silver ranked easy..take this! :

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

On 1/5/2023 at 3:36 PM, RazorBlade72 said:

And yes the remark that your teammates are not supporting enough is very understandable. I had that same feeling when I was playing as short as CSS_modding_1 is.

And this is the first step to enlightenment: Understanding that it's not the team, it's the player himself!

 

How do you improve when you feel that you already play good and when you blame your team, matchmaking, cheaters, the will of the gods or the phases of the moon? Simple - you don't! Because with that mindset you did everything correct and some external factor is to blame for your failure!

 

 

So, the idea is not to make him look bad, the idea is to do away with that erronous notion so he can actually understand that he basically sucks. If he understand that, entirely, without amusing anecdotal evidence, ever so often - and then proceeds to follow all the links and hints posted in this thread for his reading and/or viewing pleasure, he has a much better chance to git gud quickly.
 

Actually I feel it is insulting that you assert that I want to ridicule him, that's far from the truth.

 

[RazorBlade72]

On 1/6/2023 at 5:48 PM, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

And this is the first step to enlightenment: Understanding that it's not the team, it's the player himself!

 

How do you improve when you feel that you already play good and when you blame your team, matchmaking, cheaters, the will of the gods or the phases of the moon? Simple - you don't! Because with that mindset you did everything correct and some external factor is to blame for your failure!

 

 

So, the idea is not to make him look bad, the idea is to do away with that erronous notion so he can actually understand that he basically sucks. If he understand that, entirely, without amusing anecdotal evidence, ever so often - and then proceeds to follow all the links and hints posted in this thread for his reading and/or viewing pleasure, he has a much better chance to git gud quickly.
 

Actually I feel it is insulting that you assert that I want to ridicule him, that's far from the truth.

 

Lets assume somebody has 6 months math lessons and he has the highest scores of his class. You tell him that he sucks in math while I tell him that he is doing good. That is the difference. Is he better than other people with the same amount of experience? yes because he is the best in his class. Is he better then people who study math for many years, no of course not. If somebody is good or bad depends very much what you use as a reference.

 

I think you should compare apples with apples and therefore you should in this case compare his winrate with other people who have the same amount of experience. Also the winrate is a very poor measurement of somebodies individual skills. If I would constantly play together with two top players in a division then i will have a very different winrate then when I play with two very poor players. 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

8 hours ago, RazorBlade72 said:

Lets assume somebody has 6 months math lessons and he has the highest scores of his class. You tell him that he sucks in math while I tell him that he is doing good. That is the difference. Is he better than other people with the same amount of experience? yes because he is the best in his class. Is he better then people who study math for many years, no of course not. If somebody is good or bad depends very much what you use as a reference.

  

I think you should compare apples with apples and therefore you should in this case compare his winrate with other people who have the same amount of experience. 

 

"I'm very good, but my math teacher keeps asking the wrong questions"

"3+3=something between 5 and 7"

"It's not my fault we're doing fourier transform"

"I could't finish the assignment, my classmates distracted me"

"It's not my fault my calculation is wrong - I'm very good, after all"

 

9 hours ago, RazorBlade72 said:

Also the winrate is a very poor measurement of somebodies individual skills. If I would constantly play together with two top players in a division then i will have a very different winrate then when I play with two very poor players. 

Correct, the win rate is quite the crutch as seal clubbing or tryhard divs can influence that overall rating. Same as "git gut" only after 8000 bad games, it's much harder as it doesn't posess a moving average filter.

Basically what I do to deceide if someone is a good player is to look for solo tier 10 games with a minimum of 100 games played. Still, you don't know when these games have been played, but basically it's the best we get. There is a russian stats site where you can apparently filter for time, but the language of our new overlords is beyond me.

 

I'm very sorry to say, that relevation is apparently very hard to accept - but you could also do with a lot of improvement.

[RazorBlade72]

1 hour ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Correct, the win rate is quite the crutch as seal clubbing or tryhard divs can influence that overall rating. Same as "git gut" only after 8000 bad games, it's much harder as it doesn't posess a moving average filter.

Basically what I do to deceide if someone is a good player is to look for solo tier 10 games with a minimum of 100 games played. Still, you don't know when these games have been played, but basically it's the best we get. There is a russian stats site where you can apparently filter for time, but the language of our new overlords is beyond me.

 

In your whole assessment if somebody is good or not, is not a factor how many games somebody played. That is where you go wrong. You simply can't expect a beginner to be as good as an experienced player. Good or bad is always relative to "something else". That "something else" should be comparable. Comparing a player that just started with players who have years of experience is not how you determine if somebody is good or not. However, often other factors are also taken into account to determine if somebody is good at something. There is a reason why e.g. in athletics we don't compare results of man with the results of woman. The same for age. You can't expect that a kid that is 10 years old beats an adult of 25 with running. I can understand why you use the solo gameplay but on the other hand I can't remember the last time when I played tier 10 solo and I know a few people that never play solo anymore. What you are looking at in that case are very old results. If I look at myself, I got the advice to go back to the lower tiers to master those and work my way up to tier 10 again. When I started out I rushed in 3 weeks to tier 10 and played the Shimakaze a lot. With the free XP I unlocked other tier 10 destroyers and started playing those. I missed the basics and was advised at this forum to go back to the lower tiers. You might call it seal clubbing but for me it is a way to becoming better. You checked out my results and if you did it the way you described then you must have missed any progression.

 

The funny thing is that the graph that you showed is telling in both situations the same thing. "Your team sucks". In one situation you say that it is the specific player that sucks because he has worse statistics then the rest of the team and in the other situation the team still sucks but then at least your rating is better then the team. To me it looks like the constant in this story is that the team sucks. In other words, it is very well possible that the team makes occasionally bad decisions to support team mates and that this conclusion can be drawn despite the statistics of the player who makes the claim.   

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

35 minutes ago, RazorBlade72 said:

In other words, it is very well possible that the team makes occasionally bad decisions to support team mates and that this conclusion can be drawn despite the statistics of the player who makes the claim.  

Yes. But ON AVERAGE he's still a very, very bad player. The player saying "my team sucks" is in one case the reason the team sucks, in the other case he made a correct assessment. ON AVERAGE.

 

Stop looking for excuses why you suck, GIT GUD! There are no wows classes, you aren't judged by how long you play the game, there is only "good player" and "bad player" or something in between.

 

 

[RazorBlade72]

31 minutes ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Yes. But ON AVERAGE he's still a very, very bad player. The player saying "my team sucks" is in one case the reason the team sucks, in the other case he made a correct assessment. ON AVERAGE.

 

Stop looking for excuses why you suck, GIT GUD! There are no wows classes, you aren't judged by how long you play the game, there is only "good player" and "bad player" or something in between.

 

 

So in your opinion all the female atletes are bad? And you are right that you don't take experience and other factors into account but the rest of the world does. Nobody expects the same results from a beginner as from an experienced player. If you do then that tells more about you then about the people that you judge. 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

 

 

You don't get the point. If he uses your bad excuses to explain why he is bad, he stays bad. You can of course try to tell him he is a pretty snowflake and he does all right, no matter what the bad man says, but let's face it, you're as bad as he is and all the advice in this thread is also for you.

 

Either make a self help group, explaining each other just how bad the team is, how unfair torpedos are or whatever - or man up and git gud.

[LukkaiCH]

Am 8.1.2023 um 03:36, RazorBlade72 sagte:

Lets assume somebody has 6 months math lessons and he has the highest scores of his class. You tell him that he sucks in math while I tell him that he is doing good. That is the difference. Is he better than other people with the same amount of experience? yes because he is the best in his class. Is he better then people who study math for many years, no of course not. If somebody is good or bad depends very much what you use as a reference.

Speaking of apples and apples: Are you still telling him he is doing good when he explains to you that he is now an expert? And that anything he gets wrong is others leading him astray or cheating and has nothing to do with him making mistakes or not knowing something, since he already knows all there is to know and does not make any serious mistakes at all. Or is that the moment where you feel a wake-up call and reality check are warranted?

Because if it's the former, you are not really doing him any favours. If he does not realise at that point that he may be a top dog on his level but still has a long way to go, he won't even start on that road. You can of course try to be nice and gentle about it. But he still needs to be told if he's to improve any further.

[arttuperkunas]

4 hours ago, LukkaiCH said:

Speaking of apples and apples: Are you still telling him he is doing good when he explains to you that he is now an expert? And that anything he gets wrong is others leading him astray or cheating and has nothing to do with him making mistakes or not knowing something, since he already knows all there is to know and does not make any serious mistakes at all. Or is that the moment where you feel a wake-up call and reality check are warranted?

Because if it's the former, you are not really doing him any favours. If he does not realise at that point that he may be a top dog on his level but still has a long way to go, he won't even start on that road. You can of course try to be nice and gentle about it. But he still needs to be told if he's to improve any further.

Do you think @RazorBlade72 is in any position to do him favours?

 

It's a case of the blind leading the blind.

[Seraphice]

On 12/23/2022 at 4:16 PM, Shaka_D said:

This is not intended to mean you're crap, but looking at your stats you're crap....this is how your sentence above reads......lool. Don't deny the thing you're doing  before you actually go do that thing you're denying you're going to do ;) Seems a little hypocritical?

On 12/23/2022 at 4:11 PM, Hirohito said:

This is not intended as stat shaming, but looking at your stats, it's no wonder you struggle playing in Silver.

You should be playing in Bronze with those, and it would probably save both yourself and possibly your teammates a bunch of frustration, as well as saved time (as you would win slightly more).

 

There's no shame farming Bronze. 

In all fairness, the comment was not meant in a negative way. I understand that stat-shaming is not allowed and not appreciated, but using a person's skill level to reason a certain way in a polite manner should be OK here. It's a bit of a grey area, but there was no harm intended as far as I see.

On 12/23/2022 at 5:14 PM, tocqueville8 said:

 

For a second there I thought you were talking about the Nueve's actual history 

Let's not dive too deep into this topic here.

 

 

[Seraphice]

Also, for everyone else in this thread. I understand you are just trying to help him, but I also understand that it can be seen as doing so in a bit of an aggressive manner.

I know it's not your intention @Karkong_the_Impaler to ridicule him, but try to keep things calm is all I ask, even if your points are valid.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

@CSS_modding_1

 

from here:

 

33 minutes ago, CSS_modding_1 said:

so now u have comments too on the team play 

wen i sad it i am a idiot and dont now how to play 

and this is exactly wat i ment 

(Then add BBs who rather sail to the A line, Cruisers who feinted at supporting but then instead proceed to ineffectually hide behind islands.)

and u say im a bad player and it has nothing to do with teams who play bad 

its my foult i have to hide too behind islands 

wen i dont i get killed by a cruising bb 

so wen i say i want to make an effort to  win and try to cap becouse no one try

suddenly im bad 

sure

 

 

You are not suddenly bad. Where on this curve do you see yourself?

 

 

Honestly, It's a bit like talking to a wall. You may choose to believe you ain't bad, it's the same to me - people creating their own, alternative truths and realities are all the rage currently, after all - but if you do, there is little anyone can do to help you.

I'm out...

 

 

 

[lameoll]

On 12/27/2022 at 1:22 PM, Hirohito said:

Funny how poor spelling seems to go hand in hand with poor performance as well.

HEY i Doe not Lik whure Thas is GoEing! 

 

 

[CSS_modding_1]

57 minutes ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

@CSS_modding_1

 

from here:

 

 

 

You are not suddenly bad. Where on this curve do you see yourself?

 

 

Honestly, It's a bit like talking to a wall. You may choose to believe you ain't bad, it's the same to me - people creating their own, alternative truths and realities are all the rage currently, after all - but if you do, there is little anyone can do to help you.

I'm out...

 

 

 

yea sure u were an ace and a top player in a couple of monts 

right 

so u believeu are a top ace 

good luck with ur life then 

 

[Ymustihaveaname]

5 hours ago, CSS_modding_1 said:

yea sure u were an ace and a top player in a couple of monts 

right 

so u believeu are a top ace 

good luck with ur life then 

The point is very few of us really are aces, Im not, he might not be, and 90+ if not 99% of the player base are not..... The first thing to do is accept that and think why (of the things you can control, and you can't ask WG for better MM except by going for a coffee) you are falling and solving them? IE do I need to play a different ship or do I need to play differently?

 

I was getting very stuck, I'm also in silver and was stuck for last few sprints not getting anywhere not playing much, the point is you need to stop or change something that you can change or just chill and have a break or play a different mode and come back?

 

Yesterday I was having terrible luck, and it was all my team's "fault" and lost all my games, today I won every game, and it felt amazing, and it's obviously all on me... but the reality is that it was somewhere in the middle and if I had been less frustrated yesterday I might have done better and helped some of the weak teams win, and today I was carried past some mistakes. (and 1 detonation right at the start of a game!)