Please change Dockyard Missions and Holiday Reward system

[Skitzo_Sam]

I feel like im playing either with or against BOTs every game its getting stupid. People only care about what ever mission they are on for dockyard or getting the Holiday rewards on each ship and it needs to change.

[Rockstone_III]

Yeah, I know. E.g. a cruiser needing millions of potential damage. Smart or not, that player is going to shoot at everything in sight... hoping for return fire.
And if je sinks, no loss to him. He will simply start a new cruiser game... mission going great.
Meanwhile, the team has a useless cruiser player and loses out.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just shows how selfish players are. If they played just normally they would easily automatically complete the missions. Its not WGs fault its players being selfish and having the wrong idea about what the objective of the game is.

 

WG however could add a simple solution. Make every mission progress a win condition. No win? No mission progress.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

40 minutes ago, Skitzo_Sam said:

People only care about what ever mission their on for dockyard or getting the Holiday rewards on each ship and it needs to change.

You've basically described the revenue model of this game so it won't change. It only got worse over the years and will only get worse sorry to say.

[Dutchy_2019]

24 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

Just shows how selfish players are. If they played just normally they would easily automatically complete the missions. Its not WGs fault its players being selfish and having the wrong idea about what the objective of the game is.

 

WG however could add a simple solution. Make every mission progress a win condition. No win? No mission progress.

 

Which would make the vast majority of players have to rely on the luck of the draw (their team-mates) to have any reasonable chance to complete the missions in a reasonable manner.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just now, Dutchy_2019 said:

 

Which would make the vast majority of players have to rely on the luck of the draw (their team-mates) to have any reasonable chance to complete the missions in a reasonable manner.

or maybe just get better at the game and then its not all just luck?

[NewHorizons_1]

29 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

WG however could add a simple solution. Make every mission progress a win condition. No win? No mission progress.

Randoms : Where did everyone go?

Co-op : Is where the party's at.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just now, NewHorizons_1 said:

Randoms : Where did everyone go?

Co-op : Is where the party's at.

at least then randoms would be free of all these... very good coop players.

[ZygZag]

56 minutes ago, Skitzo_Sam said:

I feel like im playing either with or against BOTs every game its getting stupid. People only care about what ever mission their on for dockyard or getting the Holiday rewards on each ship and it needs to change.

Wait for the last "Scrapyard challenge" missions set - to finish the whole run one needs to score 37.5k base exp. And it can be done in PvP or only coops (operations excluded). As all know coops do not bring much exp ... 

 

There are many PvE players who will stay with coops to get the job done, but also there will be more of those who do not care 

[Dutchy_2019]

24 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

or maybe just get better at the game and then its not all just luck?

 

That is just facetious, and you know it. You are arguing from the position of a very experienced superunicum (and solo unicum player). Which means you are among the best 10% of the player base. Which means that compared to 90% of the playerbase you have far greater chance to push your team to a positive outcome (a win) than they ever will.

 

Now use this as an example:

 

You are a 50% WR player (which is still being well inside the best 50% of players on the server).

Every battle you play, you manage to do the server average of damage with your ship.

You have to limit yourself to a Tech Tree ship.

 

BB mission for Dockyard for this week: 2.300.000 HP Damage

Best TT BB average damage: St Vincent, with 103.615 HP Damage per game

 

In that scenario it would take you 23 wins to complete the mission, or - at a 50% WR - 46 games played. Taken an average of about 13 minutes per game, that means completing that mission alone will take you 10 hours of continuous play.

For cruisers, it would come down to 44 games, so roughly the same amount of time again.

 

In other words, for an actually ABOVE server average player, your way of doing things would cost him or her about 20 hours of continuous playing time.

 

Most people do not have the time or energy available to put in that kind of investment.

 

Sure, should people strive to improve? Yes. But the vast majority of people do not have the time, energy, or even mental capacity to get to where you expect them to be.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

3 minutes ago, Dutchy_2019 said:

Sure, should people strive to improve? Yes. But the vast majority of people do not have the time, energy, or even mental capacity to get to where you expect them to be.

And this is something WG can't solve. The players don't have time or the mindset to get better? Well then they don't deserve the mission rewards. You allow anyway?then u create an environment where people can play badly and get rewarded for it and obviously people will take full advantage of this system while patting themselves on the back for completing the mission with 25%wr while screwing all their teammates for it.

 

If you ask me those people with those mindsets are true griefers

[Dutchy_2019]

Just now, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

And this is something WG can't solve. The players don't have time or the mindset to get better? Well then they don't deserve the mission rewards. You allow anyway?then u create an environment where people can play badly and get rewarded for it and obviously people will take full advantage of this system while patting themselves on the back for completing the mission with 25%wr while screwing all their teammates for it.

 

If you ask me those people with those mindsets are true griefers

 

Funny - because you are now basically punishing players for (a) coming later to the game than you and (b) having a real life to deal with. Sorry, but I find that attitude detestable. Note that if all players were super unicum level, every player would need 20 hours of continuous playing time to complete that dockyard stage.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

24 minutes ago, Dutchy_2019 said:

 

Funny - because you are now basically punishing players for (a) coming later to the game than you and (b) having a real life to deal with. Sorry, but I find that attitude detestable. Note that if all players were super unicum level, every player would need 20 hours of continuous playing time to complete that dockyard stage.

You can just make the missions easier with the win condition. I dont see the issue. 

[Dutchy_2019]

13 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

You can just make the missions easier with the win condition. I dont see the issue. 

 

If you were to do that players of your skill level would not have any challenge and (from WG's perspective) there would be no incentive for you to play (extra).

 

A massive problem for this game is the skill (and often playing time) difference between a small group (to which you by virtue of your skill level belong) and the majority of the playerbase. That majority will never ever come close to those top-level players - for many reasons that have little to do with the bad attitude of 'I do not want to improve, no matter what!' which you rightfully despise. Real life circumstances will make sure of that. This is an issue with balancing, this is IMHO also a massive issue and point of conflict concerning subs and (to a slightly lesser degree) CVs, and it is also an issue with things like Dockyards, Battle Passes and any other kind of mission.

 

For something like the dockyard you might have a partial solution in 'splitting' tasks into a 'complete either this or that' type of thing, similar to what WarThunder has for its BattlePass. But I am not sure that would actually be practical here.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

9 minutes ago, Dutchy_2019 said:

If you were to do that players of your skill level would not have any challenge and (from WG's perspective) there would be no incentive for you to play (extra).

People like me play the game for the game not for missions. I couldn't care less about missions, they just complete themselves on the side. None of my friends try to go out of their way to complete the missions and most of my friends are my skill level or above. There is no reason to not make the missions easier if you implement a win condition at the same time. It can be done and it would at least somewhat motivate the people who like missions to try to win and the selfish reward for participating collector ones can simply leave and with that make it a better game experience for everyone else who actually understands that the goal of the game is to win and not to get some stupid mission done 

[Nov_A]

I have never purposefully played for a mission, even though I mostly limit myself to a single class. It is always the same layout, a 1 class related quantity mission, a handful of less tedious quantity missions and a quality one. All are clearable during the same time window. Dont be the donkey chasing the carrot on a stick, dont be the farmer going places holding a stick.  Be the stick, he does not care, gets the carrot and is going places.

 

[J0tt]

Vor 1 Stunde, Zuihou_Kai_Ni sagte:

at least then randoms would be free of all these... very good coop players.

If random queue would still pop after the vast majority of players went to play coop to finish their missions.

[Schelfie]

1 hour ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

at least then randoms would be free of all these... very good coop players.

Keep them out of CO-Op too, 'cause they're poisoning that well too...

[NewHorizons_1]

2 hours ago, Commander_Rockstone said:

E.g. a cruiser needing millions of potential damage.

Always seemed odd that the potential damage missions weren't assigned to BBs - as they have the armour & health to deflect & absorb it.

2 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

If they played just normally they would easily automatically complete the missions

For me in co-op, and preferring cruisers, they tend to do anyway.

1 hour ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

You can just make the missions easier with the win condition.

Another alternative for the PvP crowd would be to tie missions to achievements or overall match performance (In one battle, score X baseXP or Score in the top X of your team Y times) and leave score X damage, tank Y potential etc for co-op.

That way people can easily knock off missions in co-op by doing mundane tasks, but the priories for players in randoms aren't affected that much.

[KillStealBoss]

4 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

Just shows how selfish players are. If they played just normally they would easily automatically complete the missions. Its not WGs fault its players being selfish and having the wrong idea about what the objective of the game is.

 

WG however could add a simple solution. Make every mission progress a win condition. No win? No mission progress.

Agree. You can do the mission and win at the same time. You just need to take the ships that are good to do certain mission. 

Wanna potential damage? Moskva, Stalingrad, Napoli. 

Hits? Smoleńsk, Mino, DM. 

Torp hits/ damage? Jinan, Mino, Zao. 

 

It's not all issue. But the players don't have certain ships for that. So they'll take whatever they're grinding or premiums to get credits and do such mission.

Add to that the time they play - playing maybe 15-20 battles a week. 

Which will result in a hard fail. What to do....

[Figment]

5 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

or maybe just get better at the game and then its not all just luck?

Or just go with missions that contribute to the wins and aren't too hard to do since it's a festive event, rather than missions that create liabilities.

[chazwozza]

WR can easily be rigged I know a guy from a clan I was in with a 55 ish win rate no better than me basicly had been this way at least a couple of years. He left and joined omni and within a short while his new WR was 65% had he just become massively better? Nop he was just being carried by better players so please stop banging on about Wr it really isn't a true reflection on someone's abilitys

[NewHorizons_1]

The one irritating change in the last year or so with these kinds of missions are the DD captured/defended ones.

When this mission became available, in the first 3 matches I got a standard battle and two arms race matches.

None of which allow you to earn defended ribbons and (with standard) are unlikely to earn (just the one) captured ribbon.

For these missions, could we add buff captures as well, @Seraphice ?

That way we can at least progress during an arms race match where the cap zone rarely appears in co-op due to the short match duration.

[Seraphice]

16 hours ago, Skitzo_Sam said:

I feel like im playing either with or against BOTs every game its getting stupid. People only care about what ever mission they are on for dockyard or getting the Holiday rewards on each ship and it needs to change.

In general we've already made sure to limit the impact of missions a bit more in that sense.
Most missions now are either to earn Base XP, credits, other forms of XP or deal damage, or win battles.

Of course other missions such as ribbons, potential damage, spotting damage etc. are still there but less frequently.
 

16 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

Just shows how selfish players are. If they played just normally they would easily automatically complete the missions. Its not WGs fault its players being selfish and having the wrong idea about what the objective of the game is.

 

WG however could add a simple solution. Make every mission progress a win condition. No win? No mission progress.

This unfortunately is not as easy as it seems as it would make all missions significantly more challenging.
Considering we already see quite some feedback about the win condition for daily missions, it's not very likely that we'll push in that direction.

 

15 hours ago, Dutchy_2019 said:

 

That is just facetious, and you know it. You are arguing from the position of a very experienced superunicum (and solo unicum player). Which means you are among the best 10% of the player base. Which means that compared to 90% of the playerbase you have far greater chance to push your team to a positive outcome (a win) than they ever will.

 

Now use this as an example:

 

You are a 50% WR player (which is still being well inside the best 50% of players on the server).

Every battle you play, you manage to do the server average of damage with your ship.

You have to limit yourself to a Tech Tree ship.

 

BB mission for Dockyard for this week: 2.300.000 HP Damage

Best TT BB average damage: St Vincent, with 103.615 HP Damage per game

 

In that scenario it would take you 23 wins to complete the mission, or - at a 50% WR - 46 games played. Taken an average of about 13 minutes per game, that means completing that mission alone will take you 10 hours of continuous play.

For cruisers, it would come down to 44 games, so roughly the same amount of time again.

 

In other words, for an actually ABOVE server average player, your way of doing things would cost him or her about 20 hours of continuous playing time.

 

Most people do not have the time or energy available to put in that kind of investment.

 

Sure, should people strive to improve? Yes. But the vast majority of people do not have the time, energy, or even mental capacity to get to where you expect them to be.

The 46 battles is not really true since the mission does not state "in victorious battles"  so the number doesn't increase or decrease based on your winrate.
A win doesnt always mean high damage, and a loss doesnt always mean low damage.

 

Some events are tailored more to the "hardcore" audience of the game. It's entirely possible to finish the dockyard if you play a lot, or are a very good player. However those who might have less time on their hands might not be able to finish the dockyard through missions exclusively.

 

26 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

The one irritating change in the last year or so with these kinds of missions are the DD captured/defended ones.

When this mission became available, in the first 3 matches I got a standard battle and two arms race matches.

None of which allow you to earn defended ribbons and (with standard) are unlikely to earn (just the one) captured ribbon.

For these missions, could we add buff captures as well, @Seraphice ?

 

I'll chase this. Thanks

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

 

[Dongi_2018]

16 hours ago, ZygZag said:

Wait for the last "Scrapyard challenge" missions set - to finish the whole run one needs to score 37.5k base exp. And it can be done in PvP or only coops (operations excluded). As all know coops do not bring much exp ... 

 

There are many PvE players who will stay with coops to get the job done, but also there will be more of those who do not care 

Why WG still refuses to allow operations in some of the missions is baffling. Kills etc are just as easily and faster in coop. It’s raw xp and silver that will make operations better ( then coop)but this is still offset by the dropped quality of operations players..Operations have a good intermediate position between pvp and coop as for risks vs gains..