Someone explains to me the logic behind the credits earning and expenditure

[Verblonde]

3 minutes ago, Silfuin said:

Care to explain how to make 1 mil per game with DDs? someone said they can print credits just like other ships, but my experience doesn't tell me so.

I used to be a DD main (still would be, if I hadn't withdrawn from Randoms), and - just about - an average player:

• 1 million games don't happen all the time, unless you're very good; for mere mortals (like me) they happen often enough to be a reasonable 'stretch goal'.
• Permanent economic boosters on a ship help, and you should stack them with high level (at least blue) consumable bonuses.
• Concentrate on doing the right damage (as previously mentioned): farming BB's is fun and everything, but you really want to be blowing up DDs (you're more likely to win if you do that too).
• Choose your ship wisely, and make sure you know how to play it; DDs generally up-tier well, if you're able to make full use of them, but not all equally. Adjust how you play when up-tiered; you're still a lower tier ship and need to exercise a modicum of caution.
• Getting up-tiered is important if you want to make a ton of silver: damage done to higher tier opponents is rewarded more than that done to same tier, and a lot more than damaging lower tiers.
• In terms of DDs to pick, I tend to think in terms of things with decent stealth, and - ideally - the ability to hunt other DDs; the RN DDs are good examples, from Lightning up, but there are other decent picks.

[KillStealBoss]

17 minutes ago, Silfuin said:

Just had a game with Groningen: awful game, I made a mistake early on, and got gunned into oblivion.
Result is I earned 100k credits!!!
So back to my original post: I don't get it: with an awesome game on my Kita I got 240k (See above: 139k damage, 5 sunken shipos and kraken award, 2 caps and 7 defenses).
I understand the logic of Wargaming to push people to buy ships and/or premium account with money, but I don't like it at all and it seems to me really really close to "pay to win".
This has nothing to do with being good or bad.

 

Anyway thanks to all for your advice, I'll try to follow what I can, and if there's anything more to say I'm all ears.

That 1 million is with premium account. Also Kita isn’t a premium ship. If it was premium account and on Groningen + blue credit booster (gives +80% credits) it would be a million. And it is has to do with being good or bad, cause even a bad player can have a good game, and sometimes a good player can have a bad game. The issue is that games like you had on Kita you maybe get once per 6 battles, while a good player can do it more consistent 3-4 out of 6 battles and sometimes do 200k dmg with 6 kills. Once I did 240k on my Musashi, with the blue booster and premium account it was 1.7 mln credits netto. 

[ColonelPete]

25 minutes ago, Silfuin said:

I understand the logic of Wargaming to push people to buy ships and/or premium account with money, but I don't like it at all and it seems to me really really close to "pay to win".

Pay as much as you want, you will not win more...

[Verblonde]

1 hour ago, Silfuin said:

Just had a game with Groningen: awful game, I made a mistake early on, and got gunned into oblivion.
Result is I earned 100k credits!!!
So back to my original post: I don't get it: with an awesome game on my Kita I got 240k (See above: 139k damage, 5 sunken shipos and kraken award, 2 caps and 7 defenses).

Some areas to evaluate:

• Groningen is a premium ship, and Kita isn't: the former has a baked-baked in credit earning boost, plus if you look at service costs (https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:The_Economics_of_Battle#Service_cost), you'll note that premiums have half the base service cost that equivalent tier non-premiums do.
• Think about what you were shooting at: if your Kita game mostly involved tearing chunks off BBs, and your Groningen game involved zapping smaller things more, that could easily explain the comparative differential.
• Did you shoot down any planes? Plane kills (even fighters) can provide a surprising boost to earnings.
• Think about what drives rewards: damage. All the other stuff tends to be rewarded rather sparsely; so, if you cap, defend, and spot, it may increase your chances of winning, but it won't necessarily increase your income significantly (I can't actually recall how much this stuff gets rewarded, as it is largely irrelevant).

1 hour ago, Silfuin said:

it seems to me really really close to "pay to win".

There are plenty of rude things that can be said about WG/WOWS, but this isn't one of them (with a possible case to be made for a couple of the old OP premiums that remain as loot box bait, but even that's moot). WG may at times be colossal-emulators-of-Onan, but the game isn't pay-to-win; what it absolutely is though is pay-to-progress-a-lot-faster.

 

You won't win any more or less if you pay money (if you won more for paying money, my WR would probably be in the nineties; suffice it to say, it isn't!), but - assuming you pay for sensible things - you absolutely will progress through the tiers/some missions etc. faster. In some regards, you can actually make a case that the game is pay-to-lose: a common newbie mistake is to buy a high tier premium far too soon, and then repeatedly get one's 4rse handed to one (most of us have done it at least once - mine was the IS6 when it didn't suck years ago in WOT).

[Flaky26]

Před 1 hodinou Silfuin řekl/a:

Anything you can advise me to get besides T6 DDS already mentioned?

There are two other tier IX destroyers.

US Black and USSR Neustrashimy - both are expensive (296 000 coal), but with -25% coupon it can be done.

Both are good ships. Problem is, both require experience with gun destroyers and good situational awareness.

Black has radar + smoke combo, Neustra has superheal. You have to learn, how to use them properly.

 

Like others already suggested, it is better to stay a while on mid tiers, get some experience with such ships and then go up.

 

[KillStealBoss]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

Pay as much as you want, you will not win more...

Nobody is talking about winning here, the main topic is credit income. So yeah, if someone needs more credits then he should pay for premium time, not much way around it. And he meant “pay to win” the “win” is getting credits. 

[hgbn_dk]

It have always been a good advice to earn the credits in T-IV-VI games if you struggle to get a profit in the higher tiers. These games are quick compared to high tier. so even though they yield less credits pr game you can play more in the same timeframe.

[Fediuld]

2 hours ago, Silfuin said:

Care to explain how to make 1 mil per game with DDs? someone said they can print credits just like other ships, but my experience doesn't tell me so.
Just yesterday I had a really good game with Kitakaze: 136k damage, kraken award, 2 caps, 7 defenses ... and yet I managed a "meager" 240k credits.
 So do I have to just accept I need to play cruisers as well or I won't go anywhere?
 And in which case what cruiser shall I get (I already have alaska, but I don't find it much fun to play, I would like something more agile, maybe with smoke to get out of situation where my lack of situational awareness sometimes puts me in) 
About T9 DDs see above: if not Z-44 (assuming I will still be playing when I get to 232k coal) what would be a fun and good Premium DD to buy?

 

Kitakaze is not a premium ship. 

I have Harekaze, which is T8 premium torp DD. With the same blue credit bonus, I get 1mil at around 90K damage against T9-11. 

[Panocek]

2 hours ago, Silfuin said:

Anything you can advise me to get besides T6 DDS already mentioned?

Sadly genuinely good picks were removed from sales because they were just that, good ships. Whats left are ships that are "balanced" but come with hefty asterisks attached to them.

 

2 hours ago, Silfuin said:

In a sense you are right.
I'm just trying to be honest with what I'm willing to to and what I expect, if there's no solution then so be it and I'll just quit playing.

However exploring possible different alternatives before that seems sensible.

 

@OldschoolGaming_YouTubethose are impressive reports, but ... F.Sherman ... I wish I had it, it'll be a long time as it costs 232k coals and I now sit on 25k
Also those credits figures refer to premium account, without it it's down to less than half, and with non premium DDs it would be even less for the same game.
What is interesting is that with BB you got way higher credits than with DD, which appears to confirm that BBs are indeed higher credits printers.

Sherman have effectively the same playstyle as Groningen - gunship, not a destroyer. So if you can't make Groningen work, Sherman isn't going to be better. Also Sherman, like other "special" ships aren't premiums in a sense they don't have increased credit income.

These two can be good ships, but are extremely reliant on teammates... and teamwork is a curse word in Randoms, not unless you bring your own Division with voice chat and people you play with are willing to play around you and your Gron/Sherman.

 

When it comes to earning credits, you can either pay up (premium account, buying lootboxes that MIGHT give you credit boosters) or git gud.

Well, you can keep banging your head against the wall by yoloing Groningen and dying by 4min mark, netting you 50-100k credits per battle, but thats probably off the table

[ColonelPete]

27 minutes ago, KillStealBoss said:

Nobody is talking about winning here, the main topic is credit income. So yeah, if someone needs more credits then he should pay for premium time, not much way around it. And he meant “pay to win” the “win” is getting credits. 

But he was, obviously...

[KillStealBoss]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

But he was, obviously...

He doesn't care about WR. Read all the posts first not one out of context. 

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

5 hours ago, Silfuin said:

 

@OldschoolGaming_YouTubethose are impressive reports, but ... F.Sherman ... I wish I had it, it'll be a long time as it costs 232k coals and I now sit on 25k
Also those credits figures refer to premium account, without it it's down to less than half, and with non premium DDs it would be even less for the same game.
What is interesting is that with BB you got way higher credits than with DD, which appears to confirm that BBs are indeed higher credits printers.

Its just examples. What my advice is. If you wanna earn credits a strong Premium T8-9 is the way to go. Buy that and watch a lot of videos on how to git good with that ship, that is basically the way I gotten good in any of the ships I play. There is now easy fix you can throw money at. But getting a Kidd, Asashio or a Jean Bart and getting really good at it will fix your credits issue. 

 

Gettings Sherman for Coal is great but that requires you being pretty good at T10 DDs, im getting about 8-900 K credits in Sherman each game and its a hell of a fun ship to play. 

[NewHorizons_1]

9 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

If you wanna earn credits a strong Premium T8-9 is the way to go

Or T7 & T8 premiums, with economic bonuses, in Scenarios. Outcome maybe more reliable than result of a random match.

[Silfuin]

First of all forgive me for the little misunderstanding.
When I said the game was appearing to be "pay to win" I didn't mean "win" as in winning games, but as in progressing with unlocking and buying new ships and skilling up captains so that I can have multiple ships to play.

As for Sherman/Groningen I do actually like to play Groningen, and even have decent results (if 50% WR can be considered decent) so I'm pretty confident I would like the Sherman.
What I don't like is being forced to play ONLY Groningen.
Black and Neustrashimy would also be viable.
I'd like Kidd and Asashio, but they can't be bought with coal.

Anyway the point is moot as I can't buy them now not having enough coal.
I guess I will have to stick to Groningen and some T6 Premium DD from the ones mentioned.
The whole point probably can be directly translated in: Is there a way to earn more coal?

Also, permanent economic booster could help, but they cost a lot of dobloons ...

 

I will also get premium time whenever I get it free and make the most out of it.

 

7 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Pay as much as you want, you will not win more...

Absolutely agree, read above what I meant with "pay to win".
 

 

[Wulf_Ace]

Credits you say...

 

To make long story short, you dont grind credits with tier 10 ships.

[KillStealBoss]

31 minutes ago, Silfuin said:

First of all forgive me for the little misunderstanding.
When I said the game was appearing to be "pay to win" I didn't mean "win" as in winning games, but as in progressing with unlocking and buying new ships and skilling up captains so that I can have multiple ships to play.

As for Sherman/Groningen I do actually like to play Groningen, and even have decent results (if 50% WR can be considered decent) so I'm pretty confident I would like the Sherman.
What I don't like is being forced to play ONLY Groningen.
Black and Neustrashimy would also be viable.
I'd like Kidd and Asashio, but they can't be bought with coal.

Anyway the point is moot as I can't buy them now not having enough coal.
I guess I will have to stick to Groningen and some T6 Premium DD from the ones mentioned.
The whole point probably can be directly translated in: Is there a way to earn more coal?

Also, permanent economic booster could help, but they cost a lot of dobloons ...

 

I will also get premium time whenever I get it free and make the most out of it.

 

Absolutely agree, read above what I meant with "pay to win".
 

 

This game is free to play but if you want to progress faster - then you have to pay. It's just like Discord with Nitro or Spotify.

 

You can get high amount of credits but you need to have premium account, have boosters for credits and play it well. You don't even need massive damage, the second screen is Alaska. There's lots of vids how to play Alaska, it's an amazing ship with great AP and good citadel protection, you just need to know where to position so you won't be farmed by HE spam.

[Ymustihaveaname]

2 hours ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

Or T7 & T8 premiums, with an economic bonuses, in Scenarios. Outcome maybe more reliable than result of a random match.

I mean, he already has Massachusetts, what gets more in ops easier than that? But then he has said he doesn't enjoy playing it?

 

(I'm mostly a DD player, but I do play my Massa and find it very good in ops when I'm tired to get a 1300 win for BP & and a few credits at end of day etc I dont want to play more etc....)

[KillStealBoss]

4 minutes ago, Ymustihaveaname said:

I mean, he already has Massachusetts, what gets more in ops easier than that? But then he has said he doesn't enjoy playing it?

 

(I'm mostly a DD player, but I do play my Massa and find it very good in ops when I'm tired to get a 1300 win for BP at end of day etc I dont want to play more etc....)

He's probably overextending and getting punished for that, doesn't know how to position and use the terrain in the map for his advantage. 

[Ymustihaveaname]

23 minutes ago, KillStealBoss said:

He's probably overextending and getting punished for that, doesn't know how to position and use the terrain in the map for his advantage.  

One thing from his stats is he has only played 209 games in a division out of a total of, 2286 played, If you want to earn good credit winning really helps and playing in divs in voice will help that a lot, both to make you stronger, as you can help each other by playing BB/radar CA/DD & by also diving with people who can maybe give you tips and advice on what they think or just talk thoughts with a peer what your plan of you think you should be doing

 

Also, @Silfuin, maybe try out ranked if you want to play DD at T5 DD win the small fast matches, and you can grind out the steel (just the Win rewards every 3 wins even if you dont want to get ranked 1) ie coal x10 and credits in short matches and some of the tech tree DDs are competitive t22/Visby/...depending on who you want to play (I played Maestrale as I needed to grind it)?

[coldocean]

All good advices here, but let's stay honest. I know, that people are obsessed with the idea of money or premium doesn't make life much easier. But it does! We already had that discussion months ago, when in T10 - 1 vs 1 brawl you even made minus, when you are winning the game without having premium time. So the 750k Credits were no price then, they were a compensation to balance your credit sink.

The real issue is credit making was reworked months ago, so making credits at Tier 6 - 8 is even more more comfortable now than at T9 or T10, especially if you are not that great player. Do not invest money into buying a permanent bonus for a tech ship or buying a premium ship. This only affects one ship. If you want to buy something in WoWs, then buy premium time. You can play without premium time, sure. But let's stay honest here: you have to be very picky about what you do in this game. Stumbling through different tech trees and wasting your coal for stuff you never use, that just leads you into a backend.

 

Zitat

You've mentioned Z-44... That is one of the worst destroyers so I'd reconsider that

It is an okayish torpedo boat and there is no other german DD you can get for coal. Also he doesn't like sowjet DDs, so it is not suprising he came on that idea. Meanwhile there is also the Black, but putting 300k coal into one ship would be all-in in his situation without premium. Adding a 43kn trops DD boat with detection to a no-torps DD with detection doesn't make his account really more flexible or grinding more varied. Getting the Anshan is a much lower risk for him, in my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

[Silfuin]

59 minutes ago, KillStealBoss said:

He's probably overextending and getting punished for that, doesn't know how to position and use the terrain in the map for his advantage. 

Yes, probably is that, or I am not able to aim correctly at long distances.
I'll try out some scenario with the Massachussets and see.

 

38 minutes ago, Ymustihaveaname said:

One thing from his stats is he has only played 209 games in a division out of a total of, 2286 played, If you want to earn good credit winning really helps and playing in divs in voice will help that a lot, both to make you stronger, as you can help each other by playing BB/radar CA/DD & by also diving with people who can maybe give you tips and advice on what they think or just talk thoughts with a peer what your plan of you think you should be doing

 

Also, @Silfuin, maybe try out ranked if you want to play DD at T5 DD win the small fast matches, and you can grind out the steel (just the Win rewards every 3 wins even if you dont want to get ranked 1) ie coal x10 and credits in short matches and some of the tech tree DDs are competitive t22/Visby/...depending on who you want to play (I played Maestrale as I needed to grind it)?

Yeah, I am in a dead clan, and at the times I play ther's really noone to team up with.
 

And ... yeah, guys, I'm right here, why talking about "he"?
 

26 minutes ago, coldocean said:

Getting the Anshan is a much lower risk for him, in my opinion.

I'll add that to the list of T6 premium DDs to check out when I'll have the coal.

[FloatingTarget]

The only logic is it exists as a way to hamper making credits to frustrate the player.

[Panocek]

5 hours ago, Silfuin said:

Yes, probably is that, or I am not able to aim correctly at long distances.
I'll try out some scenario with the Massachussets and see.

Alaska is one of the best tier 9s out there and definitely worth looking into how to play her, Massa aged a bit in Randoms, but with some secondary investment is still powerhouse in Operations if you want a little bit of low brain activity action.

 

Still, to see big credit numbers boosters and premium are a must

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

7 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

To make long story short, you dont grind credits with tier 10 ships. 

I don't play anything but tier 10 (usually not techtree ships) and I am at 500 million. Which reminds me @Silfuin did you clean out your inventory? You can sell all your (now useless) camos or stock ship parts - that alone can net you a lot of money.

[ColonelPete]

9 hours ago, Silfuin said:

First of all forgive me for the little misunderstanding.
When I said the game was appearing to be "pay to win" I didn't mean "win" as in winning games, but as in progressing with unlocking and buying new ships and skilling up captains so that I can have multiple ships to play.

It is a bit strange, that I player, who bought credits in the past, complaints about paying players progressing faster...

Apart from this being the economic model of most F2P games.

 

Fun fact, every F2P player starts with multiple ships in this game.

9 hours ago, Silfuin said:

What I don't like is being forced to play ONLY Groningen.

Nobody forces you. It is your choice.

You spend a bucket load of coal in this game, but instead of getting ships, that make you credits, you got captains. That was your choice.