How about giving US light cruisers AA that actually works?

[Navinor]

The information posted by WG about the AA rework shows us they know about the problematic state of the AA. 

 

The problem is this: How to make the CV work without killing it outright. 

 

The problem is simple. When you make the AA so strong that the CV can not hit at least once, you can outright remove them from the game. Nobody will play them. Because if you can not land at least the first hit, you won't land the second. 

 

I understand why WG is going for the aproach of making sure a CV will loose at least some planes with the first attack wave so not all bombs, rockets or torpedos hit the target. 

 

It is basically the Nakhimov aproach, but the Nakhimov has one major design problem. You can drop all your ordonance  basically outside of AA range AND it does not care about enemy CV fighters. 

 

Even when WG will introduce the changes, it will simply nerv all CVs, but the strongest CV in the game will stay untouched. 

 

Then the balance when the CV is fighting not against 1 or 2 ships but 5 at once. 

 

How to balance the CV against a fleet of ships. 

 

WG could go back to the very very old AA system, where AA ships like the Atlanta could delete you whole squdron within seconds. 

 

But then all the CV lines would have to be balanced in a way that they would have to hit as hard as the Nakhimow. 

 

Otherwise you would end up with 5 AA ships in a game which could all delete your squadron within 2 seconds but your CV would be still designed to attack multiple times. The result would be, all CVs useless excluding the Nakhimov. 

 

Back in the "old days" when the AA was still usefull a CV could delete your ship with ONE aproach. Because the CV game was basically an RTS game with multiple squadrons. And you could cross drop your torpedos. 

 

Do you really want THAT kind of CV gameplay back? 

 

 

 

 

[Nibenay78]

13 hours ago, Navinor said:

Do you really want THAT kind of CV gameplay back? 

Yes

 

And then WG can spend all the time and money for the rework on the old gameplay also and see if it comes out better..

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Navinor said:

Back in the "old days" when the AA was still usefull a CV could delete your ship with ONE aproach. Because the CV game was basically an RTS game with multiple squadrons. And you could cross drop your torpedos. 

 

The damage output of reworked CVs significantly outclasses their RTS predecessors as reworked CVs have much faster turnaround times and far more flexibility.

Cross dropping is still possible via sequential drop, which was also the preferred method to cross drop in RTS.

 

In reality the rework has solved practically no issues that RTS had while adding its own problem on top, meaning objectively it would be a significant improvement to return to RTS even if it also was significantly flawed.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

16 hours ago, Fediuld said:

Because only Malta will try to take out USN light cruiser near the end of the battle, otherwise will be left without airplanes. 

They don't care. "Ohlolol, look a Colbert, let's focus him, I have planes that can deal with light cruisers hurr durr". And it's even the smart move to remove the close support for the DD, because the BBabies sail the A line again. Flip over one domino and you win the flank.

Ah, let's not forget while being casually spotted, the BBs snipe you, too - one very badly aimed but lucky salvo is enough to ruin your day, because, you know, overmatch. The very same guys that keep bitching about HE spammers.

 

And you know what? It's entirely unfun on the receiving end. The CV deceides you need to die, you die. Why the flying can a player deceide this? At the cost of a few planes? A player that usually dies last that can't even be sniped (hurr durr 50mm deck) and then, when they had the chance to do something about that protected gameplay, they gave them automated nuclear derp charges and made it so that one unguided torp salvo isn't enough to delete the in the first place. Ah, also one minute DCP immunity, so you can't ping them and by the way, just sailing into the border makes all guided torps miss anyway.

 

14 hours ago, AtaIante said:

The amount of misinformation in this topic... just why?

No matter how strong you make AA a CV player with experience will still torture you. There are multiple ways a CV player can approach strong AA ships without putting many planes at risk and what you ask for is immunity to planes which will simply never happen so stop whining please and git gud.

How about you enlighten us how?

 

 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

9 hours ago, Navinor said:

Do you really want THAT kind of CV gameplay back?

 

 

Yes.

[ReverendFlashback]

18 hours ago, Fediuld said:

Let me guess, by "CV" you mean Soviet CV like Nakhimov. Because only Malta will try to take out USN light cruiser near the end of the battle, otherwise will be left without airplanes. 

Possibly Richthofen with rocket airplanes and lose them all if has a good straight flank to do citadels. 

 

Except Nakhimov only "player who do not know how to play", will attack a Seattle or Worcester. 

 

 

No. I mean any cv.

I don't know about the ups and downs of the different lines (except for japanese one having the best torps and russian ones probably being the most cancerous) because it doesn't matter at all.

They come across your vessel, you hit def aa and it doesn't matter, they drop their load and you loose a chunk of hp.

Not even a minute later they are back and then they are back again.

You either die directly to them or due to being permanently spotted.

And no: It is NOT possible to simply change position with the enemy bbs being only 9-10 km away on the other side of the island.

You are stuck there and all you can do is accept to die despite having played correctly and to your ships strength.

I wouldn't complain if I made a mistake and got devstriked. That's fine.

This crap however is not.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 hour ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

How about you enlighten us how? 

No thanks. It's a mindset thing and the process fails as soon as you think something similar to the following "Oh my god its sky crap again this is going to be terrible, let's put AtaIantes nonsense to the test i guess?".

It also doesn't help if the person who reads any sort of advice is nowehere near experienced enough to even understand it correctly so advice would need to be tailor made from individual to individual and any other generic nonsense would just be dishonest to be called advice. I think you understand what I mean.

 

One can't just talk another player into becoming a great player moment to moment. And most good players know how to behave around CVs anyway otherwise their performance would stop being consistent.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

12 hours ago, Navinor said:

The information posted by WG about the AA rework shows us they know about the problematic state of the AA. 

 

The problem is this: How to make the CV work without killing it outright. 

 

The problem is simple. When you make the AA so strong that the CV can not hit at least once, you can outright remove them from the game. Nobody will play them. Because if you can not land at least the first hit, you won't land the second. 

False dilemma.

12 hours ago, Navinor said:

 

I understand why WG is going for the aproach of making sure a CV will loose at least some planes with the first attack wave so not all bombs, rockets or torpedos hit the target. 

 

It is basically the Nakhimov aproach, but the Nakhimov has one major design problem. You can drop all your ordonance  basically outside of AA range AND it does not care about enemy CV fighters. 

 

Even when WG will introduce the changes, it will simply nerv all CVs, but the strongest CV in the game will stay untouched. 

 

Then the balance when the CV is fighting not against 1 or 2 ships but 5 at once. 

 

How to balance the CV against a fleet of ships. 

False dilemma.

12 hours ago, Navinor said:

 

WG could go back to the very very old AA system, where AA ships like the Atlanta could delete you whole squdron within seconds. 

 

But then all the CV lines would have to be balanced in a way that they would have to hit as hard as the Nakhimow. 

 

Otherwise you would end up with 5 AA ships in a game which could all delete your squadron within 2 seconds but your CV would be still designed to attack multiple times. The result would be, all CVs useless excluding the Nakhimov. 

False dilemma.

12 hours ago, Navinor said:

 

Back in the "old days" when the AA was still usefull a CV could delete your ship with ONE aproach. Because the CV game was basically an RTS game with multiple squadrons. And you could cross drop your torpedos. 

 

Do you really want THAT kind of CV gameplay back? 

False dilemma.

 

All I see is a pattern emerging honestly.

 

[22cm]

You know that most CV players play CVs because they have better stats in their CVs compared to the other classes?!

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 hour ago, 22cm said:

You know that most CV players play CVs because they have better stats in their CVs compared to the other classes?!

That is just a byproduct. Of course better stats will be had in CVs because of increased influence. But that is not the reason why I for example and other CV unicums play CVs.

In fact most CV unicums are very good players in surface ships too. 

[22cm]

4 minutes ago, AtaIante said:

That is just a byproduct. Of course better stats will be had in CVs because of increased influence. But that is not the reason why I for example and other CV unicums play CVs.

In fact most CV unicums are very good players in surface ships too. 

 What you re  saying is completely unrelated to what I said. Most players find the CV or sub gameplay boring AF that why most players dont play them. And most of the ones that play them do it because they get better stats in them

[ARE_YOU_HUMAN]

Do you guys expect cv players to say "Yeah something is definitely wrong with cvs" ? A very small majority of cv player might say it. Others brag and even s#it talk you in battle.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 minute ago, 22cm said:

 What you re  saying is completely unrelated to what I said.

No? I said what you said and the effect it has  is a byproduct. It is related?Maybe read again

[22cm]

1 minute ago, AtaIante said:

No? I said what you said and the effect it has  is a byproduct. It is related?Maybe read again

Yeah. Lol. Get lost. A byproduct of being OP and having no counter. Equal better stats.

 

[22cm]

5 minutes ago, ARE_YOU_HUMAN said:

Do you guys expect cv players to say "Yeah something is definitely wrong with cvs" ? A very small majority of cv player might say it. Others brag and even s#it talk you in battle.

Exactly. The best example is the Santa crates lottery:  the rush for ships that were removed for being OP.

[WarburtonLee]

17 hours ago, Navinor said:

The information posted by WG about the AA rework shows us they know about the problematic state of the AA. 

 

The problem is this: How to make the CV work without killing it outright. 

 

The problem is simple. When you make the AA so strong that the CV can not hit at least once, you can outright remove them from the game. Nobody will play them. Because if you can not land at least the first hit, you won't land the second. 

 

I understand why WG is going for the aproach of making sure a CV will loose at least some planes with the first attack wave so not all bombs, rockets or torpedos hit the target. 

 

It is basically the Nakhimov aproach, but the Nakhimov has one major design problem. You can drop all your ordonance  basically outside of AA range AND it does not care about enemy CV fighters. 

 

Even when WG will introduce the changes, it will simply nerv all CVs, but the strongest CV in the game will stay untouched. 

 

Then the balance when the CV is fighting not against 1 or 2 ships but 5 at once. 

 

How to balance the CV against a fleet of ships. 

 

WG could go back to the very very old AA system, where AA ships like the Atlanta could delete you whole squdron within seconds. 

 

But then all the CV lines would have to be balanced in a way that they would have to hit as hard as the Nakhimow. 

 

Otherwise you would end up with 5 AA ships in a game which could all delete your squadron within 2 seconds but your CV would be still designed to attack multiple times. The result would be, all CVs useless excluding the Nakhimov. 

 

Back in the "old days" when the AA was still usefull a CV could delete your ship with ONE aproach. Because the CV game was basically an RTS game with multiple squadrons. And you could cross drop your torpedos. 

 

Do you really want THAT kind of CV gameplay back? 

 

 

 

 

Yes i do

[22cm]

21 hours ago, Navinor said:

Back in the "old days" when the AA was still usefull a CV could delete your ship with ONE aproach. Because the CV game was basically an RTS game with multiple squadrons. And you could cross drop your torpedos. 

 

Do you really want THAT kind of CV gameplay back?

 

Back in the old days some cruisers like Minotaur, Neptune, Atlanta, Worcester, Cleveland, etc. could deplane a CV.

 

Do you even remember what "deplane" means?

[Nibenay78]

4 hours ago, 22cm said:

 

Back in the old days some cruisers like Minotaur, Neptune, Atlanta, Worcester, Cleveland, etc. could deplane a CV.

 

Do you even remember what "deplane" means?

Sitting in a good position in smoke with 8.6km AA in minotaur tended to constantly pick down planes.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

12 hours ago, 22cm said:

Yeah. Lol. Get lost. A byproduct of being OP and having no counter. Equal better stats.

 

You do realize that a CV player is judged differently as in 60%WR in CVs is not treated as is 60%WR in cruisers for example?

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

4 hours ago, AtaIante said:

You do realize that a CV player is judged differently as in 60%WR in CVs is not treated as is 60%WR in cruisers for example?

Like I care. That is all what is wrong about CVs. The very worst CVs make you lose 70% of the game. Any other class being AFK, not even DDs, manage this. CVs need a good swipe to the teeth with a nerf bat. Or at least make them prey for submersible scum, so they actually have to move around on the map, staying with their team and being in danger of actually being shot at during the course of the battle and not only when it's mop up time.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

4 minutes ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Like I care. That is all what is wrong about CVs. The very worst CVs make you lose 70% of the game. Any other class being AFK, not even DDs, manage this. CVs need a good swipe to the teeth with a nerf bat. Or at least make them prey for submersible scum, so they actually have to move around on the map, staying with their team and being in danger of actually being shot at during the course of the battle and not only when it's mop up time.

Well to bad for you, what you think should be, could be and so on doesn't matter and conflicts with WGs vision of the game.

We can agree on this as often as the pi has digits but it won't change the situation.

[PaP_Mentoles]

WeGreedy wants to protect their favorite toy. Imagine that a year ago (more or less), after a patch applied planes returning to carrier were getting shot by AA. After all the CV crying they edited and planes fly now unopposed. And you are asking working AA. They laugh at WeGreedy HQ

[Nit0]

On 12/25/2022 at 10:23 AM, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

 

Ah, let's not forget while being casually spotted, the BBs snipe you, too - one very badly aimed but lucky salvo is enough to ruin your day, because, you know, overmatch. 

 

 

If a BB snipes your light cruiser, it's on your lack of skill when it comes to situational awareness and reacting to incoming fire that is to blame, not their "luck" for hitting you. 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

11 hours ago, Nit0 said:

If a BB snipes your light cruiser, it's on your lack of skill when it comes to situational awareness and reacting to incoming fire that is to blame, not their "luck" for hitting you. 

Still, a light cruiser is deletable by a lucky stray dispersion shell - and deceiding if you want to eat the AP rockets, Malta AP bombs or the BB salvos is quite the conundrum as you can't do anything against all of them at the same time.

[FellRaven]

There used to be ships that were no fly zones Stalingrad and Minotaur were examples of this and yes those types and ships need to be brought back. WG know that the CV rework has been a fiasco and they repeatedly nerfed AA after it because the new CV Players complained: 

 

• Continuous damage AA was nerfed out of existance.
• AA Ranges were nerfed
• Flak was nerfed
• DD AA traps were nerfed (AA can no-longer be activated at 100% it ramps up)
• AA Immunity zones
• Dutch Cruisers Airstrikes

 

WG does not care about balance unless you are talking about their bank balance. They also don't care about player feedback it they did Subs would never have been introduced