Why play Ohio over Thunderer?

[tocqueville8]

8 hours ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Can you share your opinion concerning Daring vs Vampire 2?

 

About equal, though the Vampire can force herself on other DDs early on (hydro+smoke) if is she's sure they have little support. Daring has to stay more defensive: her hydro is nice to have, but it doesn't really allow to "make a play". As such, Vampire is probably better for Ranked, where early wins are less likely to be diluited by the team.

Contrary to some recommendations, on the Vampire I take neither smoke nor hydro coal modules, only the skill.

 

I really don't think there is much to say about them: they are sidegrades, I think.

[tocqueville8]

11 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Considered Colbert since I do enjoy cruisers, but short-range lofty shell arc fire spammer? Why not just play my Marceau and enjoy not getting blapped or citadelled?!

 

Because Colbert has:

1. double the DPM (higher still in theory, but 2/8 turrets are hard to use)
2. the same speed boost
3. four improved heals (Montana-like size, but 50% of citadel damage)
4. unique looks
5. some actual history

All I can say is: I have both, got them at about the same time, but I've played the Colbert a lot more even though I like the Marceau.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

34 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Considered Colbert since I do enjoy cruisers, but short-range lofty shell arc fire spammer? Why not just play my Marceau and enjoy not getting blapped or citadelled?! 

uh....

 

 

 

 

It basically is a different thing, Mademoiselle Marceau is an open water attention , Colbert does that only out of necessity. They're similar but not the same - if you enjoy Marceau, I'm sure you like Colbert.

Just watch BBs wet their pants once you aim your golden shower of love in their general direction, it's hilarious. And all BBabies deserve to burn.

 

Fires per minute are 20 vs 10, too... but alas, no torps. But hilarious AP dpm at short ranges.

 

[KillStealBoss]

5 hours ago, Cummingwood said:

Yea I know. But for some reason I'm okay with Vermont.

But my mind is just used to Georgia I guess.

Big guns big speed. less barrels.

Unless its vermont. in which case feel free to grab a beer from the kitchen after setting your ship on maxspeed forward.

The issue with Ohio and other secondary specced ships that people tend to push harder in them to use the secondaries. I'm also falling into that (happens when I think I can push a bit seeing that the enemy team is too passive and suddenly I get into a trap) and it's not about Montana being more tanky. On mid range both ships have same tankiness. 

[Redcap375]

Hey @OldschoolGaming_YouTube.

 

Ohio is my joint favourite BB in the whole game and I have quite a few 

 

It's such a jack of all trades but the bar is high on all of those Jack's. 

 

Hard hitting guns that have BB as well as cruiser sweet spots, secondaries to set fires after fires not to mention shredding DDs, quick heal, decent HP, fighter or spotter, good range and can be kitted with whatever style you want. Then you add in a premium captain? 

 

I have the thunderer too but a part from the first lot of games when I got it, don't play it much. Its too sit at the back for me.  Great ship, but more restricted than the Ohio IMHO. 

 

2 good ships but I always pick the Ohio first in tier 10 randoms, CBs or ranked if a BB is required.

 

So maybe I'm biased, but there is a good reason for it. 

[Hirohito]

5 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

About equal, though the Vampire can force herself on other DDs early on (hydro+smoke) if is she's sure they have little support. Daring has to stay more defensive: her hydro is nice to have, but it doesn't really allow to "make a play".

The other way around imo.

Vampire II is held back by the smoke, because once you use it you cant un-use it, as the cooldown is huge.

So while you can potentially make a smoke+Hydro play, you are tied to the cooldowns even more than a Z-52.

Meanwhile Daring can allow for aggressive plays, because you "always" have a smoke to disengage when you need to, while being able to re-engage shortly after without being out of cooldowns for the next few minutes.

This lets you push in with more confidence than a lot of other DDs, and pick repeated short duration engagements where the odds are stacked in your favour over time.

Had some really hilarious situations against Vampires that had to blow smoke to get out of a bad sitation, only to lay a carpet of smoke as he retreated, telling us exactly where he was running off and opening himself up to blindfire, while simultaneously denying his team vision because the smoke puffs covered his retreat for so long.

That crawling smoke is a gimmick more than an actual asset imo.

[BLUB__BLUB]

13 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

I guess Ohio has fast heals and decent secondary's, but why choose it over Thunderer that can devastate BBs with both its HE and AP?

You do not choose Ohio over Thunderer, because it is quite different. 

You choose Ohio over Montana. Or maybe over Vermont. 

Ohio is the BLAP machine that is also tanky and can go up close. 

Ohio is played many times in CB (as preferred over Montana), Thunderer is not. 

 

You should compare Conqueror ---> Thunderer and Montana --> Ohio. 

THAT is a similar comparison. Some strong points are added compared to the tech-tree ship, some are a taken away.

Like Thunderer missing the zombie heal. Wouldn't know what Ohio is missing though (AA?).

Also, on Ohio a secondary-build is viable, which it isn't on Montana. 

 

Strange thing though, I like my Conq better (and use it in CB...) than the Thunderer.
But I lik my Ohio (which I use in CB, too) much much better than my Montana (which I almost never play).

But I'm weird anyway as my most played BB in CB is Colombo... which si also my most successfull T10 BB. 

 

I'm not a DD main but... my son is... and... he says... 

Vampire 2 is a different animal than a Daring. Quite different. 

It is like 50% more dakkadakka based  and 50% less torps. 

Daring is better than Vampire, but Vampire is still good. 

(I have Vampire and I like it). 

 

Note that I really like my Paolo Yolo as well, even though I suck in randoms with it.

Which is mostly because if you HAVE TO perform the DD role, well it is NOT a DD, so then it sucks heaps.

It is still fun though when you slam the torps into the red DD, just not so effective as slamming them into a fat BB.

 

13 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

So I should almost ask "Why play Ohio over Schleiffen" then?

Eh well, now THAT would be a good question. Schlieffen is the 'push-in ship' in CB, Ohio the "back guard".  They are quite a bit different.

 

 

 

[tocqueville8]

1 hour ago, Hirohito said:

Vampire II is held back by the smoke, because once you use it you cant un-use it, as the cooldown is huge. 

So while you can potentially make a smoke+Hydro play, you are tied to the cooldowns even more than a Z-52.

Meanwhile Daring can allow for aggressive plays, because you "always" have a smoke to disengage when you need to, while being able to re-engage shortly after without being out of cooldowns for the next few minutes.

 

But the Daring can't set the trap.

 

I mean...sure, her arrangement is more flexible against CVs and when farming damage, but she still needs someone else to spot the enemy DD while she uses a smoke. You want "repeated short duration engagements"? You need repeated spotting, and DDs won't stay spotted from the smoke-firing penalty alone.

 

Vampire also has better concealment and a speed boost, so she has a slightly easier time catching the DD in her hydro: I'm not saying they're free kills, but they can be very cheap if they're a bit overextended. You get your First Blood, then you have the smoke to farm for a bit, as is the case with Friesland (another First Blood favorite).

 

To be clear, I'm not declaring the Vampire superior: to me they're about equal.

 

I think most people would prefer the Vampire's hydro, the Daring's smoke (although the other one can be used in wonky divisions, e.g. with a Schlieffen), a heal over the speed boost, but also the improved concealment and DPM of the Vampire.

[BLUB__BLUB]

8 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

 

To be clear, I'm not declaring the Vampire superior: to me they're about equal.

Yes their strength is about equal, but they are different. 
Also it matters what are you using them for, for example in Clan Battle. 

I am a N00b with DDs but I'll easily dakkadakka 75% of a Des Moines with Vampire. 

There are not many Dds that can with stand that dakka either.

 

The thing with Vampire smoke is, you can elect to stay in it (stopped/slow) but you can also "have a peek" easily. 

You go (on purpose) slightly too quick... have a peek... then slow down again. I got really good at that with Huang-He. 

[Nibenay78]

Somehow I like Montana better than Ohio. 

 

but in regards to OP, Ohio can tank crap, Thunderer can only eat damage for a while. I'd pick both Ohio and Montana over Thunderer in CB.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

24 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I am a N00b with DDs but I'll easily dakkadakka 75% of a Des Moines with Vampire. 

If it is dakka that you want, you need to Druid:

 

 

[KillStealBoss]

15 hours ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

uh....

 

 

 

 

It basically is a different thing, Mademoiselle Marceau is an open water attention , Colbert does that only out of necessity. They're similar but not the same - if you enjoy Marceau, I'm sure you like Colbert.

Just watch BBs wet their pants once you aim your golden shower of love in their general direction, it's hilarious. And all BBabies deserve to burn.

 

Fires per minute are 20 vs 10, too... but alas, no torps. But hilarious AP dpm at short ranges.

 

Yeah, they share same guns but not playstyle. It's like comparing Sims to Atlanta. 

[Hirohito]

9 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

mean...sure, her arrangement is more flexible against CVs and when farming damage, but she still needs someone else to spot the enemy DD while she uses a smoke. You want "repeated short duration engagements"? You need repeated spotting, and DDs won't stay spotted from the smoke-firing penalty alone.

I'm not talking about using the smoke to farm the enemy DD from (though go ahead of possible), but as a safety tool to have ready to be used once/if the advantage of the 1v1 health trade starts to swing the other way.

Daring has a low enough enough conceal that there are only few DDs that can hope to outspot it in time (shima and leg gearing come to mind), hence its usually possible to often repeatedly force a new engagement if desired.

[tocqueville8]

Just now, Hirohito said:

I'm not talking about using the smoke to farm the enemy DD from (though go ahead of possible), but as a safety tool to have ready to be used once/if the advantage of the 1v1 health trade starts to swing the other way.

 

Once again, I agree: I'm saying the Vampire's offense is sometimes better than the Daring's "active defense" (if you will), as it can get you a kill earlier and more autonomously.

 

My whole point is that, since the Daring is so good, her sidegrade is probably the strongest RB pick (she is for me, although the jury's still out on the Sevastopol). At the same time, being a sidegrade, she's also one of the least necessary picks, which is why I recommend Colbert, Slava and Druid for fun and replay value.

[Hirohito]

50 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

My whole point is that, since the Daring is so good, her sidegrade is probably the strongest RB pick 

Oh definitely.

I wish that crawling smoke would be optional though, because I dont think it works as well at T10 compared to Haida at T7, simply because of all the radar.

Would be quite OP though if the option meant short burst smoke paired with the rest of the package.

 

[KillStealBoss]

The discussion was initially about Thunderer and Ohio - ended up with Daring and Vampire 

Just saying. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 hours ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

If it is dakka that you want, you need to Druid:

Yes Druid is much fun in randoms, it seems. Especially if you're any good.

However in CB it just gets run down because it doesn't have torpedoes. 

Angle, and rush him. So Druid is not for me.  

[BLUB__BLUB]

40 minutes ago, KillStealBoss said:

The discussion was initially about Thunderer and Ohio - ended up with Daring and Vampire 

Just saying. 

No the original discussion was the question which one to get, Ohio or Vampire. 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

1 hour ago, KillStealBoss said:

The discussion was initially about Thunderer and Ohio - ended up with Daring and Vampire 

Just saying. 

It's a discussion. It's not like it belongs to anyone and everyone else can also find some information pertinent to him. I really can't see the issue, especially as the OP is still with us.

[KillStealBoss]

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

No the original discussion was the question which one to get, Ohio or Vampire. 

Uhm... Can you see the topic title? I see Thunderer not Vampire. 

 

1 hour ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

It's a discussion. It's not like it belongs to anyone and everyone else can also find some information pertinent to him. I really can't see the issue, especially as the OP is still with us.

I mean it evolved in a weird way. From BBs play into DDs. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

4 minutes ago, KillStealBoss said:

Uhm... Can you see the topic title? I see Thunderer not Vampire. 

 

Yes I can see, but I can read the first post by TS as well... 

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

Why play Colbert over Smolensk?

 

As the other ships compared above, they have a different playstyle. 

 

 

 

[________________Morrison]

On 12/27/2022 at 7:51 PM, KillStealBoss said:

The issue with Ohio and other secondary specced ships that people tend to push harder in them to use the secondaries. I'm also falling into that (happens when I think I can push a bit seeing that the enemy team is too passive and suddenly I get into a trap) and it's not about Montana being more tanky. On mid range both ships have same tankiness. 

Well, Uh This is how I spec my vermont captain. Since I got it after its buff. And sometimes it's just fun to get an ever so slightly faster reload. Was a T10 bb brawls build but I kept it.

I run ohio with main battery build and standard bb captain.

So but non the less It's a head on charge into battle. or out of if out numbered. but I just don't click with Ohio. And thats alright i guess

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

2 hours ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

Why play Colbert over Smolensk?

 

As the other ships compared above, they have a different playstyle.

skill vs smoke?

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

1 hour ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

skill vs smoke?

 

With the bad gun angles and ballistics, Colbert does not even have a real DPM/fire advantage over Smolensk. And yet Smolensk has been given smoke, torps etc.  

 

Why do you think a capable player can get more out of Colbert than Smolensk?