Steel and coal: what to get?

[Peroidas]

What ships you suggest as first steel ship? I was considering Bourgogne, Incomparable and Ragnar, but I am open to suggestions. I am searching for a fun and if possible easy to use ship as I am playing way less often recently.

 

I am also looking for a fun coal ship from tier X. So far I have Marceau and Thunderer and and I really like both. 

[K82J]

I'd say maybe Napoli ? Fast, tanky, stealthy, good guns , has torps, accurate SAP secondary, full speed smoke if needed to get away or yolo. Only missing hydro.

 

My first steel was the Stalin, didnt regretted it so far.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

Napoli is fun and forgiving. I like Ragnar, but it is a workhorse Bourgonge seems like a fun bote to most but  I dont have it.

[tocqueville8]

I almost never play my Ragnar: she's strong, for sure, but kind of boring.

 

Incomparable is the opposite: inconsistent, but absolutely bonkers in some games.

 

I'm torn between FDR, Stalingrad and Burger with the current coupon: the first was built irl but she seems to be mostly a troll damage farmer; the second has the Soviet bias reputation but I already have four Tier 10 USSR cruisers...which leaves good ole Bourgogne.

[Txufos]

I have Bourgogne and Incomparable.

 

Fun, reliable, easy to use = Bourgogne

 

Fun, inconsistent, cannot play it in ranked or whenever there is a CV = Incomparable.

[Peroidas]

30 minutes ago, Txufos said:

I have Bourgogne and Incomparable.

 

Fun, reliable, easy to use = Bourgogne

 

Fun, inconsistent, cannot play it in ranked or whenever there is a CV = Incomparable.

Do you have JB? How does it compare to Bourgogne?

 

Also how do Ragnar compare to Groningen (seems closest in capability for those available in other currencies)

[Txufos]

I have Groningen but don't have Ragnar, so cannot answer this question.

 

I do have Jean Bart. Bourgogne is quite better!  (My favourite BB).

[tocqueville8]

38 minutes ago, Peroidas said:

Also how do Ragnar compare to Groningen (seems closest in capability for those available in other currencies)

 

Very different: one has US smoke and hydro, the other has radar, heal, speed boost, HE penetration against cruisers and armor to shatter DD HE.

 

They can both hunt DDs under the right circumstances, but in general Ragnar has to make the most of her hp, while Groningen has to make the most of her smokescreens.

[KillStealBoss]

1 hour ago, tocqueville8 said:

 

 

I'm torn between FDR, Stalingrad and Burger with the current coupon: the first was built irl but she seems to be mostly a troll damage farmer; the second has the Soviet bias reputation but I already have four Tier 10 USSR cruisers...which leaves good ole Bourgogne.

Take the Burger it's the most fun of those. 

[LukkaiCH]

I feel the need to mention Mecklenburg for steel. That ship can be a lot of fun.

 

And Napoli seems a good choice for you for coal ships.

[Ehern]

6 hours ago, Peroidas said:

Do you have JB? How does it compare to Bourgogne?

 

Also how do Ragnar compare to Groningen (seems closest in capability for those available in other currencies)

 

JB is more static. Bourgogne is on perma tour.

[Northern_Nightowl]

Vor 2 Stunden, Peroidas sagte:

Do you have JB? How does it compare to Bourgogne?

I have both of them, actually using and training the same commander on both ships. I bought the Bourgogne as my first steel vessel, as no other option attracted me sufficiently, especially due to their lack of survivability and durability.

After I read information about the Bourgogne on the WoWS wiki and in some relevant forum threads here, I decided for myself that I should play this ship as if it were a cruiser. That means zooming around the map (while staying at 16km to 23km distance from the visible foes); I'm using HE shells quite a lot. While you have a nearly decent stash of HP and hence an already BB-like grade of survivability, you're not durable enough to withstand a continued hammering by something like a Montana, Yamato, Kremlin or a Großer Kurfürst (the latter especially when it's close enough to alleviate its bad main gunnery patterns). Using HE to whittle a foe down with fire and destroyed secondary artillery and AA mounts and using your speed (that can be boosted), only switching to AP for flashing broadsides (with a handy reload booster for this) works quite well. Remember: 38cm guns may lack a bit in AP power at T10, but 38cm shells filled with high explosives carry a decent fire setting power downrange. And you have at least 8 of them available at your front, 12 in total.

Before I got my own Jean Bart (this year's black version), I observed other players using it. That was mostly a bowtanking  situation and a jigging back-and-forth with motorboost on. Quite difficult to deal with when you were against it, as you'll need a flanking manoeuvre for better damage numbers. A swift DD or a boosted Georgia could pull this off, but otherwise, it's a battle of who's suffering attrition quicker to determine the winner of the engagement.

Maybe, I'm not having enough map knowledge, as this rather static style didn't work for me. So, I began to move my Jean Bart a bit more around in battles, trying to play the way I'm doing with my Bourgogne, as it is similarly equipped (save for the abysmally short ranged - 5km - and lowly loaded ASW airstrike on JB). I'm performing better now, even if I'm switching to bowtanking when it looks like the sensible thing to do.

A subjective comparison would yield that the Bourgogne feels more well-rounded and a bit more powerful for me, but you can use both ships similarly. I do also still have a strong liking for the Jean Bart and the other front-gunned Frenchy BB (Dunkerque, Strasbourg, Richelieu) having all of them in port.

You can't IMHO get wrong with a Bourgogne.

 

As for T10 coal vessel, I can't provide any decent opinion or advice. While I have a Großer Kurfürst and a Napoli, both of them are actual port queens. I'm in no way a decent cruiser player and the lack of hydro or any other vision control tool among the Italians is a showstopper. And this damned German steel brick is only good to get barbecued or pounded as any heavyweight boxer that missed the age and moment of retirement and climbs back into a ring will get.

 

Regards, Nightowl

 

 

 

[Fediuld]

9 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

I almost never play my Ragnar: she's strong, for sure, but kind of boring.

 

Incomparable is the opposite: inconsistent, but absolutely bonkers in some games.

 

I'm torn between FDR, Stalingrad and Burger with the current coupon: the first was built irl but she seems to be mostly a troll damage farmer; the second has the Soviet bias reputation but I already have four Tier 10 USSR cruisers...which leaves good ole Bourgogne.

Keep away from FDR until you understand how it plays. It is more suitable for ranked but not random. Get another steel ship, except if you know what you get into. 

 

Got FDR two weeks ago, alongside Malta. While Malta is a blast, an upgrade to Atrocious, and straight away you get comfortable with it, cannot say the same about FDR. It is requiring to do a lot of battles to get used to it.

• Cannot dual drop on same target quickly,
• Airplanes are slow. If you play FDR and next battle Richthofen or Max, the latter two feel like they have jet airplanes at almost twice the speed! Hell even Shokaku and Malta feel faster. 
• Airplanes casualties are sky high if you attack ship cluster
• Cannot save airplanes by using half wings
• Even with Halsey the airplane generation is worse than that of Nakhimov while you have 5+ times the casualties.
• The airplane reload between drops which is almost half minute!!! Cannot use boom & zoom tactics. 
• Only target are sluggish loner battleships and the enemy carrier to do damage.
• Cannot deal with DDs and the majority of the cruisers. 
• Cannot save itself in open waters if a DD decides wants to take you out. All other carriers can put a fight. This one cannot.

 

[Fediuld]

 

10 hours ago, Peroidas said:

What ships you suggest as first steel ship? I was considering Bourgogne, Incomparable and Ragnar, but I am open to suggestions. I am searching for a fun and if possible easy to use ship as I am playing way less often recently.

 

I am also looking for a fun coal ship from tier X. So far I have Marceau and Thunderer and and I really like both. 

 

Considering the ships you play, my advice is Bourgogne for steel.

 

Coal is more tricky option as there are a lot of DD and cruisers with varying playstyles. 

 

Definitely do not get Napoli you will regret it. This ship is for ranked where it shines when brawling BBs. For random battles has no AA, no hydro and very short main guns range regardless if you go for secondary build or not. 

[Fediuld]

10 hours ago, K82J said:

I'd say maybe Napoli ? Fast, tanky, stealthy, good guns , has torps, accurate SAP secondary, full speed smoke if needed to get away or yolo. Only missing hydro.

 

My first steel was the Stalin, didnt regretted it so far.

Do not propose ships you do not play mate. 

[quickr]

Get Bourgogne as your first steel ship, you won't regret it.

For coal I would suggest: Sherman, Tromp, Napoli, Neustrahmy and Black

[Deksi_4]

3 hours ago, Ehern said:

 

JB is more static. Bourgogne is on perma tour.

But you can make JB on perma tour too😉Just add captain skill brisk and speed flag and JB goes 37.5 knots almost non stop, with speed boost engaged.I dont have Bourg, but my plan is to get it as my second steel ship(I picked up Shikishima ten days ago). 

[Seraphice]

11 hours ago, Peroidas said:

What ships you suggest as first steel ship? I was considering Bourgogne, Incomparable and Ragnar, but I am open to suggestions. I am searching for a fun and if possible easy to use ship as I am playing way less often recently.

 

I am also looking for a fun coal ship from tier X. So far I have Marceau and Thunderer and and I really like both. 

My personal top 3 would be

Steel:
Bourgogne
Incomparable
Ragnar

Coal is tough choice as there are a lot of good picks, but...
Tromp
Moskva
Kearsarge

 

Happy holidays Captain!
~Sera

[Deksi_4]

Hi captain, 

If you are a DD main,then Ragnar would be perfect. I dont have her, but heard that Ragnar is a fantastic dd in capable hands but hard to play for an average or below average player(she has rather high skill floor and ceiling). From the other too, I would suggest you to get Bourg first. Here on the forum everyone say that she is fantastic and is certainly easier to play than Incomparable. Incomparable is a good ship but short gun range so it is a specific ship with higher skill floor and ceiling than Bourg. If I were you, I would go Bourg first, then Incomparable, then Ragnar. 

[arttuperkunas]

13 minutes ago, Deksi_4 said:

Hi captain, 

If you are a DD main,then Ragnar would be perfect. I dont have her, but heard that Ragnar is a fantastic dd in capable hands but hard to play for an average or below average player(she has rather high skill floor and ceiling). From the other too, I would suggest you to get Bourg first. Here on the forum everyone say that she is fantastic and is certainly easier to play than Incomparable. Incomparable is a good ship but short gun range so it is a specific ship with higher skill floor and ceiling than Bourg. If I were you, I would go Bourg first, then Incomparable, then Ragnar. 

Not sure I agree. Ragnar isn't a DD, it's a light cruiser without a citadel. If you are a DD main who likes to play torp boats or generally do DD things, Ragnar isn't really good for that.

[Deksi_4]

3 hours ago, Northern_Nightowl said:

I have both of them, actually using and training the same commander on both ships. I bought the Bourgogne as my first steel vessel, as no other option attracted me sufficiently, especially due to their lack of survivability and durability.

After I read information about the Bourgogne on the WoWS wiki and in some relevant forum threads here, I decided for myself that I should play this ship as if it were a cruiser. That means zooming around the map (while staying at 16km to 23km distance from the visible foes); I'm using HE shells quite a lot. While you have a nearly decent stash of HP and hence an already BB-like grade of survivability, you're not durable enough to withstand a continued hammering by something like a Montana, Yamato, Kremlin or a Großer Kurfürst (the latter especially when it's close enough to alleviate its bad main gunnery patterns). Using HE to whittle a foe down with fire and destroyed secondary artillery and AA mounts and using your speed (that can be boosted), only switching to AP for flashing broadsides (with a handy reload booster for this) works quite well. Remember: 38cm guns may lack a bit in AP power at T10, but 38cm shells filled with high explosives carry a decent fire setting power downrange. And you have at least 8 of them available at your front, 12 in total.

Before I got my own Jean Bart (this year's black version), I observed other players using it. That was mostly a bowtanking  situation and a jigging back-and-forth with motorboost on. Quite difficult to deal with when you were against it, as you'll need a flanking manoeuvre for better damage numbers. A swift DD or a boosted Georgia could pull this off, but otherwise, it's a battle of who's suffering attrition quicker to determine the winner of the engagement.

Maybe, I'm not having enough map knowledge, as this rather static style didn't work for me. So, I began to move my Jean Bart a bit more around in battles, trying to play the way I'm doing with my Bourgogne, as it is similarly equipped (save for the abysmally short ranged - 5km - and lowly loaded ASW airstrike on JB). I'm performing better now, even if I'm switching to bowtanking when it looks like the sensible thing to do.

A subjective comparison would yield that the Bourgogne feels more well-rounded and a bit more powerful for me, but you can use both ships similarly. I do also still have a strong liking for the Jean Bart and the other front-gunned Frenchy BB (Dunkerque, Strasbourg, Richelieu) having all of them in port.

You can't IMHO get wrong with a Bourgogne.

 

As for T10 coal vessel, I can't provide any decent opinion or advice. While I have a Großer Kurfürst and a Napoli, both of them are actual port queens. I'm in no way a decent cruiser player and the lack of hydro or any other vision control tool among the Italians is a showstopper. And this damned German steel brick is only good to get barbecued or pounded as any heavyweight boxer that missed the age and moment of retirement and climbs back into a ring will get.

 

Regards, Nightowl

 

 

 

Your comparation between Bourg and JB is absolutely right. I play my Jean Bart almost exclusively on flanks with brisk captain skill and speed flag, she can reach almost 38 knots so can be played similary to Bourg. Only difference being that Bourg is even faster with four gun more heavy load, so it feels more consistent( 8 vs 12 guns). I never ever play JB bow tanking, because doing that got me focused right away by HE spam ing cruisers and JB burn hella lot🙂When I switched to more moving playstile it was a lot better. I plan to get Bourgogne as my second steel ship, when I reach enough steel. 

[Deksi_4]

1 minute ago, arttuperkunas said:

Not sure I agree. Ragnar isn't a DD, it's a light cruiser without a citadel. If you are a DD main who likes to play torp boats or generally do DD things, Ragnar isn't really good for that.

I am not a dd main, I play mainly bbs and cruisers. I only play Marceau and Groningen so I based my conclusions only from other players here on forum. If Ragnar is a playstile like a light cruiser, that is perhaps the reason that I dont see almost any Ragnars in game when I play Randoms. Perhaps it is coincidence but perhaps it is about Ragnar having and using only AP which is rather underwhelming, especially playing a little more distant. I suppose that Ragnar playstile is to find dds or cruisers broadside to be able to do damage. If someone rushes you bow to you, then I suppose problems arrises. 

[KillStealBoss]

20 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

Not sure I agree. Ragnar isn't a DD, it's a light cruiser without a citadel. If you are a DD main who likes to play torp boats or generally do DD things, Ragnar isn't really good for that.

There was a DD good for that - Somers. For some reason WG decided to take it out. It didn't have best concealment, had same consumables as Gearing, had meh guns and the torp reload was decent (not crazy like Benham). Overall it was a decent ship, wasn't too good. It wasn't much popular either. 

Why it was taken out? No idea. It's steel price was similar to Ragnar one. 

 

I would like to see it coming back. I have it btw, I listened to my friend to take it and it was a good decision back then in late 2018. 

[arttuperkunas]

4 minutes ago, KillStealBoss said:

There was a DD good for that - Somers. For some reason WG decided to take it out. It didn't have best concealment, had same consumables as Gearing, had meh guns and the torp reload was decent (not crazy like Benham). Overall it was a decent ship, wasn't too good. It wasn't much popular either. 

Why it was taken out? No idea. It's steel price was similar to Ragnar one. 

 

I would like to see it coming back. I have it btw, I listened to my friend to take it and it was a good decision back then in late 2018. 

I am a DD main of the torp variety, so I would buy Somers in a heartbeat if it came up. Right now there's nothing appealing for me that's available for steel... I even spent 10 000 steel for the Made of Steel permacamo + bonus package for my Shimakaze as a bit of a flex :P.

 

That said, I would say Somers is really quite strong, particularly in CBs. Given the american smoke and triple torpedoes, I would say it's better than gearing in many comps even though it has less gunpower and slightly worse concealment (than legemod Gearing).

[arttuperkunas]

28 minutes ago, Deksi_4 said:

I am not a dd main, I play mainly bbs and cruisers. I only play Marceau and Groningen so I based my conclusions only from other players here on forum. If Ragnar is a playstile like a light cruiser, that is perhaps the reason that I dont see almost any Ragnars in game when I play Randoms. Perhaps it is coincidence but perhaps it is about Ragnar having and using only AP which is rather underwhelming, especially playing a little more distant. I suppose that Ragnar playstile is to find dds or cruisers broadside to be able to do damage. If someone rushes you bow to you, then I suppose problems arrises. 

It's a bit more nuanced than that. Ragnar HE is pretty good, and will be your main weapon against Ragnar's chief prey - cruisers and in particular battleships. It has much better ballistics than Groningen/Friesland, so Ragnar can be (and should be) played comfortable at mid range (or behind islands), spamming a constant rain of HE on battleships and cruisers. It can challenge other DDs thanks to radar, good armor and good enough guns, but will quickly melt if those DDs have support due to how large and unmanouevrable the ship is. Overall it's a very strong ship, but as I said, you don't really play it like a DD.