where the fck is penetration???

[citaDELer]

only HE have pene capability in mm????

[Shirakami_Kon]

They should add AP pen at distances of 5, 10, 15 and 20 km for reference, but they won't because "that would only confuse the players".

 

Because you know, the same reasoning why submarines shotgunning you is not an issue because players are too dumb too to pull it off. We are just too dumb for such complex unnecesary info.

[22cm]

^ What he said.

Unlike He penetration which is considered constant, Ap penetration varies with distance.

[arttuperkunas]

You have to look at third party tools for that info. Someone can probably share a link?

[WingedHussar_Adler]

3 hours ago, 22cm said:

^ What he said.

Unlike He penetration which is considered constant, Ap penetration varies with distance.

This guy is trying to tell you to stop sniping from 25 km and pen will  come back 🤣😅😂

[ColonelPete]

5 hours ago, citaDELer said:

only HE have pene capability in mm????

Congratulation for noticing after 18k matches. Hope you are aware that penetration is a variable...

[159Hunter]

Rather than using foul language, learn how to use a search function on the forums.

 

 

[Onsterfelijke]

6 hours ago, citaDELer said:

only HE have pene capability in mm????

Your surprised that AP has variable PEN or that the value is in mm?

[arttuperkunas]

51 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Congratulation for noticing after 18k matches. Hope you are aware that penetration is a variable...

Bold assumption

[Figment]

5 hours ago, Shirakami_Kon said:

They should add AP pen at distances of 5, 10, 15 and 20 km for reference, but they won't because "that would only confuse the players".

Would be nice to get a min-max pen value really. At least it'd give some indication. 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

https://shiptool.st/selected?s=BC610&c=top&p=ap&rm=8

 

Play around with the range and you see what happens. Also with that kind of question, you might want to read about overmatch, because some people expect armor penetration to help here, too - but it doesn't, it's only caliber.

 

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds

 

Also please note the ricochet angles, that is also a major part of what makes AP work (or not)

 

Edit: Kudos that you noticed the error in your ways and try to improve yourself now. Just rolling your face on the keyboard in a tryhard division with a seal club may work at tier 4 or 5 but at some point you need to git gud.

[Wulf_Ace]

To be honest after reading name of the topic I expected something diffrent...

[Seraphice]

8 hours ago, citaDELer said:

only HE have pene capability in mm????

The reason for this is that AP penetration scales with distance and every ship basically has a unique formula based on many characteristics such as shell caliber, weight, speed, drag, krupp value etc.
Hence the reason why there is no fixed value that we can show in port for this.

For those who are really interesting in more detailed statistics, there are plenty of 3rd party applications that visualise the penetration charts for ships.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Yedwy]

2 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

Hence the reason why there is no fixed value that we can show in port for this.

There is no sensible reason port couldnt include say penetration at 15km for all BBs

[Seraphice]

28 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

There is no sensible reason port couldnt include say penetration at 15km for all BBs

Say we do this and a person who does not know how AP penetration works looks at this number.
Now he compares this number between various ships and will see Ship A has a higher pen value at 15km than Ship B, so Ship A must have better penetration - but that is not always true, because of how penetration curves work in our game. Ship B could have better penetration at 16km+

 

Incomplete information is not great. Like we said, there are 3rd party apps available to those who really are interested in learning more, and there you will be able to find more detailed and more accurate information than just "penetration at 15km".
And for those who do not use said 3rd party applications it would not be very relevant to add this in-game either.
 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Panocek]

Just now, Seraphice said:

Say we do this and a person who does not know how AP penetration works looks at this number.
Now he compares this number between various ships and will see Ship A has a higher pen value at 15km than Ship B, so Ship A must have better penetration - but that is not always true, because of how penetration curves work in our game. Ship B could have better penetration at 16km+

 

Incomplete information is not great. Like we said, there are 3rd party apps available to those who really are interested in learning more, and there you will be able to find more detailed and more accurate information than just "penetration at 15km".
And for those who do not use said 3rd party applications it would not be very relevant to add this in-game either.
 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

I'm positively convinced something like 

Penetration at:

5km - x

10km - y

15km - z

 

should be doable and understandable enough? Heck, even WG used this format in Armada series

[Molly_Delaney]

2 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

Rather than using foul language, learn how to use a search function on the forums.

What? just because he missed the s from fsck...

[Seraphice]

2 hours ago, Figment said:

Would be nice to get a min-max pen value really. At least it'd give some indication. 

I can see the point to have the pen value at 0km and the ship's max range, but to some this may seem by looking at this that the penetration formula is linear, for someone who is not aware how the penetration curves look, which is not true either.
Perhaps a penetration at 50% of the max range would then be more helpful as well, though this would obviously make it hard to compare ships, which then you would need to use a 3rd party app for anyway.

So while a decent idea, 3rd party apps are still the best tool for such a thing, as it allows for the most complete information. Incomplete information is not great as I mentioned above

 

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

I'm positively convinced something like 

Penetration at:

5km - x

10km - y

15km - z

 

should be doable and understandable enough? Heck, even WG used this format in Armada series

Kind of as I mentioned above, though as a simplified thing, yes this would be good, but not optimal.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Figment]

4 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

I can see the point to have the pen value at 0km and the ship's max range, but to some this may seem by looking at this that the penetration formula is linear, for someone who is not aware how the penetration curves look, which is not true either.
Perhaps a penetration at 50% of the max range would then be more helpful as well, though this would obviously make it hard to compare ships, which then you would need to use a 3rd party app for anyway.

So while a decent idea, 3rd party apps are still the best tool for such a thing, as it allows for the most complete information. Incomplete information is not great as I mentioned above

 

Kind of as I mentioned above, though as a simplified thing, yes this would be good, but not optimal.

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

What would be nice is if you could input the distance and get an output. You could put in a sliderbar for setting the range and maybe use colour for  indication of how great a percentage of the optimal penetration the penetration is at that range. With a little colour legenda below it and a tool tip on how to use the slider bar, of course. :)

[Zemeritt]

49 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

For those who are really interesting in more detailed statistics, there are plenty of 3rd party applications that visualise the penetration charts for ships.

 

Of course, let others do the work for free, so that WG doesn't have to put money into providing information for players.

If the numbers would confuse players is a really bad argument, considering how "uninformed" many of the players actually play the game.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 minute ago, Zemeritt said:

 

Of course, let others do the work for free, so that WG doesn't have to put money into providing information for players.

If the numbers would confuse players is a really bad argument, considering how "uninformed" many of the players actually play the game.

If you really seek the information you will find it especially if it's important to you. WG can't be blamed for people not being able to go to a bit of effort to get what data they need.

 

Btw to know these pen values really won't improve your gameplay. Not knowing them is not an excuse for being terrible at the game.

[22cm]

53 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

There is no sensible reason port couldnt include say penetration at 15km for all BBs

Actually it is better to show the lowest penetration, at the maximum range.

[22cm]

1 hour ago, Wulf_Ace said:

To be honest after reading name of the topic I expected something diffrent...

Maybe what he really asked was where in the fck was the penetration...

[Karasu_Browarszky]

37 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

Say we do this and a person who does not know how AP penetration works looks at this number.
Now he compares this number between various ships and will see Ship A has a higher pen value at 15km than Ship B, so Ship A must have better penetration - but that is not always true, because of how penetration curves work in our game. Ship B could have better penetration at 16km+

 

Incomplete information is not great. Like we said, there are 3rd party apps available to those who really are interested in learning more, and there you will be able to find more detailed and more accurate information than just "penetration at 15km".
And for those who do not use said 3rd party applications it would not be very relevant to add this in-game either.
 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

 

It's just that the 15 km range seems like the optimal range considering many maps. I don't know, but I assume that aside from caliber considerations, ships with a longer maximum range should also have a better pen when going over the 15 km range.

[Figment]

7 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

It's just that the 15 km range seems like the optimal range considering many maps. I don't know, but I assume that aside from caliber considerations, ships with a longer maximum range should also have a better pen when going over the 15 km range.

That does depend on their angle of impact amongst other things.

Btw, it'd be nice if the accuracy would change along with it if you'd use that slider as well.