Japanese alt battleship tech tree+some ships

[TheKaramelka]

The Americans, as an ancient nation in the game, received the Vermont branch in the game as an alternative (main), but there are still old people like the Japanese, who have not changed anything in the development tree for battleships for a long time. Here I will offer a branch of 3 battleships based on Number 13 projects of different variations. In some ways, they resemble Vermont (low reload), but they are clearly ahead of him in speed

Tech tree features:

• Many large-caliber barrels (12 406 mm guns at tier 8, 10 457 mm guns at tier 9 and 12 457 mm guns at tier 10);
• Slow reload speed;
• High top speed;
• Weak belt protection (305 mm);
• Rapid-fire and long-range 140 mm secondary weapons, with increased armor penetration and accuracy;

Representatives:

Spoiler

Japanese battleship Omine, Tier VIII:

With design B the divergence from the previous capital ship series begun. This proposal features 12x 41cm cannons in 4 triple turrets making it as strong firepower wise as the South Dakotas of the USN yet on a 56km/h or 30knot hull and thick 305mm belt armour plates inclined to 15 degrees.

Spoiler

Displacement: 48200 t

Plating: 32 mm

Deck: 32 mm

Armor belt: 305 mm

Length: 265,17 m

Hit points: 69 800

Torpedo protection: 40%

Main armament

4х3 410 mm/45 3rd Year Type

Reload time: 40 sec

Firing range: 19,3 km

180 degree turn time: 55,25 sec

Sigma: 1,7

HE – 410 mm HE Type 0

     Projectile weight: 1550 kg

     Max damage: 6500

     Fire Chance: 30%

     Armor penetration: 68 mm

     HE initial velocity: 869 m/s

AP – 410 mm AP/APC Type 91

     Projectile weight: 1020 kg

     Max damage: 12 600

     AP initial velocity: 806 m/s

Secondary Armament

8х2 140 mm/50 3rd Year Type

      Reload time: 6 sec

      Max Damage: 2 100

      Fire Chance: 8%

      Armor penetration: 35 mm

      Firing range: 7,6 km

      HE initial velocity: 725 m/s

AA defense:

8х2 140 mm/50 3rd Year Type

10х3 25 mm/60 Type 96

20х2 25 mm/60 Type 96

Maximum speed: 30 kts

Turning circle radius: 920 m

Rudder shift time: 18,2 sec

Surface detectability: 16,6 km

Air detectability: 12,6 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Repair Party

Japanese battleship Shiran, Tier IX:

The L variant is a logical step based on the previous designs, increasing the firepower by mounting ten 46cm in 5 twin turrets.

Spoiler

Displacement: 56900 t

Plating: 32 mm

Deck: 32 mm

Armor belt: 305 mm

Length: 277 m

Hit points: 95 000

Torpedo protection: 47%

Main armament

5х2 457 mm/50 5th Year Type

Reload time: 40 sec

Firing range: 21,0 km

180 degree turn time: 45 sec

Sigma: 1,75

HE – 457 mm HE  Type 0

     Projectile weight: 1550 kg

     Max damage: 7100

     Fire Chance: 54%

     Armor penetration: 76 mm

     HE initial velocity: 800 m/s

AP – 457 mm AP Type 91

     Projectile weight: 1360 kg

     Max damage: 14 300

     AP initial velocity: 800 m/s

Secondary Armament

8х2 140 mm/50 3rd Year Type

      Reload time: 6 sec

      Max Damage: 2 100

      Fire Chance: 8%

      Armor penetration: 35 mm

      Firing range: 8 km

      HE initial velocity: 725 m/s

AA defense:

8х2 140 mm/50 3rd Year Type

12х2 40 mm/60 Type 5

20х2 25 mm/60 Type 96

Maximum speed: 30 kts

Turning circle radius: 940 m

Rudder shift time: 21,8 sec

Surface detectability: 17,1 km

Air detectability: 13,9 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Repair Party

Japanese battleship Kuro, Tier X:

Design M was a further step in firepower increase in the series now mounting 12x 46cm cannons in four triple turrets.

Spoiler

Displacement: 57200 t

Plating: 32 mm

Deck: 32 mm

Armor belt: 305 mm

Length: 274,4 m

Hit points: 96 750

Torpedo protection: 49%

Main armament

4х3 457 mm/50 5th Year Type

Reload time: 40 sec

Firing range: 21,7 km

180 degree turn time: 45 sec

Sigma: 1,8

HE – 457 mm HE  Type 0

     Projectile weight: 1550 kg

     Max damage: 7100

     Fire Chance: 54%

     Armor penetration: 76 mm

     HE initial velocity: 800 m/s

AP – 457 mm AP/APC Type 91

     Projectile weight: 1550 kg

     Max damage: 15 150

     AP initial velocity: 800 m/s

Secondary Armament

8х2 140 mm/50 3rd Year Type

      Reload time: 6 sec

      Max Damage: 2 100

      Fire Chance: 8%

      Armor penetration: 35 mm

      Firing range: 8,3 km

      HE initial velocity: 725 m/s

AA defense:

8х2 140 mm/50 3rd Year Type

16х2 40 mm/60 Type 5

13х3 25 mm/60 Type 96

Maximum speed: 30 kts

Turning circle radius: 930 m

Rudder shift time: 19,5 sec

Surface detectability: 16,9 km

Air detectability: 12,8 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Repair Party

 

Some ships:

Spoiler

Japanese battleship Akan, Tier Х:

Design K was the first IJN Battleship proposal to mount an even larger calibre weapon then the 41cm, the 46cm cannons in four twin turrets arranged Kongo style for stability and strength reasons and to separate the turbine rooms.

Spoiler

Displacement: 49000 t

Plating: 32 mm

Deck: 32 mm

Armor belt: 305 mm

Length: 271,27 m

Hit points: 95 600

Torpedo protection: 49%

Main armament

4х2 457 mm/50 5th Year Type

Reload time: 27 sec

Firing range: 23,9 km

180 degree turn time: 45 sec

Sigma: 2,05

HE – 457 mm HE  Type 0

     Projectile weight: 1550 kg

     Max damage: 6500

     Fire Chance: 30%

     Armor penetration: 68 mm

     HE initial velocity: 800 m/s

AP – 457 mm AP Type 91

     Projectile weight: 1550 kg

     Max damage: 15 150

     AP initial velocity: 800 m/s

Secondary Armament

8х2 140 mm/50 3rd Year Type

      Reload time: 6 sec

      Max Damage: 2 100

      Fire Chance: 8%

      Armor penetration: 35 mm

      Firing range: 8,3 km

      HE initial velocity: 725 m/s

AA defense:

8х2 140 mm/50 3rd Year Type

16х2 40 mm/60 Type 5

18х3 25 mm/60 Type 96

Maximum speed: 30 kts

Turning circle radius: 930 m

Rudder shift time: 18,7 sec

Surface detectability: 16,7 km

Air detectability: 12,6 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Repair Party

American superbattleship New Jersey:

This scheme was not only well armoured (Thicker belt then the BB65-6 scheme) but as fast as the Iowa class! But as a consequence the proposed size of the ship drastically grow to 320m waterline with an increased engine power of 320.000shp also resulting an increased shaft number to 6! Overall this would had been a gigantic ship if built with plenty of space for other equipment and still could sail next to the Iowas with maximum speed. 

From its predecessor, it received 12 406 mm guns, with good AP shell damage, high firing range, strong air defense, as well as Improved Repair Party and Reinforced Emergency Response. After a certain number of hits, combat instructions are activated - an alternative firing mode that provides a temporary boost in battle. When a combat instruction is triggered, New Jersey receives a bonus - 10% to the reloading of main battery guns, + 16.7% to gun accuracy

Spoiler

Displacement: 82000 t

Plating: 32 mm

Deck: 50 mm

Armor belt: 409 mm

Length: 320 m

Hit points: 110 700

Torpedo protection: 44%

Main armament

4х3 406 mm/50 Mk.7

Reload time: 30 sec

Firing range: 25,2 km

180 degree turn time: 45 sec

Sigma: 2,0

HE – 406 mm HE/HC Mk13 

     Projectile weight: 862 kg

     Max damage: 5700

     Fire Chance: 36%

     Armor penetration: 68 mm

     HE initial velocity: 820 m/s

AP – 406 mm AP Mk8 

     Projectile weight: 1225 kg

     Max damage: 13 500

     AP initial velocity: 762 m/s

Secondary Armament

10х2 127 mm/54 Mk.16

      Reload time: 4 sec

      Max Damage: 1 800

      Fire Chance: 9%

      Armor penetration: 21 mm

      Firing range: 8,3 km

      HE initial velocity: 808 m/s

AA defense:

10х2 127 mm/54 Mk.16

20х2 76.2 mm/50 Mk.22

50х2 20 mm Oerlikon

26х1 20 mm Oerlikon

Maximum speed: 33 kts

Turning circle radius: 1080 m

Rudder shift time: 25,2 sec

Surface detectability: 19,7 km

Air detectability: 14,7 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Reinforced Emergency Response

Slot 2 - Improved Repair Party

American aircraft carrier Philadelphia, Tier X:

One of the early versions of the aircraft carrier United States, which was a cross between aircraft carriers such as Essex, Midway and United States.

Spoiler

Displacement: 54500 t.

Plating: 19 mm

Deck: 80 mm

Armor belt: 100 mm

Overall length: 292 m

Hit points: 66800

Torpedo protection: 19%

Attack Aircraft: F7F Tigercat

Number of aircrafton deck: 16

Aircraft per squadron: 8

Size of attacking flight: 2

Hit points: 1320

Speed: 180

Max speed: 215

Engine boost time: 10

Engine boost reload time: 20

Rockets type: HVAR 127 mm

Machine gun action time: 3,8 sec

Max HE Damage: 2000

Number of rockets on the plane: 8

Fire chance: 7

Armor penetration of HE: 33 mm

Aircraft recovery time: 68 sec

Torpedo bombers: A2D Skyshark

Number of aircrafton deck: 16

Aircraft per squadron: 8

Size of attacking flight: 2

Hit points: 1440

Speed: 171

Max speed: 206

Engine boost time: 20

Engine boost reload time: 40

Torpedo type: Torpedo Mk.7 mod. 1

Max Torpedo Damage: 5067

Number of torpedoes on the aircraft: 1

Torpedo speed: 35

Torpedo range: 4 km

Arming range of torpedoes: 470 m

Flood chance: 42%

Aircraft recovery time: 59 sec

Skip bombers: A2D Skyshark

Number of aircrafton deck: 16

Aircraft per squadron: 8

Size of attacking flight: 2

Hit points: 1300

Speed: 177

Max speed: 212

Engine boost time: 20

Engine boost reload time: 40

Bomb type: AN-M64

Max Bomb Damage: 7300

Number of bombs on the plane: 6

Fire Chance: 41%

Armor penetration of HE bombs: 42 mm

Aircraft recovery time: 54 sec

Secondary Armament:

8х1 127 mm/54 Mk.16

      Reload time: 4 sec

      Max Damage: 1 800

      Fire Chance: 9%

      Armor penetration: 21 mm

      Firing range: 7,3 km

      HE initial velocity: 808 m/s

AA defense:

8х1 127 mm/54 Mk.16

12х1 76.2 mm/70 Mk.23

Maximum speed: 33,1 kts.

Turning circle radius: 1220 m

Rudder shift time: 16 sec

Surface detectability: 15,2 km

Air detectability: 12,3 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Fighter

Germany supercarrier Josef Jacobs:

Like its predecessor Manfred von Richthofen, it is based on the design of the battleship H-41. The aircraft carrier, like its predecessor, has a large number of rapid-fire and long-range secondary weapons, as well as fast aircraft. Standard aircraft like Sekiryu in full strength: attack aircraft, torpedo bombers and bombers as on Manfred von Richthofen, tactical air group is represented by torpedo bombers and bombers with AP bombs.

Spoiler

Displacement: 63700 t.

Plating: 19 mm

Deck: 50 mm

Armor belt: 250 mm

Overall length: 287 m

Hit points: 75 600

Torpedo protection: 28%

Standard squadrons

Attack Aircraft: Me 155G

Number of aircrafton deck: 14

Aircraft per squadron: 9

Size of attacking flight: 3

Hit points: 1440

Speed: 172

Max speed: 212

Engine boost time: 10

Engine boost reload time: 20

Rockets type: Panzerbrechend 2 L/4.8

Machine gun action time: 1,5 sec

Max AP Damage: 2000

Number of rockets on the plane: 4

Armor penetration of AP: 277 mm

Aircraft recovery time: 78 sec

Torpedo bombers: Ta 152C-1/R14

Number of aircrafton deck: 16

Aircraft per squadron: 9

Size of attacking flight: 3

Hit points: 1710

Speed: 174

Max speed: 214

Engine boost time: 20

Engine boost reload time: 40

Torpedo type: BT 1000

Max Torpedo Damage: 4533

Number of torpedoes on the aircraft: 1

Torpedo speed: 55

Torpedo range: 3 km

Arming range of torpedoes: 591 m

Flood chance: 39%

Aircraft recovery time: 94 sec

Dive bombers:  Ta 152C-1/R14

Number of aircrafton deck: 20

Aircraft per squadron: 12

Size of attacking flight: 3

Hit points: 1530

Speed: 174

Max speed: 214

Engine boost time: 20

Engine boost reload time: 40

Bomb type: PC 1000

Max Bomb Damage: 8800

Number of bombs on the plane: 1

Armor penetration of AP bombs: 331 mm

Aircraft recovery time: 72 sec

Tactical squadrons

Torpedo bombers: Ar 234 B

 

Size of attacking flight: 3

Hit points: 1780

Speed: 195

Max speed: 390

Torpedo type: BT 1000

Max Torpedo Damage: 4533

Number of torpedoes on the aircraft: 2

Torpedo speed: 55

Torpedo range: 3 km

Arming range of torpedoes: 591 m

Flood chance: 39%

Squadration recovery time: 240 sec

Dive bombers: Ar 234 B

Size of attacking flight: 2

Hit points: 1800

Speed: 195

Max speed: 390

Bomb type: PC 1400

Max Bomb Damage: 12000

Number of bombs on the plane: 1

Armor penetration of AP bombs: 397 mm

Squadration recovery time: 360 sec

Secondary Armament:

14х2 128 mm/61 KM40

      Reload time: 4 sec

      Max Damage: 1 500

      Fire Chance: 5%

      Armor penetration: 32 mm

      Firing range: 7,3 km

      HE initial velocity: 900 m/s

8х2 150 mm/55 SK C/28

      Reload time: 7.1 sec

      Max Damage: 1 700

      Fire Chance: 8%

      Armor penetration: 38 mm

      Firing range: 7,3 km

      HE initial velocity: 875 m/s

AA defense:

14х2 128 mm/61 KM40

18х2 55 mm/77 Gerät 58

Maximum speed: 30,7 kts.

Turning circle radius: 1250 m

Rudder shift time: 16,9 sec

Surface detectability: 14,0 km

Air detectability: 14,7 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Fighter

Germany superdestroyer Z-57:

Continuation of the Z-52, the number of main guns on the ship increased to 4 turrets, and 2 five-tube torpedo tubes appeared. The destroyer took the features of its predecessor: excellent HE penetration, being able to pen 32mm plating, high AP alpha damage, Long range and long lasting Hydroacoustic Search consumable, however, like Yamagiri and Dalarna, there are 2 types of torpedoes to choose from

Spoiler

Displacement: 3700 t

Plating: 19 mm

Length: 125,5 m

Hit points: 23 400

Main armament

4х2 128 mm/45 SK C/41

Reload time: 3,8 sec

Firing range: 13,3 km

180 degree turn time: 10 sec

Sigma: 2,0

HE – 128 mm Spr.Gr. 

     Projectile weight: 28 kg

     Max damage: 1500

     Fire Chance: 7%

     Armor penetration: 32 mm

     HE initial velocity: 830 m/s

AP – 128 mm P.Spr.Gr. Ausf.B 

     Projectile weight: 28 kg

     Max damage: 3000

     AP initial velocity: 830 m/s

Torpedo armament
2х5 533 mm Fünfling

       Reload ime: 72 seconds

       Torpedo type: G7 Steinwal
       Damage: 14 400

       Flood chance: 240%
       Speed: 69 knots
       Range: 10,5 km
       Detection range: 1,4 km

Alternative torpedo type: G7 Kreuzotter
       Damage: 19 800

       Flood chance: 329%
       Speed: 59 knots
       Range: 15,0 km
       Detection range: 1,4 km

AA defense:

4х2 128 mm/45 SK C/41

4х2 55 mm/77 Gerät 58

7х2 37 mm/69 Flak M42

Maximum speed: 42,5 kts

Turning circle radius: 710 m

Rudder shift time: 4,8 sec

Surface detectability: 7,7 km

Air detectability: 3,9 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Smoke Generator

Slot 3 - Engine boost

Slot 4 - Hydroacoustic Search

 

If you don't like my posts, PLEASE don't comment them, don't bring yourself and me into conflict.

This is my personal proposal and not the fact that ships will ever appear in the game or my concept will be taken into attention!

 Thank you for your attention!

[KillStealBoss]

12x460mm is a bit... Too much. Unless you apply a reload like Vermont has. 

[TheKaramelka]

5 hours ago, KillStealBoss said:

12x460mm is a bit... Too much. Unless you apply a reload like Vermont has. 

Thay called 46 cm, but they real size 457 mm like a vermont. Damage here worse (15 150 against to 15 750), worse sigma (1,8 against to 1,95) with the same reload time (40 sec) and worse belt armor, but better speed and secondary 

[Panocek]

12 minutes ago, TheKaramelka said:

Thay called 46 cm, but they real size 457 mm like a vermont. Damage here worse (15 150 against to 15 750), worse sigma (1,8 against to 1,95) with the same reload time (40 sec) and worse belt armor, but better speed and secondary 

Yamato have only 14800. USN having almost 16k damage on 457mm is nod towards "superheavy" shells that were developed for said cannon, so "non superheavy" IJN equivalent of 457mm would be more like Kremlin, around 14.5k per shell. Also given you've come up with these guns basically out of your arse, you might as well go with 15s reload, but damage capped at 6-8k per shell. Something... different instead big boomsticks with 30/32mm overmatch.

 

Speaking of which, does game truly need more overmatch?

[TheKaramelka]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Yamato have only 14800. USN having almost 16k damage on 457mm is nod towards "superheavy" shells that were developed for said cannon, so "non superheavy" IJN equivalent of 457mm would be more like Kremlin, around 14.5k per shell. Also given you've come up with these guns basically out of your arse, you might as well go with 15s reload, but damage capped at 6-8k per shell. Something... different instead big boomsticks with 30/32mm overmatch.

 

Speaking of which, does game truly need more overmatch?

After doing a little research, I found that the calculation of the AP of shells in our game depends on the weight of the ammunition. The weight of the Yamato projectile is 1460, while №13 has an ammunition (with an unknown number) that weighs 1550, and this one is just the average weight between Vermont (1746) and the Kremlin (1373). I just calculated the average value of these shells ((1373+1746)/2=1559 kg). At the same time, I took the average damage value of the AP shells of these two battleships ((14,500+ 15,750)/2=15,125 (rounded up to 15,150))

[Panocek]

17 minutes ago, TheKaramelka said:

After doing a little research, I found that the calculation of the AP of shells in our game depends on the weight of the ammunition. The weight of the Yamato projectile is 1460, while №13 has an ammunition (with an unknown number) that weighs 1550, and this one is just the average weight between Vermont (1746) and the Kremlin (1373). I just calculated the average value of these shells ((1373+1746)/2=1559 kg). At the same time, I took the average damage value of the AP shells of these two battleships ((14,500+ 15,750)/2=15,125 (rounded up to 15,150))

I'd say damage assigned to a shell is merely inspired by RL properties, though looking at NorCal->Iowa, shell velocity is accounted in damage formula. But then, these are ancient ships made in times when WG at least pretended to care about logic or consistency.

In the end, whatever Wargaming considers "balance" takes precedence, as Kremlin initially had 15.5k damage per shell and it was lowered to 14.5k. Upcoming Soyuz class with twin 457mm under aliexpress banner also was axed to 13k damage per shell.

 

Also I'm not aware of IJN having any "457mm", closest would be already known Yamato class and some "13 class" proposals of 460mm caliber, dating back to ww1 almost, which seems to be your ships?

[TheKaramelka]

3 minutes ago, Panocek said:

I'd say damage assigned to a shell is merely inspired by RL properties, though looking at NorCal->Iowa, shell velocity is accounted in damage formula. But then, these are ancient ships made in times when WG at least pretended to care about logic or consistency.

In the end, whatever Wargaming considers "balance" takes precedence, as Kremlin initially had 15.5k damage per shell and it was lowered to 14.5k. Upcoming Soyuz class with twin 457mm under aliexpress banner also was axed to 13k damage per shell.

 

Also I'm not aware of IJN having any "457mm", closest would be already known Yamato class and some "13 class" proposals of 460mm caliber, dating back to ww1 almost.

Officially, they called these calibers, reducing them to 460 cm, but the actual size of the gun was 457 mm. And since we touched on the topic of AP shells:

As you can see, guns of the same brand but with different projectile weights have different damage, like guns of different calibers, have different calibers, but with sufficient weight they have the same or higher damage

[Panocek]

8 minutes ago, TheKaramelka said:

As you can see, guns of the same brand but with different projectile weights have different damage, like guns of different calibers, have different calibers, but with sufficient weight they have the same or higher damage

Then you have case of Sun Yat Sen and Kremlin, both having the same gun (B-45 457mm/48), same initial velocity (800m/s), shell of the same name (AP model 1946) yet aliexpress one is 300kg lighter and have noticeably lower damage To make things even better, both wowsft and shiptool calculate both shells to have identical flight times.

 

Iowa uses /50 caliber length gun + heavier propellant load, thats what affects slightly higher damage per shell, as IIRC actual projectiles are interchangeable between Mk.6 and Mk.7 guns.

[TheKaramelka]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Then you have case of Sun Yat Sen and Kremlin, both having the same gun (B-45 457mm/48), same initial velocity (800m/s), shell of the same name (AP model 1946) yet aliexpress one is 300kg lighter and have noticeably lower damage To make things even better, both wowsft and shiptool calculate both shells to have identical flight times.

 

Iowa uses /50 caliber length gun + heavier propellant load, thats what affects slightly higher damage per shell, as IIRC actual projectiles are interchangeable between Mk.6 and Mk.7 guns.

in case you haven't noticed, the Iowa, Minnesota and Kansas guns are the same (only the barrel length is different, which in theory should affect the speed of the projectile and not the damage). However, the weight is different as well as the damage of all three.
Regarding Sun Yat Sen and Kremlin: I can’t say for sure what, where and how, because the markings of shells could be the same at different weights, or maybe the shell was some kind of experimental or dug out somewhere in the bowels of the archives (as in the case of Slava, B-52 guns were never confirmed)

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, TheKaramelka said:

in case you haven't noticed, the Iowa, Minnesota and Kansas guns are the same (only the barrel length is different, which in theory should affect the speed of the projectile and not the damage). However, the weight is different as well as the damage of all three.

And yet, it seems shell velocity is accounted in damage formula. That or arbitrary damage number because WG can do it, just like they arbitrarily gave German DD/cruiser guns abnormally high AP shell damage, without IRL reason to do so. And after taking a look at navweaps, German naval 128mm guns didn't had "AP" ammunition in first place, same story with IJN 127 and 100 guns, they were HE only.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Where does the 'random element' come into these equations?