WG and "balance" two meanings incompatible with eachother.

[Anthoniusii]

For almost 10 years we saw that play of unballanced game in world of tanks and their 1st excuse was that they were several teams prepairing items (tanks) separated from eachother. The result was to have tier 7 tanks with firepower of tier 9!

We hoped that the developing team of World of Warships woould learn from that lesson and would avoid the same mistakes.

We were so naive! 7 years later we have a new branch of light cruisers for Japan . So?

WoWs team took the unballanve path the opposite side than the one of WoT.

A freash example: Omono that is a tier 7 ship and Konigsberg that is a tier 5 light cruiser of Germany.

Both have some similarities in their main guns like the 16 km max range .

The paradox is that Konigsberg has 150 mm guns and Omono (a later developed project aka with better expirience in armament) has 155mm guns.

The paradox is not the difference of loading time (K 7.5 sec and O double than that) but the penatration and damage their guns can deliver.

Konigsberg 150 mm guns penetrate 38 mm of armor while Omono's 155 mm guns only 26 mm of armor!!!! Damn I lost the physics lesson in my highschool its seams. Konigsberg 150 mm guns cause damage 3900 while Omono's 155mm guns cause only 3300 ... Can a developer (from those that apear as historians too in streams and videos) explain to us how later technology guns with bigger caliber cause less damage than older guns with less caliber?

Because if that would be part of physics then Battleships should use only machne guns because according to WG tyhe smaller the caliber the bigest the damage it does!

[Yosha_AtaIante]

its been so long, as you personally stated and you still try to apply historical values to WG balancing? Physics in an arcade game?

[endlessBoogie]

this is a fantasy-mmo, just look at the soviet ships

[KillStealBoss]

Ok but Omono has much more usable torps, unlike the 6km around island torps that Konigsberg and Nurnberg have. And the alpha on German HE is bad, the fire chance of the German HE without IFHE is similar to IJN ones with IFHE. I don't see the IJN light cruisers to be bad or hard to play, unlike the Italian DDs. 

[ColonelPete]

17 minutes ago, Anthoniusii said:

Konigsberg 150 mm guns penetrate 38 mm of armor while Omono's 155 mm guns only 26 mm of armor!!!! Damn I lost the physics lesson in my highschool its seams. Konigsberg 150 mm guns cause damage 3900 while Omono's 155mm guns cause only 3300 ... Can a developer (from those that apear as historians too in streams and videos) explain to us how later technology guns with bigger caliber cause less damage than older guns with less caliber?

Because if that would be part of physics then Battleships should use only machne guns because according to WG tyhe smaller the caliber the bigest the damage it does!

And Worcester guns on Tier X pen 30mm...

Congratulations on playing the game for years over thousands on battles and never learning the features of the KM CL line

And further congratulations on mixing up AP and HE shells which make your argument even more ridiculous...

[Karasu_Browarszky]

So this is why experience counts for nothing.

[lafeel]

What's this ballance you speak of? Surely something different from balance

[evil_communist_from_ussr]

wargaming is no longer about balance, at least in this game!
check out the latest patch! only one word everywhere: BUY!
find at least 1 point about balance!

[Karasu_Browarszky]

18 minutes ago, lafeel said:

What's this ballance you speak of? Surely something different from balance

 

Perhaps he meant ballast? Like us veteran players.

[stefanorgano]

Omono HE are way more powerful than crappy Konigsberg HE, which gets better pen to compensate for anemic alpha and dreadful fire chances. And Omono has 12 guns, better torps and decent AA.

 

Of course next patch is about buying, it's Christmas, WG need us to give them some gifts, right? Nothing strange there

[WorthyOpponent]

All german ships get 1/4 HE pen instead of the usual 1/6 and give away HE alpha in exchange. So it's not really fair to compare the two. In BBs it's even more pathetic, I think it's like 4000. 

To be frank, I didn't play the new japanese cruisers, but ever since the captain rework no CL has been enjoyable really. So I don't understand why anyone would find this surprising. 

[Anthoniusii]

Many of you are missing the point of this comparison. Some became ironic because of my spelling mistakes not having any argument to confront the comparison.

The Comparison is not for the guns themselvs -if they would belong to ships of the same tier) but the ships they use them.

1. Either Konigsberg has the right firepower according to its guns and the tier it plays and that means Omono is underpowered and destroys any balance in tier 7 ships.
2. Either Omonohas the right firepower according to its guns and the tier it plays and that means than Kongsberg is overpowered and destroys any sense of balance in tier 5 ships.

They can not be right both of them because we compare a tier 5 ship and a tier 7 one that is inferior to the tier 5 ship. Does this make sense?

[MarChil]

As WG stated before: "There are so many ships we can't balance it, but just have some fun" They aren't even pretending anymore, they've given up on it and are just YOLO'ing their way through it all, lost in their own web of lies, incomprehensible mechanics and complete lack of vision.

[lup3s]

24 minutes ago, Anthoniusii said:

Many of you are missing the point of this comparison. Some became ironic because of my spelling mistakes not having any argument to confront the comparison.

The Comparison is not for the guns themselvs -if they would belong to ships of the same tier) but the ships they use them.

1. Either Konigsberg has the right firepower according to its guns and the tier it plays and that means Omono is underpowered and destroys any balance in tier 7 ships.
2. Either Omonohas the right firepower according to its guns and the tier it plays and that means than Kongsberg is overpowered and destroys any sense of balance in tier 5 ships.

They can not be right both of them because we compare a tier 5 ship and a tier 7 one that is inferior to the tier 5 ship. Does this make sense?

 

How exactly is the firepower of the Konigsberg overpowered to that of the Omono ?

The Konigsberg has less shells per salvo, less alpha damage per HE shell, and less fire chance per HE shell; it does get a faster reload and a higher penetration for the HE shell, the latter being one of the characteristics of the KM tech tree.

 

You can find info about HE penetration here :

 

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_Penetration#HE_penetration

 

Most interesting is probably this :

Quote

The formula for calculating this penetration value depends on a penetration coefficient based on the nation and type of ship. The default coefficient is 1/6th of the shell's diameter for most ships, but 1/4th for most British battleships, certain German cruisers, and certain German battleships. Cruisers from Tier VIII-X with caliber of 150-155mm enjoys 1/5th HE penetration. Additionally, Japanese ships with 100mm main and secondary guns have special penetration value of 30 mm.

If the armor is greater than this HE penetration value the shell shatters; if the armor is less or equal this value the shell penetrates.

Quote

HE Penetration Coefficient	Guns/Ships Affected
30mm specific penetration	100mm Type 98 main guns of Akizuki, Kitakaze, Harugumo 100mm Type 98 Secondary guns of various IJN ships such as Zao, Azuma, Kii, Iwami & Shikishima
1/4th penetration	German Battleship Main Guns 150mm+ German Cruiser Main Guns 128mm+ German Destroyer Main Guns 105mm, 128mm & 150mm German Secondaries British Battleship Main Guns (except Warspite, Hood, Collingwood, Renown '44, Incomparable, the Indefatigable—St. Vincent tech tree line) 234mm British Cruiser Main Guns of Cheshire, Drake & Goliath 234mm Secondary guns of Atlântico
1/5th penetration	150-155mm Main Guns of Tier VIII-X Cruisers (Including the 155mm guns of CA Mogami) 150mm main guns of Tromp
1/6th penetration	All other ships

 

Konigsberg falls in the category "1/4th penetration".

Omono falls in the category "1/6th penetration".

[ColonelPete]

32 minutes ago, Anthoniusii said:

They can not be right both of them because we compare a tier 5 ship and a tier 7 one that is inferior to the tier 5 ship. Does this make sense?

But you do not do that. You just look at guns and then only part of them, completly ignoring ship alpha damage, DPM and fire chance. You basicly show us that you have no understanding of ship balance in the game.

Omono does more damage and sinks more ships per battle than Königsberg, despite fighting tougher opponents.

[Ronchabale]

The correct word is balans, doesn´t actually mean "balance" it´s more of a sales related term

[Wulf_Ace]

Omono is mostly built around torps not guns. Comparing them makes zero sense.

 

Superships are things that wargaming made a mistake just beacouse they had no idea how to further develop the game. 

[Profilus]

2 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

Superships are things that wargaming made a mistake just beacouse they had no idea how to further develop the game. 

No, they are second part of original Naval Training Centre which was broken to two parts: Research Bureau and supersips.

[Pandafaust]

22 hours ago, Anthoniusii said:

Many of you are missing the point of this comparison. Some became ironic because of my spelling mistakes not having any argument to confront the comparison.

The Comparison is not for the guns themselvs -if they would belong to ships of the same tier) but the ships they use them.

1. Either Konigsberg has the right firepower according to its guns and the tier it plays and that means Omono is underpowered and destroys any balance in tier 7 ships.
2. Either Omonohas the right firepower according to its guns and the tier it plays and that means than Kongsberg is overpowered and destroys any sense of balance in tier 5 ships.

They can not be right both of them because we compare a tier 5 ship and a tier 7 one that is inferior to the tier 5 ship. Does this make sense?

In fairness, it's quite easy to miss the point of the comparison as it's not at all clear. Omono is a higher tier ship, and has more guns, stronger alpha, dpm, firestarting ability (and ofc torps). Konigsberg fires faster, and as per its national flavour has high HE pen, and good AP damage. What's meant to be surprising about that? If we compare it to RN light cruisers I'd expect them to have better AP dpm, Soviet cruisers would have faster/flatter shell arcs and associated AP pen.

[Fansadox]

Include the OP bs Tromp with airplane strikes that can keep coming from without ever seeying the ship.. plus the Frankenstein bs ships that will be released in the near future that brings the amount of cvs to 2,5 in games… 

 

I wonder if they even play their own games. 

[Pandafaust]

2 minutes ago, Fansadox said:

Include the OP bs Tromp with airplane strikes that can keep coming from without ever seeying the ship.. plus the Frankenstein bs ships that will be released in the near future that brings the amount of cvs to 2,5 in games… 

 

I wonder if they even play their own games. 

Is that really any more OP than almost literally every other destroyer which can do the same with torpedoes?  To be fair I've only seen one Tromp in game so far, and it got blown out of the water by our klèber.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

4 hours ago, Fansadox said:

I wonder if they even play their own games.

They usually said they would, but stat pages showed they didn't... and weren't any good anyway.

[ColonelPete]

30 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

They usually said they would, but stat pages showed they didn't... and weren't any good anyway.

You should look at more stats.