Randoms is the main gamemode of world of warships and thus most missions are made with random battles in mind. While we try to usually incorporate PvE players, we cannot always say that the missions will be equally easy or hard in various modes - that is simply not feasible.

 

2 hours ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Basically, make the missions nothing overwhelming even the trash players. Because you know what happens if you force them.

Most things that missions promote you to do (earn base XP, deal damage, win battles) does result in encouraging you to play better.

 

2 hours ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Even forcing players to play ships they suck with is questionable (snowflakes, anyone?), on the other hand, playing a line you haven't played in a while can renew your interest. But do I really have to play all ships from T5 to T10 for that? 

Which is why we introduced the ability to knock off multiple snowflakes at once.

 

33 minutes ago, Skitzo_Sam said:

Take the Holiday Rewards for example. I have 194 ships so i qualify for the +1 reward as long as i get 300 xp in a match win or lose. Out of those 194 ships i think 54 of them are T10 and 5 T11. The rewards for the T10s are what everyone wants but people are impatient they will literally take the ship into a battle do bit of damage and then die because lets face it to get less than 300 xp you were probably afk the whole match. They dont care about the win they just want the containers/gift certs. You get a couple of people on your side that dont really care about the win only doing enough to get enough xp for the containers and it makes everyone elses life miserable. It was much better when you needed a WIN and the XP to qualify for the containers because then people actually made an effort. But the problem is that you try to make the containers accessible for everyone even the really bad players when they can just go into co-op and get the containers there.

On this end, it is not possible to keep both the win condition AND the current system that allows you to obtain multiple snowflakes in one match (which is something the community has been asking for for a while).

The games certainly were not consistently terrible when I was playing during this update, both at the start and at the end.

For the people who can't consistently perform in randoms, it is still faster for them to play co-op, and I assume that is what most players are actually doing.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Verblonde]

1 hour ago, Skitzo_Sam said:

You need to start encouraging team play rather than solo and winning rather than taking part.

I fear you may be being rather optimistic with this wish: this has been a complaint for pretty much the entire time I've been visiting the forum, and I'm not sure there is much will at WG to do anything about it.

 

I'm not even certain there is much that *can* be done; as mentioned by others, the bulk of the player base are not playing the game with the same motivations as most of the hard-core forum folk.

 

It's the perennial question of 'small game with skilled and dedicated player-base' or 'big and lucrative game with largely clueless player-base'; the latter results in far more trips to Madam Olga's, so no prizes for guessing which direction WG go in...

[ZygZag]

5 hours ago, Dongi_2018 said:

Why WG still refuses to allow operations in some of the missions is baffling. Kills etc are just as easily and faster in coop. It’s raw xp and silver that will make operations better ( then coop)but this is still offset by the dropped quality of operations players..Operations have a good intermediate position between pvp and coop as for risks vs gains..

It was (IMO) well explained in the topic ""Co-Op and Operations improvements needed" by two other players - it is about WG monetisation style:

 

23 hours ago, Europizza said:

It's not a revenue issue. There is simply very little demand in WG's perspective weirdly enough, because the majority of players are just hoarders with a very simple demand - grinds without much effort put into it. They just want to collect, not a challange. What that means is that coop for most players is only here to grinding tokens and missions. When Lesta actually tested with bots that were more of a challange there was an uproar. People hated it because it made grinding harder as far as I can remember. Go figure.

 

22 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

And to skip grinding some pay money for boosters, premiums and so on. In every single game with this monetization model it works and there are more games with those models than there are without (currently played games as in live service games). Pvp also helps with exploiting narcissistic people like me who like to compare themselves to others (every one is a bit narcissistic it just varies) and most people use the pressure of a better ship as reason to spend money on a supposedly OP premium, lootboxes ect to get their imaginary edge over other players aka they try to spend money to win easier which thankfully doesn't really work in WOWS however the traps still function as they prey on people who don't know better 

 

[Bayolo_1]

1 hour ago, Verblonde said:

I fear you may be being rather optimistic with this wish: this has been a complaint for pretty much the entire time I've been visiting the forum, and I'm not sure there is much will at WG to do anything about it.

 

I'm not even certain there is much that *can* be done; as mentioned by others, the bulk of the player base are not playing the game with the same motivations as most of the hard-core forum folk.

 

It's the perennial question of 'small game with skilled and dedicated player-base' or 'big and lucrative game with largely clueless player-base'; the latter results in far more trips to Madam Olga's, so no prizes for guessing which direction WG go in...

In my opinion it is the most accurate, all the players have their point of reason, the good ones and the average ones, but I think we are forgetting one thing. WG is not here to provide us with the fun that we would like, it is a company and as such all its decisions are Very thoughtful and planned in one direction, their results of accounts at the end of the month.

[VedranSeaWolf359]

Personally I will only like to change which objectives give you shipbuilding progress in way that objectives which you finish first 2 or 3 of it always give you progress in shipyard but you will still need to finish 6 or 8 of it for completing a stage, only on this way you can avoid things which you is hardest to you in some cases like for me (damage upon your spotting, commander XP, or potential damage or basic XP in some cases)    

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

6 hours ago, Seraphice said:

Most things that missions promote you to do (earn base XP, deal damage, win battles) does result in encouraging you to play better. 

Even the "get x torpedo hits" or "start y fires" lead to players doing stupid things. Yes, I have been on the same TS server with them, while they did. Shooting stuff, just to get one more fire, one more torp hit, never mind getting deleted - because they "hate playing that ship anyway and why should they care". I kid you not. And those were average'ish players.

"win battles" is a double edged sword, as it's not reliable (for most of us). I still like my idea of tying it to the exp gained/1000 best.

 

6 hours ago, Seraphice said:

Which is why we introduced the ability to knock off multiple snowflakes at once.

Not good enough, tbh. I've suffered through lots of ships I don't care about the least. Seriously, it's as much fun as drilling a hole in your knee and pouring milk in. I've promised myself to never do this again.

[Seraphice]

On 1/13/2023 at 10:39 PM, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Not good enough, tbh. I've suffered through lots of ships I don't care about the least. Seriously, it's as much fun as drilling a hole in your knee and pouring milk in. I've promised myself to never do this again.

The change was introduced so that the time to complete your snowflakes in randoms would take approximately the same amount of time as doing it in co-op, which was one of the main pain points of players that they did not want to spam co-op games just to finish their snowflakes. This also leads to having to play less games overall (though over the same amount of time given that co-op games are shorter).

We can't force you to claim the gifts that we give you with the holiday season and with the anniversary, but we do strive to make it easier, as we have done.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

48 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

We can't force you to claim the gifts that we give you with the holiday season and with the anniversary, but we do strive to make it easier, as we have done. 

Ok, I'll "gift" you 20€ if you saw off your leg below the knee. Im so sorry if you don't want to claim it, but I cant force you if you really don't want the 20€.

But I can make it easier - how about you just slowly saw off both your big toes? Ain't this is awfully nice of me?

 

Seriously, I'm done with that. It's not a gift, it's torture. And coop is still way faster if you at least posess the ability to mash your face on the W key more than once. And if you're lucky you can get two vouchers there, too.

"Play two games for each nation and class to get all repective snowflakes" would be a gift and a motivation to retry a disregarded line. Then you play the gems out of it, the ships you rather liked instead of... Izumo.

And if your intention is to make people really reconsider certain ships, maybe even allow the same ship to be played twice and add free captain transfers for the duration of the event - who knows, maybe Hindenburg and I suddenly become friends?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

On 1/13/2023 at 10:39 PM, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Not good enough, tbh

Yeah let them just give you everything out for free, no effort easy. Actually they could just make the game play itself in the background like afk arena.

 

I usually like your posts but you really are asking for way to much here. There is no one forcing you to grind and if you can't be bothered to play those ships but feel the urge to get all the gifts so badly then you might want to work in feeling this way as that's definitely not healthy in the long run. 

 

I myself have not purposefully grinded rewards outside if t10 but by just playing randoms a bit with all kinds of ships together with friends in different tiers I knocked off most of my rewards in t8 above. And no, I don't feel any need or urgency to torture myself for some extra coal. Why should I be angry at WG for this decision of mine?

[Figment]

On 1/13/2023 at 2:36 PM, Schelfie said:

As a married man with 2 kids and a job: this is the reason that I only play Co-Op.

 

I don't have the time, nor energy, nor interest to be "the best player who beats the crap out of fellow humans in a shootergame with ships". I just want to casually blow some stuff up without much thinking, ambition or stress.

Pretty much the same (two kids, only late night time when I'm already tired), aside from hardly ever doing coop since it's boring at no chance of losing (even if I get torped by a bot, I'll have killed one to three bots by then leaving the rest of the group to mob up with fast numerical and accuracy superiority).

 

I do want to perform up to my own standard in Randoms and will only "go fully focused" in Ranked, if I'm not tired enough to mess up anyway. I think my WR could be 5% higher if I played as when I gamed like I did during high school / uni / single dude. There's just no time and too much other things competing with it. Still blast through all the dockyard and other missions with ease. So no problems there.