Is Kidd among the top 3 in T8 DDs (competitive mode)?

[lup3s]

I'd say Le Terrible but that's a personal bias.

Kidd and Akizuki are also strong - I can't really speak for the Cossack.

Lo Yang used to be a decent pick in Ranked though idk if she still is.

[Flaky26]

Před 9 hodinami luokailk řekl/a:

so in terms of heal: Neutra>Kidd>Jutland ? any numbers in details?

Neustrashimy can heal 30% HP (per 1 Repair Party), but has only 2 Repair Parties without Superintendant perk.

Kidd can heal standard 14%.

Orkan and Jutland only 10%.

https://shiptool.st/selected?s=AD508WD508RD709&c=top&p=con&os=mb&op=HE_DPM&o=desc

[Northern_Nightowl]

Vor 13 Stunden, GulvkluderGuld sagte:

Asashio is in the top 3 tier 8 dds in ranked, I discovered this randomly some seasons back. It was the one with highest average damage

 

 

Having since aquired one, i understunderstand why. Only cossack and harekaze has comparable concealment and positioned correctly it can cockblock both while inside it's own torp range of backline BBs 

 

 

When, as to be expected, both the HSF Harekaze and the Asashio are fully rigged for maximum concealment, they have AFAIK the lowest value in-game, with both at 5,4km.

That's 100 meters less than Cossack can have, but IMHO tactically irrelevant (I can't think of a way to use these 100m to play an outspotting game, as the distance is equal or less than your hull length. 1/10th of a second late in turning or a surprising wiggle by your opponent, and you'll get seen.

 

The Harekaze is a nice little ship. And it provides cat content for WoWS (Isoroku camo). xD

 

Regards, Nightowl

[Itwastuesday]

The Kidd is my favourite. Amazing ship. It excels at pure destroyer activities and I can't say anything bad about it.

[MadBadDave]

I’ve got Kidd and Cossack but much prefer Loyang, the gimped torps of the other 2 really do effect their usefulness.   My fave t8 dd is lightning but it’s also gimped by very short range torps, increase them to 10km and you’d transform her into a predator.

[22cm]

20 hours ago, luokailk said:

I know cossarck is the strongest. How is Kidd compared to the others, like terrible, Orkan, lightening?

I think officially Asashio is the strongest T8DD.

But which one is preferred varies from player to player.

[luokailk]

9 hours ago, Flaky26 said:

Neustrashimy can heal 30% HP (per 1 Repair Party), but has only 2 Repair Parties without Superintendant perk.

Kidd can heal standard 14%.

Orkan and Jutland only 10%.

https://shiptool.st/selected?s=AD508WD508RD709&c=top&p=con&os=mb&op=HE_DPM&o=desc

Tx a lot man!

[arttuperkunas]

4 hours ago, Northern_Nightowl said:

When, as to be expected, both the HSF Harekaze and the Asashio are fully rigged for maximum concealment, they have AFAIK the lowest value in-game, with both at 5,4km.

That's 100 meters less than Cossack can have, but IMHO tactically irrelevant (I can't think of a way to use these 100m to play an outspotting game, as the distance is equal or less than your hull length. 1/10th of a second late in turning or a surprising wiggle by your opponent, and you'll get seen.

 

The Harekaze is a nice little ship. And it provides cat content for WoWS (Isoroku camo). xD

 

Regards, Nightowl

Kagero class ships have the lowest concealment in their mm spread but not lowest in the game. T2 dds can get lower with concealment expert.

 

And yes, fully agree re harekaze..

[arttuperkunas]

31 minutes ago, 22cm said:

I think officially Asashio is the strongest T8DD.

But which one is preferred varies from player to player.

I think he was asking specifically for ranked. Imo akizuki, cossack, lightning, kidd and harekaze are stronger in ranked.

[quickr]

Kidd is good but it's not "competitive play" good

[Gosuto_kuchiku_kan]

Vor 1 Stunde, quickr sagte:

Kidd is good but it's not "competitive play" good

Care to explain? Kidd has all the tools it needs to be the best pick for comp as it can smoke teammates, outtrade any t8 DD with the heal and still has one set of torps. Cossack loses to a Kidd due to no team utilities and has even worse torps. Akizuki has good dpm but no heal, short duration smoke. 

If you play for cap control Kidd just beats all the rest because of its smoke utility.

[Hirohito]

3 hours ago, Gosuto_kuchiku_kan said:

If you play for cap control Kidd just beats all the rest because of its smoke utility.

Short smokes are the key to cap control, because it allows you to play more aggressively, whereas you are hampered by a long cooldown with the US smoke.

Long US smokes are good for smoking up teammates, but not for contesting a cap by itself.

[Panocek]

3 hours ago, Gosuto_kuchiku_kan said:

Care to explain? Kidd has all the tools it needs to be the best pick for comp as it can smoke teammates, outtrade any t8 DD with the heal and still has one set of torps. Cossack loses to a Kidd due to no team utilities and has even worse torps. Akizuki has good dpm but no heal, short duration smoke. 

If you play for cap control Kidd just beats all the rest because of its smoke utility.

Kidd "team utility" is long duration smoke, which leaves her vulnerable for the lengthy cooldown. Cossack short smokes might not help with raking up nice damage numbers, but can save someone butt and cover retreat, while long duration hydro is certainly "team utility" as well, spotting torps early.

 

And I wouldn't consider Cossack torps to be worse than Kidd, quite the opposite.

If memory serves me right, you had ONE Kidd vs Cossack engagement that was decided not by player skill, not by ship properties, but RNG sending one shell astray 

[GulvkluderGuld]

11 hours ago, Northern_Nightowl said:

When, as to be expected, both the HSF Harekaze and the Asashio are fully rigged for maximum concealment, they have AFAIK the lowest value in-game, with both at 5,4km.

That's 100 meters less than Cossack can have, but IMHO tactically irrelevant (I can't think of a way to use these 100m to play an outspotting game, as the distance is equal or less than your hull length. 1/10th of a second late in turning or a surprising wiggle by your opponent, and you'll get seen.

 

The Harekaze is a nice little ship. And it provides cat content for WoWS (Isoroku camo). xD

 

Regards, Nightowl

True except all kagero-class ships share the same concealment. I love my harekaze. Its actually my favorite T8 DD for ranked. 

 

4 hours ago, Gosuto_kuchiku_kan said:

Care to explain? Kidd has all the tools it needs to be the best pick for comp as it can smoke teammates, outtrade any t8 DD with the heal and still has one set of torps. Cossack loses to a Kidd due to no team utilities and has even worse torps. Akizuki has good dpm but no heal, short duration smoke. 

If you play for cap control Kidd just beats all the rest because of its smoke utility.

We're talking Ranked here, not comp, so Kidd smokes are actually a detriment - since when would you rely on teammates in Ranked???

Kidd do NOT beat Cossack/harekaze/asashio at cap control  since it has significantly worse concealment and will lose any spotting contest. 

Kidd does outspot Akizuki, but Aki dont give a sh*t about caps, it can and will simply kill the enemy support first, then push the cap with support and the unsupported Kidd will have to bug out.

That's my opinion and experience in Ranked.

 

I dont think Kidd belongs in the very top tier of T8 DDs even for comp (unless every game has a CV) but that is a different story and there's not been T8 comp for a looooooong time.

Cossack is simply too superior in all departments (better concealment means dictating the terms of the engagements, single launch torps >> Kidd options, defensive hydro, better guns)

Below Cossack, I'd even put Harekaze and Akizuki as slightly stronger than Kidd - both has superior versatility in non-CV games.

[Gosuto_kuchiku_kan]

Vor 7 Minuten, GulvkluderGuld sagte:

since when would you rely on teammates in Ranked???

Never.

And t8 seasons for CBS are rare

[quickr]

4 hours ago, Gosuto_kuchiku_kan said:

Cossack loses to a Kidd due to no team utilities and has even worse torps

I'll take cossack, you take kidd and lets try out this theory.

 

4 hours ago, Gosuto_kuchiku_kan said:

If you play for cap control Kidd just beats all the rest because of its smoke utility.

Also, good luck sitting in your smoke without hydro/radar

 

Now, I'm not an amazing player, but I know a thing or two about USS kidd after playing 750 games in it

 

 

 

[Gosuto_kuchiku_kan]

Vor 20 Minuten, quickr sagte:

I'll take cossack, you take kidd and lets try out this theory.

 

Also, good luck sitting in your smoke without hydro/radar

 

Now, I'm not an amazing player, but I know a thing or two about USS kidd after playing 750 games in it

 

 

 

Slow down I never implied that you know nothing. There is no reason for 1vs1 or similar as I talked about comp. And what you sadly disregard is that a team played around using a Kidd won't have a Kidd selfishly sitting in smoke and they won't be in positions to get formed by Akizukis or such easily either. I specifically said comp having competent players like yourself in mind. There won't be simple plays we need to discuss and going in depth on situations is a never ending discussion so let's not do this.

Im saying in comp with the right team setup Kidd outshines other setups if played right. And by played right I am talking about both teams playing at least unicum level. You won't see throws and inting there and you won't see an Aki farming the Kidds support either because these players won't be as terrible as to let that happen. 

 

I agree that in randoms /ranked cossack has more utility and carry potential.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

12 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

The Kidd is my favourite. Amazing ship. It excels at pure destroyer activities and I can't say anything bad about it.

Same here! 

 

For Randoms its Kidd and Asashio, both extremely strong in different ways. Before I used to enjoy Cossack but its hard to get really good games in because of the lack of heal. With Kidd you can make some mistakes and even take some knife fights and still make it to the end and usually end up carry you team to a win, which I cant say as much for Cossack.

 

Lo Yang is still also a favorite.