Impacts are getting near WG

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

https://www.ign.com/articles/epic-games-fine-ftc

 

Not a big fan of the US law system, but for this kind of slapping down a scummy company, it's a good thing indeed. Let's see if that has some influence on the dark patterns used by WG, say, with the loot box mechanics for the weak willed and susceptible.

 

 

[ItsEyeJasper]

I am pretty sure WG dont "Trick" you in the same manner. The only thing i think you put in the same boat is the Automatic resupply of Signals  and camos at the time using Doubloons, but i am sure they already addressed these issues.  Now every purchase you make in armory using Doubloons you have to consent. there fore i think WG are covered here.

 

Really WG scummy tactics was the shortlisting in lootboxes and droprates. Those have since bee addressed.

 

You being weak willed is your own issue.

 

[SV_Kompresor]

32 minutes ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Let's see if that has some influence on the dark patterns used by WG, say, with the loot box mechanics for the weak willed and susceptible.

Such as?

 

The article has nothing to do with lootbox mechanics.

[LukkaiCH]

Vor 14 Stunden, Karkong_the_Impaler sagte:

https://www.ign.com/articles/epic-games-fine-ftc

 

Not a big fan of the US law system, but for this kind of slapping down a scummy company, it's a good thing indeed. Let's see if that has some influence on the dark patterns used by WG, say, with the loot box mechanics for the weak willed and susceptible.

Don't know how WG is with collecting information about their playerbase. But any other points Epic has been fined on there are things WG is actually doing right. So if anything, they'd probably feel confirmed in their course.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

The main issue is that dark patterns are slowly getting under scrutiny and regarded as what they are - scummy practice. Especially the insidious gacha lootboxes are basically abuse of the weak and simple minded of our society, gambling is highly regulated for a reason.

[KhorneFlake]

Who cares?

WG doing nothing illegal here

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

41 minutes ago, KhorneFlake said:

Who cares?

WG doing nothing illegal here

Depends on the country you live in. Basically it breaks down to gambling.

And morally questionable? Everywhere.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

We know the lootbox mechanic is by its very nature a form of gambling. Even when you know the odds, you essentially take a gamble. Where it might differ from actual gambling is return value. Typically, when you lose in gambling you lose your money and gain nothing in return. In this sense, buying a lootbox is more like buying a raffle ticket. Having said that, even that can cause just as much problems, depending on how much money is actually involved and if it encourages and/or outright promotes overspending.

[TheAlba2014]

5 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

We know the lootbox mechanic is by its very nature a form of gambling. Even when you know the odds, you essentially take a gamble. Where it might differ from actual gambling is return value. Typically, when you lose in gambling you lose your money and gain nothing in return. In this sense, buying a lootbox is more like buying a raffle ticket. Having said that, even that can cause just as much problems, depending on how much money is actually involved and if it encourages and/or outright promotes overspending.

The issue I see with the "something for your money" value proposition given as a reason why it's "relatively" Ok is that in your other examples what you obtain if successful are goods with a known and accepted market value i.e. cash or some other physical good.

 

In this case WG are their very own market monopoly and set the value of their digital goods, whether that is a fair price is only for them to say. In the wider world, most of the time not so much. That, in combination with the gambling, I think has to be controlled to protect vulnerable people being exploited.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

38 minutes ago, TheAlba2014 said:

The issue I see with the "something for your money" value proposition given as a reason why it's "relatively" Ok is that in your other examples what you obtain if successful are goods with a known and accepted market value i.e. cash or some other physical good.

 

In this case WG are their very own market monopoly and set the value of their digital goods, whether that is a fair price is only for them to say. In the wider world, most of the time not so much. That, in combination with the gambling, I think has to be controlled to protect vulnerable people being exploited.

 

True. The value can only be observed when compared to the regular price of the items WG is charging for them. For instance, you have a chance to get a ship at a considerable lower price than what you'd have to pay with direct purchase. However, you are more likely to get something else than that ship. In the past, I think even the cheapest item that might drop was still more valuable at regular price than what you were paying for the lootbox. Subjective value, of course, is something else.

[LukkaiCH]

Vor 2 Stunden, Karkong_the_Impaler sagte:

Depends on the country you live in. Basically it breaks down to gambling.

Which is why WG is not selling any lootboxes in countries forbidding them. Belgium, to name an example.

 

You can think about their practices whatever you want. But legally speaking, they are on the safe side here.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

This discussion has been had so often already. Its always the same answer though and probably the only one which produces results.

You have to fight the issue by the roots not try to break a small twig like WG off the massive tree of predatory monetization.

 

Yes you are affected here right now and probably its the only game you currently play that might do what WG is doing but that doesn't mean that you should try to change WG or try to regulate WG. You have to work towards regulating the monetization that is used by many more in even worse ways than what WG is doing. That can only be done by government intervention and that is why it is so damn difficult to get this under control. Every company that produces endless digital goods that doesn't use this monetization scheme is literally losing money, whoever wants to stay morally grounded is going to make losses. Donald Trump just recently introduced NFTs (this isn't political as im talking about his goods and trade) and they all sold out, it was more than 40m dollars he made on people who are easy to scam. Why not do it if its so easy?

Diablo Immortal made as much money in the first week with their gambling schemes as WG makes in half a year probably. If WG didn't do what they do they would make maybe 1/10 of the money they make right  now. 

[lup3s]

4 minutes ago, AtaIante said:

That can only be done by government intervention and that is why it is so damn difficult to get this under control.

 

Tbh, if a messed up government system like the Belgian one can put a law on these lootboxes/in-game gambling, others should be able to as well 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 minute ago, lup3s said:

 

Tbh, if a messed up government system like the Belgian one can put a law on these lootboxes/in-game gambling, others should be able to as well 

Yea I agree. But getting their attention to it is hard

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

59 minutes ago, AtaIante said:

You have to fight the issue by the roots not try to break a small twig like WG off the massive tree of predatory monetization.

This is the only thing where I disagree. I believe no one is less scummy because he is only earing 1/10th through these gacha mechanics.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

15 minutes ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

This is the only thing where I disagree. I believe no one is less scummy because he is only earing 1/10th through these gacha mechanics.

I agree with you and thats not what I'm saying

Of course  WG should also be affected and maybe even punished. But my point is that this should be the secondary goal. It will happen by fulfilling the main goal which is to put a stop to the processes that allow sich monetization to take place in the first place and with that you will swat the whole bunch at once and give companies good reasons not to go down this route anymore. At the moment there are to many good reasons to go down the route. If that means offending people like you so what? There are 10 others who pay if you dont.

[MaxxyNL]

All the whining/ranting about crates/lootboxes being illegal/scummy/gambling. 

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy crates/boxes.

Simple 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

22 minutes ago, MaxxyNL said:

All the whining/ranting about crates/lootboxes being illegal/scummy/gambling. 

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy crates/boxes.

Simple 

if the item you want is only available through boxes and you have to spend money based on your luck/gambling then there is a problem. 

The times im which you could buy what you wanted directly for a set price are slowly being over 

[mdjmcnally]

Then the problem is with the person that is doing the buying.

nobody FORCEs you to buy the containers to try and obtain those ships.

as is said an item you WANT, not an item you NEED to be able to play the game.

 

quite frankly most of the ships that locked away behind the containers are not as good as they used to be, and they won’t magically transform a players winrate.

power creep has affected them

 

if people really don’t like it then vote with your feet and wallet and stop playing the game full stop.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

1 hour ago, mdjmcnally said:

Then the problem is with the person that is doing the buying.

I propose we send six year olds back to the coal mines, the problem is with the children doing the work. Seriously?

 

Yes, the problem is always with the stupid and the weak letting themselves be exploited. This is why the rest of the society has to protect them. These dark patterns are not an issue for me, I'm just offended on behalf of those who don't even realize they're being manipulated and fleeced.

[KhorneFlake]

44 minutes ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

I propose we send six year olds back to the coal mines, the problem is with the children doing the work. Seriously?

 

Yes, the problem is always with the stupid and the weak letting themselves be exploited. This is why the rest of the society has to protect them. These dark patterns are not an issue for me, I'm just offended on behalf of those who don't even realize they're being manipulated and fleeced.

LoL, I don't need to protect anyone who is willing to gamble. Why would I even care?

Casino or lottery is gambling, too, so I guess we have to "protect" these people either?

Pathetic chatter...

[Dutchy_2019]

2 hours ago, mdjmcnally said:

Then the problem is with the person that is doing the buying.

nobody FORCEs you to buy the containers to try and obtain those ships.

as is said an item you WANT, not an item you NEED to be able to play the game.

 

quite frankly most of the ships that locked away behind the containers are not as good as they used to be, and they won’t magically transform a players winrate.

power creep has affected them

 

if people really don’t like it then vote with your feet and wallet and stop playing the game full stop.

 

Funny, 

 

If things were so simple, then all these companies spending billions of money on marketing, as well as the many marketing courses, marketing-psycho-analytics research and such would be a massive waste of money, and the people involved would be unemployed. Considering the money involved in those, things are far from as black and white as you seem to suggest they are. IMHO - just reading your statement, you are mostly wrong and using a massivel logical fallacy.

[MaxxyNL]

2 hours ago, AtaIante said:

if the item you want is only available through boxes and you have to spend money based on your luck/gambling then there is a problem. 

 

I also want a Ferrari, not gonna happen. 

[MoveZig]

I don't buy surprise mechanics, and I don't think anyone should be doing so either. I don't think Big Daddy Government should make it illegal to sell them, because that infantilizes adults who should be allowed to make their own purchasing decisions.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

19 minutes ago, KhorneFlake said:

LoL, I don't need to protect anyone who is willing to gamble. Why would I even care?

Casino or lottery is gambling, too, so I guess we have to "protect" these people either?

Pathetic chatter...