Battle duration in co-op

[Iznogood_DK]

Ahoy captains,

 

Have anyone noticed, that co-op games are over in no time lately? They used to last app. 7 minutes, but are now often over in less than 4-5 minutes? Even 7 minutes is too short in my opinion, indicating that co-op is too easy.

I hope WG will pay attention to co-op game mode, making it a bit more challenging and not only suited for fast ships with low reload time and torp boats.

 

(unfortunatelly, random isn't an option for me, as I find that game mode too toxic).

 

todays games in co-op so far

t10
3:59
4:10
3:49
3:46
3:34

 

t9
4:17
4:54
4:28

[Panocek]

Coop games always were about outrunning teammates in damage, nothing changed in that regard.

 

Even more so in Snowflake season, when people just want to get their certificates.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

21 minutes ago, Iznogood_DK said:

Have anyone noticed, that co-op games are over in no time lately? They used to last app. 7 minutes, but are now often over in less than 4-5 minutes? Even 7 minutes is too short in my opinion, indicating that co-op is too easy.

At the moment less incompetent players are flooding coop to farm snowflakes. It could be seasonal.

 

21 minutes ago, Iznogood_DK said:

(unfortunatelly, random isn't an option for me, as I find that game mode too toxic).

You can turn off the chat entirely, you know?

[KillStealBoss]

They were always short. Unless it's late and you got bots in your team as well. 

[Iznogood_DK]

Thanks for your replies. Yes, I also guessed, that it could be caused by snowflake harvesting. I don't know if they're incompetent, as they make games shorter, not longer. That must show some skill?

 

Yes, chat can be turned off, but that would prevent me from getting/giving information from/to teammates in game. The chat isn't the problem, the toxic players are however.

[KillStealBoss]

54 minutes ago, Iznogood_DK said:

the toxic players are however.

Toxic? Because they want to farm snowflakes in coop? 

[DDsOnly]

Using the poor excuse of "people are 2 toxic" is just another way of saying that you suck at this game

[NewHorizons_1]

1 hour ago, Iznogood_DK said:

I don't know if they're incompetent, as they make games shorter, not longer. That must show some skill?

The double negative strikes again!

Less incompetent ≈ more competent.

 

I've not noticed a recent reduction in co-op match duration as sub 4 minute games have been a thing for a while.

Fine if your in a fast and/or high DPM ship.

Not so much fun for slow ships like Colorado or those with a long reload like Italian BBs or US battlesnails.

WG have tweaked the bot AI over the last year or so, with mainly positive results.

Although there are still improvements that could be made.

Eg, like not clearing off to one side of the map so that a ¹/₃rd of the team has nothing to shoot at.

 

 

[LukkaiCH]

As a coop main I can't say I really noticed any difference. I'm very much used to the vast majority of battles being over before the five minute mark.

 

Longer matches mostly happen in the rim hours when you have two or three human teammates only.

[Iznogood_DK]

.

[hgbn_dk]

A pattern I observed during my battles in co-op the higher the tier are. the faster they are done. Think most people in higher tiers are more aggressive plus the range of various weapons is longer.

Must admit I find the low-mid tier the most enjoyable. It reminds me of the old days in random and its not unusual with matches with 4 or more kills.

[TakeshiSushi]

As other said it is most likely seasonal due to snowflakes. But coop is and always was fast and favoured high speed, hight DPM ships. Feels just about right and I hope it stays that way.

If you are looking for something more challenging and little less toxic than random/ranked. Try operations.

[Iznogood_DK]

1 hour ago, DDsOnly said:

Using the poor excuse of "people are 2 toxic" is just another way of saying that you suck at this game

I do suck at this game, not pretending otherwise? ... My nickname doesn't lie ;)

 But does that mean that I'm not allowed to play Randoms without being called names?

 

A game in for enjoyment, and that was what I had hoped to do in Randoms until I ran into people trying to take possession of the game, deciding who could play it. Giving a -1 is one thing, telling me to uninstall the game, that I should die and other "classy" things is not OK

[Iznogood_DK]

2 hours ago, KillStealBoss said:

Toxic? Because they want to farm snowflakes in coop? 

No, the chat in Randoms is toxic. Toxity in co-op is more sparse

[Iznogood_DK]

2 minutes ago, hgbn_dk said:

A pattern I observed during my battles in co-op the higher the tier are. the faster they are done. Think most people in higher tiers are more aggressive plus the range of various weapons is longer.

Must admit I find the low-mid tier the most enjoyable. It reminds me of the old days in random and its not unusual with matches with 4 or more kills.

I noticed the same, playing t8-10 today. In t9-10, games were over in around 4 minutes, while t8 games ended after app- 5 minutes.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

3 hours ago, Iznogood_DK said:

I don't know if they're incompetent, as they make games shorter, not longer. That must show some skill?

Basically coop players can roll their face on the keyboard and still win the game - and many do.

I got stuck in a coop match yesterday because three coop mains couldn't kill a single Gneisenau, one circled around an island keeping him on the other side, the Aki smoked up and tried to shatter ap grenades against his belt and the third got himself killed. Alone driving across the map to mop up takes ages.

I can believe that games are shorter at the moment. I fail to see the disadvantage. They're short when needed and not too hard when only coop mains play.

[Iznogood_DK]

4 minutes ago, TakeshiSushi said:

If you are looking for something more challenging and little less toxic than random/ranked. Try operations.

I enjoy operations, but there aren't enough operations tp make the game long lasting, only playing operations.

My personal hope is to get a new game mode combining co-op setup, but with the bots from Operations, reducing yolo'ing.

[NewHorizons_1]

14 minutes ago, Iznogood_DK said:

My personal hope is to get a new game mode combining co-op setup, but with the bots from Operations, reducing yolo'ing.

Apparently, that was tried some time ago ... and the fallout was substantial.

Co-op player's win rates went down from high 90s to 60 or 70 percent, IIRC.

But apparently the most critical were the PvP players that temporarily switched to co-op to blast through mission directives and "get them out of the way".

Because the bots were more of a challenge, people had to play smarter (ie not yolo) thus the match lasted longer hence you could no longer just use "co-op to blast through missions" any more.

 

Personally, for T8 upwards, I'd like the bots to be more of a challenge.

WG could even start by fully upgrading tech tree ships and equipping them with a full set of modules and a 21pt captain.

[TakeshiSushi]

2 minutes ago, Iznogood_DK said:

I enjoy operations, but there aren't enough operations tp make the game long lasting, only playing operations.

My personal hope is to get a new game mode combining co-op setup, but with the bots from Operations, reducing yolo'ing.

Not gona happen. Unless you can come up with some way how WG can make money out of it without making it massively unpopular. New game modes cost developement time. And they already tried to put operations bots to coop. As far is I heard It was quite a spectacular failure. So they turned it back.

[Iznogood_DK]

10 minutes ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

I fail to see the disadvantage. They're short when needed and not too hard when only coop mains play.

Well, I'm a co-op main and I find it too easy (even though I from time to time find me in that situation you mention ;) ). I would also love a game mode where the approach isn't to yolo, but playing more cautiously, learning to position, etc and still being able to collect rewards (so training room isn't the solution either). Right now, I just rush and shoot at anything that moves, in order to get as many kills as possible in 4 minutes. I more or less stopped playing BBs in co-op, as I only get to shoot a few salvos before the game is over.

 

[gms763]

My main issue with Co-Op is recent changes to AI mean in quite a few games most BOT ships sail to same part of map - either to the middle or one side. If you guess wrong you score very little damage. By time you get to right part of map where the bots are the game is almost over.

 

The other grip is when not enough players  to make a team the MM puts bot CVs and subs in. Yesterday I had a Co-Op game with not enough players, even though there were no DDs the MM added a bot CV and 2 bot subs on the player side to make up numbers.

[Iznogood_DK]

11 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

Apparently, that was tried some time ago ... and the fallout was substantial.

Co-op player's win rates went down from high 90s to 60 or 70 percent, IIRC.

But apparently the most critical were the PvP players that temporarily switched to co-op to blast through mission directives and "get them out of the way".

Because the bots were more of a challenge, people had to play smarter (ie not yolo) thus the match lasted longer hence you could no longer just use "co-op to blast through missions" any more.

 

Personally, for T8 upwards, I'd like the bots to be more of a challenge.

WG could even start by fully upgrading tech tree ships and equipping them with a full set of modules and a 21pt captain.

Good answer 

1. I'd love a wr drop from 98 to 70, if caused by better bots and more challenging games.

2. I understand the necessity to have a co-op mode for players who just need to have a relaxing and speedy experience (and for new players in low tiers). I was more thinking of a co-op 2 game mode, as the mode you mentioned (too bad I didn't experience that). The reward, to make this game mode more attractive, could be better bonuses that the ones in co-op, but worse than the ones on Randoms.

[Iznogood_DK]

1 minute ago, gms763 said:

My main issue with Co-Op is recent changes to AI mean in quite a few games most BOT ships sail to same part of map - either to the middle or one side. If you guess wrong you score very little damage. By time you get to right part of map where the bots are the game is almost over.

I totally agree. THis is the reason why I hate 2 brothers map. I always choose the wrong side :D

[NewHorizons_1]

13 minutes ago, gms763 said:

My main issue with Co-Op is recent changes to AI mean in quite a few games most BOT ships sail to same part of map - either to the middle or one side. If you guess wrong you score very little damage. By time you get to right part of map where the bots are the game is almost over.

Agreed. Though that used to happen a while ago. It just seems a bit more frequent now.

13 minutes ago, gms763 said:

The other grip is when not enough players  to make a team the MM puts bot CVs and subs in. Yesterday I had a Co-Op game with not enough players, even though there were no DDs the MM added a bot CV and 2 bot subs on the player side to make up numbers.

AGREED!

 

Even worse, when you're in a T9, or a DD, and it throws in T11 CVs.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

4 hours ago, Iznogood_DK said:

Ahoy captains,

 

Have anyone noticed, that co-op games are over in no time lately? They used to last app. 7 minutes, but are now often over in less than 4-5 minutes? Even 7 minutes is too short in my opinion, indicating that co-op is too easy.

I hope WG will pay attention to co-op game mode, making it a bit more challenging and not only suited for fast ships with low reload time and torp boats.

 

(unfortunatelly, random isn't an option for me, as I find that game mode too toxic).

 

todays games in co-op so far

t10
3:59
4:10
3:49
3:46
3:34

 

t9
4:17
4:54
4:28

 

I have statistics for almost all my past years... here is the breakdown...

 

2018.

240 battles with Average length of 7:32

 

2019.

1.884 battles with Average length of 6:03

 

2020.

3.801 battles with Average length of 5:40

 

2021.

3.672 battles with Average length of 5:39

 

2022.

2.174 battles with Average length of 5:13

 

 

As you can see I switched to CoOp in 2019. and never looked back... I don't play Randoms at all... just Brawl, Ranked, Operations and CoOp...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"