Advice on Destroyers

[Pururut]

I got lucky with crates and landed Black and Gröningen. I don't want to learn DD play from scratch at tier 9 so the forum is welcome to recommend tech tree lines up to tier 8 with the goal of getting me into the mind set necessary for the mentioned ships. Due to time restraints I can only do 4 or 5 lines at most. Don't waste your time with in-depth explanations or videos. Just recommendations shall suffice. 

[Lootboxer]

Play USA line then. Problem is that there is no line with ships with features like those 2, USA captains will work on Black though. Other one is limited to smoke he spam with poor concealment and no torps it's a bad dd if there is nobody to scout for you.

[tocqueville8]

USN for sure.

 

They share the same smokes and at Tier 5-7 they have the best DPM in tier (Benson is dethroned by Akizuki, but she's still a nasty knife-fighter), with few to no radars to worry about. As long as they angle against enemy torps, they can farm those charging enemies like pros. The Mahan's and Benson's slow-a** fish might also teach you how to use the Black's.

 

They're also quite strong:

 

[lafeel]

Here's one piece of advice that holds true with every DD in the game: Your only true friends are your W, A, S, and D keys.

[Verblonde]

3 hours ago, Pururut said:

Just recommendations shall suffice.

Another vote for the US line, and maybe add in the PA line, for practice with DD radar (although that might be excessive, since they only get from T8, and Black is only one tier higher)...

[SmokinSerj]

To be honest, I struggled with US DDs, although I had some surprisingly good games in them, including 2 krakens. But I can count those good games on my fingers without taking off my shoes.

They can probably do well in some more expert hands, not mine. They usually have shorter torp range than their concealment (which bothers me most). Currently at Mahan, I really hope they became better higher-up. 

The line I most enjoyed is the Pan European one. Very good hybrids, long and fast torps (although not very strong, damage wise), strong HE, good speed, good concealment, heal... but no smoke. 

Not exactly related with those two (Black and Groningen), but you'll learn to play DDs in a less painful way, imo.

[Panocek]

Tbh most "good" destroyer recommendations start from tier 8 onwards: Lightning, Benson, Akizuki. tiers 5 to 7 are usually forgettable in first place.

Black is Fletcher with unique radar+smoke combo and meme torps, Groningen is gunship that struggles to do destroyer things due to shitty concealment, but unlike French or Russians, don't have speed nor good ballistics, so she relies on smoke/island cover. 

 

USN can't stealth torp until tier 7, UK tier 5 and 6 are certified snorefest, though with Jervis you start seeing light at the end of the tunnel. Ships preceding Akizuki play nothing like her, so there isn't "lowtier" Groningen equivalent.

 

Given it would be difficult for Randoms to detoriate any further in player quality, diving head first with your two additions is as good idea as any.

[CapnGebs]

My recommendation for anyone wanting to get better at DD play is to check out the youtuber "destroyer kuroshio kai". He always sails destroyers and in every one he explains the decision making processes behind his actions, points out any mistakes he or his opponent makes and the better course of action. Every video is an education. I have learnt a lot from watching his videos.

[BrusilovX]

6 hours ago, Verblonde said:

Another vote for the US line, and maybe add in the PA line, for practice with DD radar (although that might be excessive, since they only get from T8, and Black is only one tier higher)...

My problem with the PA line is DT (Deep Water Torpedoes).  When up against other DDs I feel at a disadvantage not being able to hit them with torpedoes.

[SmokinSerj]

28 minutes ago, BrusilovX said:

My problem with the PA line is DT (Deep Water Torpedoes).  When up against other DDs I feel at a disadvantage not being able to hit them with torpedoes.

😅 Wait until you get Asashio!

[BrusilovX]

1 minute ago, SmokinSerj said:

😅 Wait until you get Asashio!

I have the Asashio and Asashio B - back when I played randoms it was fun to torp BBs hiding behind islands from the flank. I lost karma for doing that - but it was worth it for the BB tears. Not so much fun in co-op as it's over so fast.

[Cammo1962]

52 minutes ago, SmokinSerj said:

😅 Wait until you get Asashio!

I love my Asashios 

[Cammo1962]

57 minutes ago, BrusilovX said:

I have the Asashio and Asashio B - back when I played randoms it was fun to torp BBs hiding behind islands from the flank. I lost karma for doing that - but it was worth it for the BB tears. Not so much fun in co-op as it's over so fast.

One of my best games in my Asashio was when i took down 2 tier 8 CVs in 1 salvo and a few minuts later took out a Richelieu and one on my team called me the avenger and i was at full health when the game ended 

 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

My advice? Learn at tiers 5, 6 and 7 before jumping to 8. If you can master or get reasonably good in the silver tree DD's at those tiers. Everything you learn slugging it down there without the benefits of concealment module etc will pay dividends when you have it. USN line, Royal Navy line and IJN to Shima line are all good routes to get started on. 

[SkipperCH]

Removed 3 posts for spam and OT.

[arttuperkunas]

12 hours ago, Pururut said:

I got lucky with crates and landed Black and Gröningen. I don't want to learn DD play from scratch at tier 9 so the forum is welcome to recommend tech tree lines up to tier 8 with the goal of getting me into the mind set necessary for the mentioned ships. Due to time restraints I can only do 4 or 5 lines at most. Don't waste your time with in-depth explanations or videos. Just recommendations shall suffice. 

British DDs are easy to play and forgiving, and good at teaching DD essentials. They are competitive in all gamemodes. T8 lightning is excellent.

 

Shimakaze line is good for teaching spotting/torping focused DD play, and is competitive at least in randoms throughout. T8 kagero is more OK than excellent, but teaches you a lot about how to play DDs.

 

Haru line is good for smoke spamming gunboat DD play, and is also competitive in randoms. T8 akizuki is excellent.

[Northern_Nightowl]

I do not quite get the catch why everyone is telling that the USN DD line is good for learning destroyer work. I also followed this thinking, but failed, not getting the way to employ my armaments effectively. The concealment, larger than your torpedo range, hampered me too much.

 

To learn the basics of "Destroyer", I'd say that nothing is better than the IJN ships, followed by the German ones. To adapt to destroyer hunters, which is a likely role for Black and Groningen, the Germans may be a bit better due to their guns.

For me, I got more confident in DD only after I began playing the IJN ships (especially the HSF Harekaze, on which I developed my liking for torpedo boats and most of my DD skills, I'd assess those as being of as "medium quality").

 

The RN ships? On T5 and T6: not enjoyable. T7 Jervis is better, but you'll have to wisely judge when to use torpedoes, as those still feel painfully short ranged (albeit with a swimming capability that outreach your concealment, at least).

 

If you're ready to use resources for Premiums, I'd think than the T6 Gallant (RN, recommendation for gunnery, torpedoes and smoke usage) and the T7 Sims (USN, recommendation due to torpedoes that may feel similar to the Black mounted weapons) may pave a good way for you to get used to your T9 ships.

 

Regards, Nightowl

[MadBadDave]

Black is a beast in the right hands but you need to know what you’re doing, the US line is the best place to start,  and to help improve your skills play smokeless DD’s, it gives you a better understanding of concealment and when not to charge in or cap contest etc. 

 

DD play is totally different between co ops and randoms ; another good learning method, ie play alternately. 

[Verblonde]

2 hours ago, Northern_Nightowl said:

I do not quite get the catch why everyone is telling that the USN DD line is good for learning destroyer work. I also followed this thinking, but failed, not getting the way to employ my armaments effectively. The concealment, larger than your torpedo range, hampered me too much.

My feeling on this FWIW is that the US line *forces* you to master use of guns and ambush; my experience of this was pretty miserable (compared to the IJN DDs, where I was learning about sneaking about and torps at a similar time), but it did - eventually - make me a less bad DD player. The US line - IMO - is a good teaching line, but less good if you want optimal picks once you've go the hang of how to DD...

 

It's also worth it, if you persevere, to get the high tier US DDs, which are (or at least used to be) pretty decent. Personally, I rather prefer the RN DDs these days, but with them you have the crutch of defensive hydro so they're perhaps a less 'eat your greens' learning experience than the US line?

[GulvkluderGuld]

Since Black is USN and its main asset is the smoke/radar gimmick and guns, do the USN tree to practice the horrible gun arcs.

 

Groningen is portqueen material, it's lack of torps and subpar concealment is just too bad, and although it is good for ambushing planes it is slow and lacks a heal to deal with the result of getting spotted. Forget About It.

 

Torps on Black are better thought of as sea mines and Groningen don't have them, go for lines that teach general DD style which includes but gunboat spamming and DD hunting:

 

- Pan Asian DDs gets radar from tier 8 and otherwise play very similar to USN from tier 8. Easier to grind below 8 due to better guns (Russian ship designs).

 

- British DDs and IJN gunboat line are just awesome strong gunboat DDs without any bad stinkers along the grind. RN dds also are great in CV matches due to many short CD smokes and have very good depth charges too.

 

- Some torpedo line: IJN torps or maybe better yet panEU DDs. The PanEU have no smoke and will teach you positioning if you don't already learn it, plus Halland at tier 10 is a great ship and supership dalarne is ridiculous. Both lines will teach how to use torps.

 

[Panocek]

30 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

It's also worth it, if you persevere, to get the high tier US DDs, which are (or at least used to be) pretty decent. Personally, I rather prefer the RN DDs these days, but with them you have the crutch of defensive hydro so they're perhaps a less 'eat your greens' learning experience than the US line?

Hightier USN destroyers, that being Fletcher and Gearing turned out to be great allrounders, having solid guns and torps. Long lasting smoke have some team utility too. Gearing with UU, having 5.6km detection and still nothing-to-sneeze-at gun output is surprisingly 

 

UK destroyers are better at solo play as well cap contesting and gun duels, though sloooow reloading torps don't help much when sublety is advised.

[Verblonde]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Gearing with UU, having 5.6km detection and still nothing-to-sneeze-at gun output is surprisingly 

Agree - even a tuber like myself can get good value from the UU build Gearing. I also have a soft-spot for Gearing since I got a Dreadnought in her way back (which is entirely ridiculous)...

 

1 hour ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Groningen is portqueen material

This, possibly unless you're extremely good. She does come in handy for mission grinding in Coop, for mere mortals though...

[Panocek]

7 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

This, possibly unless you're extremely good. She does come in handy for mission grinding in Coop, for mere mortals though...

Well, bring your own spotting and smoke sharing slave you can yell at over voice comms, or play her more like a Dido than actual destroyer - don't be first to get shot.

[MoveZig]

Main German line has the hydro + smoke combo, though not nearly Gron's HE damage/fire output, and have torps. For a playstyle that just neglects torps entirely in favor of pew-pew, the main USSR line is most appropriate. The Euro line has similar guns to Gron, at least the last 3-4 of them.

 

There's no line that has radar+smoke yet, but the in-development Euro line is planned to. For other characteristics, obviously the US DD line is closest to Black, also the last 3 PA DDs, which do have radar but no smoke at the same time.

[SeaWolf7]

5 hours ago, Bear__Necessities said:

USN line, Royal Navy line and IJN to Shima line are all good routes to get started on. 

This..

IJN line is a bit more forgiving as you have a bigger stelth torp range than the others lines and torps pack a descent punch too.