Playerbase degraded so hard it loses basic operations

[Bland_42]

9 minuti fa, Verblonde ha scritto:

Ah, you must be new here; please permit me to introduce you to the average WOWS player...!

Indeed... I was expressing a "gentle" opinion of mine.

[VenividiviciNL]

The only way I play Operations is with forumites like @Saltface, @DFens_666, @lup3sand members of the EST clan, which @Saltface offered to all of us through his Discord server (look it up on the forum posts).

 

We play all or most Operations during the evening and we generally end up with a 100% winrate with our preferred ships (DD, CA/CL, BB and CV's) for the specific Op we choose (1 after the other).

 

Completely loaded with best economic boosters and yet, people are still free to use regular tech tree ships to level them (for example RB tokens).

 

This way we all score maximal for the evening in Ops as we ALL know what to do in the specific ship we sail (allthough not always we all survive ofc).

 

Keep that in mind when playing Operations (not randomly, but in full division from start).

 

Have fun and enjoy the waves.

[Schelfie]

1 hour ago, JohnMac79 said:

 

For the same reason they put arms race in the randoms rotation, and the same reason they are considering putting dirigible derby in the randoms rotation... concerns on player numbers...

And how is that working out for them. Not so good, i should think...

[RenamedUser_92906789]

23 hours ago, VenividiviciNL said:

The only way I play Operations is with forumites like @Saltface, @DFens_666, @lup3sand members of the EST clan, which @Saltface offered to all of us through his Discord server (look it up on the forum posts).

 

We play all or most Operations during the evening and we generally end up with a 100% winrate with our preferred ships (DD, CA/CL, BB and CV's) for the specific Op we choose (1 after the other).

 

Completely loaded with best economic boosters and yet, people are still free to use regular tech tree ships to level them (for example RB tokens).

 

This way we all score maximal for the evening in Ops as we ALL know what to do in the specific ship we sail (allthough not always we all survive ofc).

 

Keep that in mind when playing Operations (not randomly, but in full division from start).

 

Have fun and enjoy the waves.

 

Another option is random ops with 6 man division taking in one random potato to avoid the -25% xp penalty.

[MoveZig]

It's the op rework. The bots in Aegis are now much deadlier, they HE you down in no time. Hermes fails near the end if no one goes ahead to deal with the red DDs. Newport actually feels easier, maybe also Raptor.

[lup3s]

10 minutes ago, MoveZig said:

It's the op rework. The bots in Aegis are now much deadlier, they HE you down in no time. Hermes fails near the end if no one goes ahead to deal with the red DDs. Newport actually feels easier, maybe also Raptor.

 

In Aegis it usually comes down to how many players follow the potato strategy down the G/H line.

In Hermes (as well Narai) I've never understood why people are sailing behind the ship(s) they're supposed to escort/protect.

[Vbeest]

4 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

In Aegis it usually comes down to how many players follow the potato strategy down the G/H line.

In Hermes (as well Narai) I've never understood why people are sailing behind the ship(s) they're supposed to escort/protect.

 

This way the enemy bots don't shoot at them. It is very unpleasant for the players in this game to be shot at. They avoid it at all costs in all battle modes.

[lup3s]

6 minutes ago, Vbeest said:

 

This way the enemy bots don't shoot at them. It is very unpleasant for the players in this game to be shot at. They avoid it at all costs in all battle modes.

 

Issue with going G/H line :

 

- can't shoot the first wave --> the first wave survives longer than it should --> combine with the second wave and escort ships --> more bots dealing more damage := failure

- can't shoot the second wave and definitely not their broadside --> the second wave survives longer than it should --> more bots dealing more damage := failure

- "crossing the T" --> can't reliably damage ships

[Vbeest]

Just now, lup3s said:

- "crossing the T" --> can't reliably damage ships

 

You speak as if it was anything about damaging enemy ships in WoWs. Your effort is to survive, to live to fight another day...

[ColonelPete]

24 minutes ago, MoveZig said:

It's the op rework. The bots in Aegis are now much deadlier, they HE you down in no time. Hermes fails near the end if no one goes ahead to deal with the red DDs. Newport actually feels easier, maybe also Raptor.

If the team does not kill the enemy, you could get gunned down with HE years ago. Getting targeted by 6+ ships reduces the survival time drastictly.

[Pukovnik7]

On 12/30/2022 at 11:39 AM, ARE_YOU_HUMAN said:

For the first time in my WoWs career, I had an operation losing streak. People refusing to def objectives, act like bots. I'm so sure that some people are running bots now. And some throw their ships when they don't like the op they get. The last fun part of the game has become such a s#itshow.

Of course it is happening, when the people who play the game these days simply do not care about playing, but do it because they have nothing better to do.

[DFens_666]

On 12/30/2022 at 4:57 PM, VenividiviciNL said:

The only way I play Operations is with forumites like @Saltface, @DFens_666, @lup3sand members of the EST clan, which @Saltface offered to all of us through his Discord server (look it up on the forum posts).

 

We play all or most Operations during the evening and we generally end up with a 100% winrate with our preferred ships (DD, CA/CL, BB and CV's) for the specific Op we choose (1 after the other).

 

Completely loaded with best economic boosters and yet, people are still free to use regular tech tree ships to level them (for example RB tokens).

 

This way we all score maximal for the evening in Ops as we ALL know what to do in the specific ship we sail (allthough not always we all survive ofc).

 

Keep that in mind when playing Operations (not randomly, but in full division from start).

 

Have fun and enjoy the waves.

 

Last few weeks ive played occasionally solo OPs since people are busy with the holidays and such so there wasnt always someone around to play with... holy smokes. Best to only play the super OP stuff like Mainz or Kutu so you can atleast carry (alltho some other Cruisers work too).

I hope they really deliver more OPs, harder OPs and include more tiers (higher ones), as they said in the devblog.

[user7890]

When Operations were Tier 6 (and Tier 7 for Naraii week) on Thursday and Friday, it was a bit tricky, with a few new players. After that it was more straight forward.

 

The only tough one was Newport, until late Spring 2022, as the Forts were made tougher, it became easier to get 1 or 2* wins with inexperienced players.

 

These days Newport is usually winnable except when Newbies charge forward and get picked off 3 on 1!

 

Likewise, Raptor is usually lost when the team "forgets" to escort Raptor...

 

The main gotcha I find today is the wrong ship for the Operation. Some Ops need good air defence Hermes & Cherry Blossom.

 

I still want to back to fixed weeks for a given operation to allow players to choose their ship.

[Drug_Kartman]

I'm amazed that there are no fatalities within the average WG playerbase when they focus too much on clicking buttons and forget to breathe.

[Ronchabale]

On 12/30/2022 at 12:00 PM, Redcap375 said:

The MM monitor has been depressing for a number of years and it WILL get worse. 

 

 

Why would you even want to use a MM monitor, you gonnna roll over if your team is too weak ?

 

 

 

[WingedHussar_Adler]

Yesterday I had a couple of games where not a single player except my division had over 50% wr and in most cases bots had under 500 gaMes and played TX.....most special guy was Smaland with 38% wr under 100 games iin total. 

 

❤️ 

[Vbeest]

On 12/31/2022 at 4:21 PM, MoveZig said:

It's the op rework. The bots in Aegis are now much deadlier, they HE you down in no time. Hermes fails near the end if no one goes ahead to deal with the red DDs. Newport actually feels easier, maybe also Raptor.

 

The bots got tweaked multiple times as of late, with now being both harder to kill (evade torps) and better in offensive terms (they use consumables). The bots have perfect focus fire, to the point that they will all hunt you down even from the other side of the map. In such circumstances, the "old trick" of bots having much higher fire chance needs to go.

 

Also, it would be much better if the bots would not be focusing the ships with lowest HPs. In the current situation, active and aggressive play is punished heavily in ops, which I think is a serious flaw taking all the reward away from experienced players. All in all, I think that good players will be rarer in ops, which will only lower the chance for winning for newer players, which in turn will make them go away as well (... which perhaps is the whole point of the rework of ops, after all in WG games playing good is the greatest offense).

[Figment]

On 12/30/2022 at 12:32 PM, ColonelPete said:

1. Random Operations - players cannot prepare for the Operation and risk taking the wrong ship, practicing a specific Operation is also harder
2. Not introduce Random Operations

I have literally never brought the wrong ship to an OP... For you can literally always compensate with skill, OP experience and teamwork to devise a strategy that focuses on your strengths and mitigates your weaknesses...

 

 

Which is the actual issue: people don't know the OPs, don't understand the objectives (localization might solve this in part) and don't cooperate (rather they'll whine at one another) and while many don't understand their ships and basic mechanics, a lot more will be bringing them into OPs and Coop to try and grind exp for those ships and some missions and retrain captains to basic levels for Randoms and Ranked.

 

Their goals ought to still be playing the OP well to achieve such goals, which is possible, but takes effort. Especially when they bring lowest tiers into a strengthened OP. I don't really have an issue bringing a lower tier (it just means more exp for me), but for many this is a problem.

 

The only thing WG can do IMO is increase the times the same tiers are brought to the same match by slowing down the MM a bit.

[KhorneFlake]

On 12/30/2022 at 11:42 AM, MarChil said:

It's what you get when a company fails at basic quality control. If only they had competent staff with the vision to prevent this from happening....

 

*disclaimer* in no way do I have the intention of offending or insulting specific persons.

Yeah, it's WGs fault that some ppl nowadays are too stupid to hold a knife and fork...

 

And these ppl increase in Numbers every day sadly

[DirtyHeddy]

30 minutes ago, Figment said:

I have literally never brought the wrong ship to an OP...

Maybe You've chosen always the versatile ones - which is a wise decision

30 minutes ago, Figment said:

For you can literally always compensate with skill, OP experience and teamwork to devise a strategy that focuses on your strengths and mitigates your weaknesses...

Some ships do not perform well in all ops. But there are a lot of ships which will work in every OP, and in many cases these are techtree-ships (e.g. Cleveland)

 

30 minutes ago, Figment said:

Thich is the actual issue: people don't know the OPs, don't understand the objectives (localization might solve this in part) and don't cooperate (rather they'll whine at one another) and while many don't understand their ships and basic mechanics, a lot more will be bringing them into OPs and Coop to try and grind exp for those ships and some missions and retrain captains to basic levels for Randoms and Ranked.

Fully agreed. Many players in OPs are bloody beginners. Even many of the more experienced are new to OPs or COOP.

 

30 minutes ago, Figment said:

The only thing WG can do IMO is increase the times the same tiers are brought to the same match by slowing down the MM a bit.

Mixing T6 ships with T8 in operation does no work well. There should be games with T6/T7 and games with T7/T8

[Figment]

22 minutes ago, DirtyHeddy said:

Maybe You've chosen always the versatile ones - which is a wise decision

 

Some ships do not perform well in all ops. But there are a lot of ships which will work in every OP, and in many cases these are techtree-ships (e.g. Cleveland)

No, I just grab whatever I feel like at the time, which often are things I rarely play and are subpar for Randoms, so that often means the more specialist ships and some premiums, or stuff I don't feel like grinding in Randoms because it's too shitty stock. With regards to OPs, everything is versatile enough as long as you choose a route that suits your ship class and type.

 

Made Shinanome for instance work in "AA dependent" OPs by focusing on spotting and torping enemy DDs and cruisers ahead of schedule (from smoke ofc as bots ignore you once you're in smoke most the time). So the air threat might have been a little greater for the team, the torp and HE threat was reduced.

 

Made New Mex work in a mission where I was far too slow to keep up with the group, but ended up the only ship alive to take down airfields and mob up the remaining cruisers and DDs.

Quote

Fully agreed. Many players in OPs are bloody beginners. Even many of the more experienced are new to OPs or COOP.

Tbh I don't think being a beginner is a bad thing in OPs and Coop. Even strong bots are dumb enough and aim poorly enough to be outplayed with relatively simple yolos. The main issue is not knowing what the next phase of the mission brings.

Quote

Mixing T6 ships with T8 in operation does no work well. There should be games with T6/T7 and games with T7/T8

It's not too bad unless you're a highly visible T6 that also overextends tbh. But that's things that new players will not be able to manage well. I've also noticed that bots tend to focus fire more these days, which may create additional issues for beginning and players thinking they can do the mission with no regard for or help from their fellow OPs players.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

A quick thought, does the MM consider individual ships at all, meaning relative strengths and weaknesses like we see those numerical values in port, or does MM just 'see' the tiers and classes?

[Figment]

Just now, Karasu_Browarszky said:

A quick thought, does the MM consider individual ships at all, meaning relative strengths and weaknesses like we see those numerical values in port, or does MM just 'see' the tiers and classes?

The MM has never seen relative pros and cons of ships, it only considers tiers and classes and some special matchmaking protections.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

2 minutes ago, Figment said:

The MM has never seen relative pros and cons of ships, it only considers tiers and classes and some special matchmaking protections.

 

Which then means, that if you want to play smart, you only pick the strongest ships per tier/class you got. That's a huge downside, because I've always appreciated the opportunity to grind the midtiers in ops instead of randoms.

[Figment]

9 minutes ago, Karasu_Browarszky said:

Which then means, that if you want to play smart, you only pick the strongest ships per tier/class you got. That's a huge downside, because I've always appreciated the opportunity to grind the midtiers in ops instead of randoms.

Why? Playing smart isn't the same as playing easymode brute force. If you want to challenge yourself you pick something weaker that requires you to stay alert even to bots, or, if you're good, you pick the higher risk role, just because you're able to manage that better than a ship with a newbee in it. If the DD or carrier is played by a competent player, this can mitigate a lot of poor players. If you're good and pick a lower tier, it means there'll be easier targets for your fellow players too. This is one of the reasons why I pick a low tier in Ranked if it's got two tier choices: at least one enemy will be of lower tier too and I'm good enough to overcome tier differences.

 

Of course, bad players will still ignore using the smokescreen you put down for them and rush through it or alongside of it instead... But then they do that in Ranked and Randoms also... So yeah... :P

 

In principle though, every ship can work in any available OP to it. It may however require you to treat her differently and take on different tasks or from different positions and apply different teamwork strategies.

 

The most important thing in OPs IMO is to get teamwork going. Make sure people know what they're going to do. Ask at the start if people know the OP. Mark map locations and state next wave threats prior to them occuring if they don't. Tell them what you expect from them. Tell them what you're doing and if necessary, why. If you want OPs to improve from a player perspective, then every OP should have learning moments for someone on that team. Which is quite likely.

 

Of course there's the potential language barrier or recalcitrant teenager barrier, but in general I've found people to be willing to listen to someone taking on the role of commander, especially if they listen to what their fellow players prefer to do. You can make that sort of action work in a team framing. Just be sure they're suggestions, not orders (aside from marking priority targets for focus fire).