AA builds

[chazwozza]

AA builds viable at all or still pointless?

[Panocek]

14 minutes ago, chazwozza said:

AA builds viable at all or still pointless?

Not viable and points are better spent elsewhere.

[chazwozza]

Thought so thanks

 

[quickr]

[Panocek]

Even if you were to go full "AA build" with DFAA instead Hydro, you wouldn't stop CV airstrike, merely increase losses over time by what, one? two planes? More if CV catches DFAA boosted flak, but that is one big fat IF, which puts into question why AA build, when you can equip DFAA and then said consumable makes sense on ships already packing massive dps and flak count.

Besides:

-you're facing surface ships in every game, CVs not so much unless you division with one constantly

-AA build is not contributing when CV doesn't go anywhere near you, and even if they strike you and notice more losses than usual, they will simply go and molest someone else

[Vbeest]

Contrary to popular beliefs, AA builds make a difference for the ships that already have good AA. It can be felt on the both sides. However, never understood what would be the point of allocating commander skills and module slots to purely defensive factor against a threat that appears as less than 1/12 th of enemy teams (since not every game will include CVs).

 

Welp, CV paranoia stronk in this game. Thank god they added subs so that people might get a more balanced perspective onto what to be paranoically afraid of.

[chazwozza]

Aye might put hydro back on the atlanta

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

16 minutes ago, Vbeest said:

Contrary to popular beliefs, AA builds make a difference for the ships that already have good AA.

Don't build an AA Atlanta or people will look at you funny.

 

It only holds up for the 'new solution' AA ships, the old ones not so much. Atlanta, Grozovoi, Des Moines, Cleveland etc can't shoot down crap anymore unless the carrier pilot is a donkey that likes smoke puffs. And then there's russian carriers lol.

 

Also, building for AA will net you 1 or 2 extra planes^(*)not attacking you shot down. Whoopdidoo.

 

* again assuming the pilot is not a donkey

[Panocek]

Just now, Europizza said:

Don't build an AA Atlanta or people will look at you funny.

 

It only holds up for the 'new solution' AA ships, the old ones not so much. Atlanta, Grozovoi, Des Moines, Cleveland etc can't shoot down crap anymore unless the carrier pilot is a donkey that likes smoke puffs. And then there's russian carriers lol.

Tbh Atlanta, Cleveland or any other not-tragic-AA cruiser with DFAA is welcome in Operations, especially Hermes given air traffic there

[Ubertron_X]

24 minutes ago, quickr said:

[chazwozza]

Atlanta not built as AA its just its consumable was unlimited AA def or limited hydro 

[lup3s]

23 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Tbh Atlanta, Cleveland or any other not-tragic-AA cruiser with DFAA is welcome in Operations, especially Hermes given air traffic there

 

imo D7P is better since you don't have to rely on def AA to deal significant damage to planes; but any ship with decent DPS or a decent amount of flak works in Hermes

[Panocek]

Just now, lup3s said:

 

imo D7P is better since you don't have to rely on def AA to deal significant damage to planes; but any ship with decent DPS or a decent amount of flak works in Hermes

Given squadron sizes, especially in Hermes, meaningful number of flak might be preferable.

 

Then there's issue of D7P being one-off Dockyard ship, so its not exactly something you can get now.

[NewHorizons_1]

30 minutes ago, lup3s said:

imo D7P is better since you don't have to rely on def AA to deal significant damage to planes; but any ship with decent DPS or a decent amount of flak works in Hermes

I don't have D7P, but one of the reasons Cleveland is now one of my faves for random ops (where the types of opponents is uncertain) is that it has a good selection of tools - without having to choose one OR the other.

• Radar for spotting the DDs in Cherry Blossom or the transports that get smoked in Narai
• DefAA for Hermes ...
• ... and hydro for Hermes & Cherry Blossom

[Panocek]

2 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

I don't have D7P, but one of the reasons Cleveland is now one of my faves for ops is that it has a good selection of tools - without having to choose one OR the other.

• Radar for spotting the DDs in Cherry Blossom or the transports that get smoked in Narai
• DefAA for Hermes ...
• ... and hydro for Hermes & Cherry Blossom

And one of the best damage outputs at short to mid range, coupled with reasonably fast turrets that have good firing arcs and low citadel placement.

Edinbruh I've also found to be great allrounder, be it with smoke or radar. 3d printer certainly comes in handy.

 

On second thought, the moment WG enables tier 9 into Operations it would be the most difficult tier to play Ops... and not due to additional scaling on bots, but most tech tree tier 9s are sidegrade-to-mild-upgrade to tier 8s at best, add in everyone and their mom bringing Alaska/Agir/other large cruiser. Sure, they can be tanky, but they lack dakka and you usually want to kill the enemy before they kill you.

[________________Morrison]

AA built smolensk is funny i guess. Rumor has it austin is better but.

Very rarely do good aa ships get a thanos snap on a cv.

[Panocek]

8 minutes ago, Milfious said:

AA built smolensk is funny i guess. Rumor has it austin is better but.

Very rarely do good aa ships get a thanos snap on a cv.

Smolensk, Nevsky, Petro, Stalingrad and last three IJN CLs all have +-200 long range dps. With Smol having the shortest range at 6km, rest is 6.6km or 6.9 in Nevsky/IJN case. So any of these will probably do the same AA trick just fine, without Smolensk fragility.

 

And technically Austin is better, both in raw numbers and flak count, she also can't opt out of the DFAA, if you happen to have SUCH raging hard-on for anti air.

Annapolis have the same long range AA as Austin, but much better midrange when at it and being overall better against surface ships. Newer, shinier ship after all

[NewHorizons_1]

47 minutes ago, Panocek said:

And one of the best damage outputs

Ohhh, yeah baby.

 

47 minutes ago, Panocek said:

On second thought, the moment WG enables tier 9 into Operations it would be the most difficult tier to play Ops... and not due to additional scaling on bots, but most tech tree tier 9s are sidegrade-to-mild-upgrade to tier 8s at best, add in everyone and their mom bringing Alaska/Agir/other large cruiser. Sure, they can be tanky, but they lack dakka and you usually want to kill the enemy before they kill you.

The selection of T9 premium light cruisers is, indeed, somewhat limited in number and capabilities.

• Dalian - like most Pan Asian CLs no hydro nor radar
• Vallejo - Unusually for a USN CL no hydro nor radar - could have been a good pick for random ops otherwise.
• Hector - when available, could be OK. Crawling smoke + hydro, but has to choose between that and DefAA

 

... and that's it. No T9 premium equivalent of Edin/Cleve/Mainz

[lup3s]

21 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

Ohhh, yeah baby.

 

The selection of T9 premium light cruisers is, indeed, somewhat limited in number and capabilities.

• Dalian - like most Pan Asian CLs no hydro nor radar
• Vallejo - Unusually for a USN CL no hydro nor radar - could have been a good pick for random ops otherwise.
• Hector - when available, could be OK. Crawling smoke + hydro, but has to choose between that and DefAA

 

... and that's it. No T9 premium equivalent of Edin/Cleve/Mainz

 

I think Radar isn't really needed and hydrl is useful but the lack thereof can be played around.

Operations follow a pattern so it's easier to make predictions.

 

:edit:

off-topic but I'm looking forward to use ships like Schultz, Mogador, Kitakaze, Benham ... in Ops :)

[_DemonGuard_]

The major problem with an AA build, even for ships with fantastic AA, is: one HE salvo from a BB or a couple from DD/CA/CL (or strike from CV) and you don't have any meaningful AA left, so all your inputs in captain skills and upgrades are still wasted.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

2 hours ago, Vbeest said:

Contrary to popular beliefs, AA builds make a difference for the ships that already have good AA. It can be felt on the both sides. However, never understood what would be the point of allocating commander skills and module slots to purely defensive factor against a threat that appears as less than 1/12 th of enemy teams (since not every game will include CVs).

 

Welp, CV paranoia stronk in this game. Thank god they added subs so that people might get a more balanced perspective onto what to be paranoically afraid of.

 

You do AA builds to protect your team. They used to actually work, both in randoms and operations too. This game, as originally developed, was actually a pretty good take on many aspects of naval action in a way that used to make sense as opposed to the mess we got now. If the game still worked like that, AA builds would make sense as a defensive element, same as if we had defensive countermeasures against subs, that too would make sense. The better you can screen your team against potential threats, the better your team can do against the red team.

[Nibenay78]

20 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

You do AA builds to protect your team. They used to actually work, both in randoms and operations too. This game, as originally developed, was actually a pretty good take on many aspects of naval action in a way that used to make sense as opposed to the mess we got now. If the game still worked like that, AA builds would make sense as a defensive element, same as if we had defensive countermeasures against subs, that too would make sense. The better you can screen your team against potential threats, the better your team can do against the red team.

Completely wrong!

 

You do AA builds to laugh at 46-48% CV players who lose too many planes against you. Those over can manage it and those below collect flak like candies anyways.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

3 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Completely wrong!

 

You do AA builds to laugh at 46-48% CV players who lose too many planes against you. Those over can manage it and those below collect flak like candies anyways.

 

Well that's another way of looking at it.

 

Spoiler

Also the reason why I don't play CV's.

 

[22cm]

3 hours ago, chazwozza said:

AA builds viable at all or still pointless?

Yes, but only on Halland and Dalarna.

[Nibenay78]

14 minutes ago, 22cm said:

Yes, but only on Halland and Dalarna.

I was harrassed by a Malta while fighting in a cap in Dalarna, As I was running he came at me again from behind. Running full AA build + sector + DefAA, I suddenly saw several red numbers appear on top of eachother and the entire full squad incinerate itself on flak. It really should go in the "best achievement thread" but its not like I really did anything...

 

I had to go change pants afterwards.