It’s Xmas so here’s a dafty.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

1 minute ago, lovelacebeer said:

As I understand it, it’s because the early submarines were so small and only had a single deck inside they were classed as boats, and whilst Subs have grown considerably larger Submariners today still very proudly refer to their vessels as boats. 

 

I'm a bit worried, if they are boats are the crew boaters or seamen? Could potentially ruin a perfectly good joke...

[lafeel]

13 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

As I understand it, it’s because the early submarines were so small and only had a single deck inside they were classed as boats, and whilst Subs have grown considerably larger Submariners today still very proudly refer to their vessels as boats. 

Well you have seen how tiny those early subs were right? Even a small SSN is huge by comparison.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

Apart from the Type XXI submarines, all WWII and earlier submarines were basically submergeable torpedo boats.

40 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

If we want to get really technical she’s a boat not a ship 

Just calling them boats is an english quirk. Other languages do make this distinction.

[lovelacebeer]

2 hours ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Apart from the Type XXI submarines, all WWII and earlier submarines were basically submergeable torpedo boats.

 

Just calling them boats is an english quirk. Other languages do make this distinction.

 

Its a good thing we are undertaking this conversation in English then isn’t it old chap.

 

Although you are semi correct not all languages call submarines boat,  but it’s not just the English language that does this quirk.

[lovelacebeer]

3 hours ago, lafeel said:

Well you have seen how tiny those early subs were right? Even a small SSN is huge by comparison.

 

Oh I have been inside HMS Holland 1 several times and even with most of the insides removed it’s still extremely cramped. Well worth a visit though but I’m a massive fan of submarine warfare/ history. 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Hey, it's Xmas so here's Merry Christmas!

 

 

 

[LukkaiCH]

Vor 8 Stunden, Karkong_the_Impaler sagte:

Apart from the Type XXI submarines, all WWII and earlier submarines were basically submergeable torpedo boats.

 

Just calling them boats is an english quirk. Other languages do make this distinction.

I mean, the complete German term for them is Unterseeboot. Literal translation being submarine boat.

[lafeel]

23 minutes ago, LukkaiCH said:

I mean, the complete German term for them is Unterseeboot. Literal translation being submarine boat.

Underseaboat if you want to be technical.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Had a look at what submarine is in Japanese, sensuikan. Sen 'submerge', sui 'water' and kan 'warship'. Now... technically you could say that is a ship because this kan is the same as kan in gunkan, but I think 'vessel' would be a more accurate translation. An underwater vessel.

[lafeel]

12 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Had a look at what submarine is in Japanese, sensuikan. Sen 'submerge', sui 'water' and kan 'warship'. Now... technically you could say that is a ship because this kan is the same as kan in gunkan, but I think 'vessel' would be a more accurate translation. An underwater vessel.

Japanese tends to be a very logical language when it comes to terms, so it's hardly surprising.

[LukkaiCH]

Vor 29 Minuten, lafeel sagte:

Underseaboat if you want to be technical.

Though that goes into potato-potato territory.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

9 hours ago, LukkaiCH said:

I mean, the complete German term for them is Unterseeboot. Literal translation being submarine boat.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-Boot

 

Quote

Moderne große U-Boote, die eine Masse von bis zu 26.000 Tonnen haben können, werden auch U-Schiffe genannt.

Also what I didn't know, U-Boats are strictly military.

 

 

 

But the issue is solved thanks to WG https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:U-2501

 

 

Besides, it's not world of warboats anyway...

 

 

[lovelacebeer]

10 hours ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Had a look at what submarine is in Japanese, sensuikan. Sen 'submerge', sui 'water' and kan 'warship'. Now... technically you could say that is a ship because this kan is the same as kan in gunkan, but I think 'vessel' would be a more accurate translation. An underwater vessel.

Thats correct for formal Japanese, but when I visited Yokosuka I was surprised to find in casual conversation they also call them boats, although thinking about it I shouldn’t have been that surprised given the Japanese copied a lot from Royal Navy in the early days. 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

13 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

Thats correct for formal Japanese, but when I visited Yokosuka I was surprised to find in casual conversation they also call them boats, although thinking about it I shouldn’t have been that surprised given the Japanese copied a lot from Royal Navy in the early days. 

 

Japan and Britain becoming allies in 1902 explains a lot of that. Some of the IJN back in the day were British built, including the last British built dreadnaught in existance, the Mikasa.

[Bland_42]

30 minuti fa, Karasu_Hidesuke ha scritto:

 

Japan and Britain becoming allies in 1902 explains a lot of that. Some of the IJN back in the day were British built, including the last British built dreadnaught in existance, the Mikasa.

I don't like to correct people... but you know that Mikasa is a pre-dreadnought, right?

However also the Kongo was british-built.

[lovelacebeer]

49 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Japan and Britain becoming allies in 1902 explains a lot of that. Some of the IJN back in the day were British built, including the last British built dreadnaught in existance, the Mikasa.

If you ever get the chance to go she’s well worth a visit beautiful pre dreadnought.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

51 minutes ago, Bland_42 said:

I don't like to correct people... but you know that Mikasa is a pre-dreadnought, right?

However also the Kongo was british-built.

 

36 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

If you ever get the chance to go she’s well worth a visit beautiful pre dreadnought.

 

I stand duly corrected, thank you. I was struggling for what to call her, apparently the description goes as 'pre-dreadnaught battleship', so that makes it most proper to call the Mikasa the last surviving British built battleship.

 

Later in the century, the relations between the Japanese and the British got considerably less smoochy. In the early 20s, Lord William Sempill had a role to play in the development of Japan's naval air power.

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/10/18/national/history/sempill-mission-anniversary/

 

He's also been credited with the role of an alleged Japanese spy who passed classified information to the Japanese though his contacts. However, this view has quite recently been challenged by some new research on the topic.

 

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20221205/p2g/00m/0in/037000c

 

 

 

[LukkaiCH]

Vor 9 Stunden, Karkong_the_Impaler sagte:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-Boot

 

Also what I didn't know, U-Boats are strictly military.

 

 

 

But the issue is solved thanks to WG https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:U-2501

 

 

Besides, it's not world of warboats anyway...

 

 

Shush! Or you'll soon be sailing in this:

[LiveWire___]

On 12/25/2022 at 11:31 AM, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

 

I stand duly corrected, thank you. I was struggling for what to call her, apparently the description goes as 'pre-dreadnaught battleship', so that makes it most proper to call the Mikasa the last surviving British built battleship.

 

Later in the century, the relations between the Japanese and the British got considerably less smoochy. In the early 20s, Lord William Sempill had a role to play in the development of Japan's naval air power.

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/10/18/national/history/sempill-mission-anniversary/

 

He's also been credited with the role of an alleged Japanese spy who passed classified information to the Japanese though his contacts. However, this view has quite recently been challenged by some new research on the topic.

 

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20221205/p2g/00m/0in/037000c

 

 

 

 

She was built in Barrow-In-Furness, UK. There's even a street there named after her.

 

Mikasa Street.

 

It's funny to think that the street has stood for as long as the ship has existed.

 

The people who have lived there since 1900 when she was built. The things they've done, times they've had. The people living all over the world now who were born there, or are related to someone who was. 

 

All while Mikasa was doing its thing, with Heihachiro Togo in command.

 

It's a little sad for me that ship and town will never see one another again, the ship still being in Japan and encased in concrete.

 

Can you imagine how poignant it would be for the Mikasa to sail back in to Barrow harbour, some 122 years after leaving? 

 

Some wistful typing from me there. But it's nearly lunchtime and I've drank a lot of sherry.