Shikishima or Bourgogne for steel

[Deksi_4]

Hi captains,

Resource coupon soon become available again, and I have enough steel for my first steel ship. I am mainly bb and cruiser player. Because of my work I am almost exclusively  co-op player, but when I get time I play randoms too. I know the playstile between Bourgogne and Shikishima. I dont have Yamato but would like Shiki because of the low service cost and better credit earnings. Bourgogne is in the armory from Decembar 2018 and Shiki from 2020. Since I already have Jean Bart, would it be better to pick up Shiki first with those sweet overmatching guns. What would you pick if you were in my place? Caviat: I dont intend to grind to Yamato soon because I dont have a lot of free time to do the grind. Do you think that any of this two can be retired from the armory? In that case I would take the one which is more likely to be retired. Which of this two have lower skill ceiling and is more fun to play? Thanks in advance for your opinions. 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

Your post reads as if you already decided for the Shikishima and just want some confirmation. I'd say go for Bourgogne instead. Coop are fast games, use faster playing ships.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

For coop doesn't matter.

 

Shiki has the advantage to blap nose in bots. I'd take that one. Bourg takes too much effort to maneuver in coop, bots don't offer as much broadsides as the bots in tier 10 randoms.

 

For any other purpose, do not get Shiki, as it is entirely powercrept by Satsuma. It's the last steel ship I'd buy, today.

[Northern_Nightowl]

Vor 1 Minute, Europizza sagte:

Your post reads as if you already decided for the Shikishima and just want some confirmation. I'd say go for Bourgogne instead. Coop are fast games, use faster playing ships.

Same here. In Coop, you need to put the maximum of weaponry (shells or torpedoes) on the enemy in the shortest possible amount of time. For this, you need a high ship speed and a short reload time.

 

Bourgogne checks in both characteristics: reload boost and speed boost are available. Furthermore, I discovered for myself that the Frenchman is a great crossover between cruiser abilities (fast gunnery) and battleship features (survivability), I'm playing mine mostly like a cruiser, setting fires and getting module damage with HE for long times during a match, using the MBRB for a fast switch to AP when a delicious broadside get presented.

In comparison, the Yamato (which I have, so I'll use it as a stand-in for the not owned Shikishima) is more or less a somewhat static heavy artillery unit which is by far not as nimble as the Bourgogne, neither in terms of manoeuvrability nor in gunnery swiftness (compare the turret rotation times).

 

Regards, Nightowl

[NewHorizons_1]

8 minutes ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

For any other purpose, do not get Shiki, as it is entirely powercrept by Satsuma

Depends on your credit situation though.

The former will make credits, while the latter will lose them.

Especially in co-op, where the few Satsumas I see there don't tend to perform well.

 

34 minutes ago, Deksi_4 said:

Do you think that any of this two can be retired from the armory?

From the vibe on the forum, Bourgogne is probably the most likely to be retired. That'll be my pick for this coupon.

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

2 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

Especially in co-op, where the few Satsumas I see there don't tend to perform well.

That's why I wrote "for coop" and "for any other purpose"

[Cammo1962]

1 hour ago, Deksi_4 said:

Hi captains,

Resource coupon soon become available again, and I have enough steel for my first steel ship. I am mainly bb and cruiser player. Because of my work I am almost exclusively  co-op player, but when I get time I play randoms too. I know the playstile between Bourgogne and Shikishima. I dont have Yamato but would like Shiki because of the low service cost and better credit earnings. Bourgogne is in the armory from Decembar 2018 and Shiki from 2020. Since I already have Jean Bart, would it be better to pick up Shiki first with those sweet overmatching guns. What would you pick if you were in my place? Caviat: I dont intend to grind to Yamato soon because I dont have a lot of free time to do the grind. Do you think that any of this two can be retired from the armory? In that case I would take the one which is more likely to be retired. Which of this two have lower skill ceiling and is more fun to play? Thanks in advance for your opinions. 

I would go for the Bourgogne and it might soon vanish from the steel section for good while the Shika wil be there for a while.

[Benaulim]

For coop Bourgogne all the way. Enhance her speed and race straight in. Just make sure you're not the prime target from the start when doing so (except when you're there to farm potential damage, of course). Enjoy driving by closely to avoid torpedo hits and break through, eventually go straight for the CV. In the Shikishima you'll almost always will be late on the battlefield.

[arttuperkunas]

I don't understand why you would want any BB for co-op. No matter how fast you are, the marceaus and yolo emilios will still get to the enemy before you.

[Northern_Nightowl]

Vor 51 Minuten, arttuperkunas sagte:

I don't understand why you would want any BB for co-op. No matter how fast you are, the marceaus and yolo emilios will still get to the enemy before you.

BB specific missions or farming potential damage are IMHO valid reasons to use this ship type, besides a plain grind of a line, for a Co-op main.

 

Regards, Nightowl

[NewHorizons_1]

1 hour ago, arttuperkunas said:

I don't understand why you would want any BB for co-op. No matter how fast you are, the marceaus and yolo emilios will still get to the enemy before you.

That doesn't happen all the time though.

And when it does, it can pay to look around to another flank to see if there's a nice juicy broadside cruiser waiting to be citadelled.

[Seraphice]

personally I would go for bourgogne because she is more of a unique playstyle than shikishima.
There are ways to experience shikishima through yamato or satsuma, or even incomparable if its about the big guns, but the combination of reload booster and the increased speed for bourgogne is what makes her quite unique

 

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[Ronchabale]

When coupon lands I will have the same choice

I have Musashi, Yamato and Satsuma so one more deosn´t make much sense

Incomparable or Bourgogne..

Pretty sure that I will go for Bourgogne

[Hirohito]

4 hours ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Shiki has the advantage to blap nose in bots. I'd take that one. Bourg takes too much effort to maneuver in coop, bots don't offer as much broadsides as the bots in tier 10 randoms.

Far more important is getting to the bots as fast as possible, because the typical coop match lasts for just a few minutes before the game is over.
Thus if you're stuck in your spawn still trying to accelerate while the DDs and cruisers are already engaging, you're gonna have a bad time if you're looking for any action.
Bourgogne all the way in that case.

Edit: That being said, spending steel on a BB if you're planning to play mostly coop is a waste imo. BBs already struggle to get anything done there, so if anything I'd rather just get a fast cruiser since you mention that you like cruisers as well. There's a reason why whenever there is a citadel hits mission, I fire up my Henri IV rather than a BB in coop to farm those ribbons.

[Ronchabale]

8 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

Edit: That being said, spending steel on a BB if you're planning to play mostly coop is a waste imo. BBs already struggle to get anything done there, so if anything I'd rather just get a fast cruiser since you mention that you like cruisers as well. There's a reason why whenever there is a citadel hits mission, I fire up my Henri IV rather than a BB in coop to farm those ribbons.

There isn´t that much else to choose from

Ragnar, Austin, Plymouth and Stalingrad 

Austin might be effective in coop

[Max_Kammerer]

17 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

Far more important is getting to the bots as fast as possible, because the typical coop match lasts for just a few minutes before the game is over.
Thus if you're stuck in your spawn still trying to accelerate while the DDs and cruisers are already engaging, you're gonna have a bad time if you're looking for any action.
Bourgogne all the way in that case.

Edit: That being said, spending steel on a BB if you're planning to play mostly coop is a waste imo. BBs already struggle to get anything done there, so if anything I'd rather just get a fast cruiser since you mention that you like cruisers as well. There's a reason why whenever there is a citadel hits mission, I fire up my Henri IV rather than a BB in coop to farm those ribbons.

From this point of view Salem is exceptional for coop... 

[22cm]

4 hours ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Bots don't offer as much broadsides as the bots in tier 10 randoms.

True

[mdjmcnally]

Would probably go Bourgogne if going with with either,

 

have mushashi and hammy so not sure what shikishima would bring for me.

 

 

[NewHorizons_1]

52 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

There's a reason why whenever there is a citadel hits mission, I fire up my Henri IV rather than a BB in coop to farm those ribbons.

I tend to use Marblehead for that, knowing that the co-op MM will probably mirror the team.

[NewHorizons_1]

33 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

There isn´t that much else to choose from

Ragnar, Austin, Plymouth and Stalingrad 

Austin might be effective in coop

Plymouth is my only steel ship (so far) and it does fine in co-op.

Great utility (smoke + hydro + radar) and great volume of fire - I've taken 11k chunks out of broadside BBs by firing at the upper belt.

Downside is the slow turret traverse and (typical British CL) fragility but the latter adds the risk/reward excitement.

I don't see many Austins in co-op, so it hard to say. But in theory it should be suitable.

[Deksi_4]

1 hour ago, Hirohito said:

Far more important is getting to the bots as fast as possible, because the typical coop match lasts for just a few minutes before the game is over.
Thus if you're stuck in your spawn still trying to accelerate while the DDs and cruisers are already engaging, you're gonna have a bad time if you're looking for any action.
Bourgogne all the way in that case.

Edit: That being said, spending steel on a BB if you're planning to play mostly coop is a waste imo. BBs already struggle to get anything done there, so if anything I'd rather just get a fast cruiser since you mention that you like cruisers as well. There's a reason why whenever there is a citadel hits mission, I fire up my Henri IV rather than a BB in coop to farm those ribbons.

You are right mate, but all other steel cruisers are almost all light cruisers that need skilled hands in order to farm damage, which in Randoms I have yet too learn. All cruisers for steel are good but high skill ceiling. Only one is easier to play Stalingrad, but I have already Moskva so because of that I was looking at bbs, Shiki or Bourg. I will probably go with Bourg. 

[Deksi_4]

1 hour ago, Ronchabale said:

There isn´t that much else to choose from

Ragnar, Austin, Plymouth and Stalingrad 

Austin might be effective in coop

All of this you mentioned are great in co-op but not for me yet🙂high skill ceiling ships which are hard to play for most average and below average players like me. 

[Deksi_4]

1 hour ago, Max_Kammerer said:

From this point of view Salem is exceptional for coop... 

I already have Salem. It is my most played cruiser of all. It is a blast in co-op. I had in past good games in her in Randoms too. But Salem id all about map positioning. It is map dependant cruiser and it is almost imposible to open water in Salem, bleeds speed like hell in turns. Salem needs patiente and experience in Randoms. I suggest everyone to get Salem for coal. Super heal makes you imune to fires. Salem is great. I am siting at 4825168 HP in Salem 

[NewHorizons_1]

Just now, Deksi_4 said:

All of this you mentioned are great in co-op but not for me yet🙂high skill ceiling ships which are hard to play for most average and below average players like me. 

If you can do well in co-op with the tech tree British CLs you'll do fine with Plymouth.

Ship & gun handling (and lack of robustness) are similar to Edinburgh & Neptune.

One of the reasons I chose Plym was I quite like that class (I'm mainly play PvE) and it was useful in training up my commanders.

The only thing that didn't quite fit was when I was training up my Minotaur commander who doesn't have (nor need) the turret traverse skill which is useful on Plymouth.

Other commanders, like from Fiji, work fine though.

[Deksi_4]

1 hour ago, 22cm said:

True

Depends of the reds and mm. Now bots in co-op evade torps better than before, and better than a lot of players in Randoms. Every day I see a lot of players killed by bots in co-op on all tiers.