Thank you WG for this pleasant gaming experience

[lup3s]

4 hours ago, Europizza said:

Thats pretty weird, because it is not the same at all. Playing to grind tokens to purchase loot and lootboxes is nothing like raiding servers for other players loot. That's actually core pvp, no matter what you morally make of it. The token grinds dont need pvp, it is shoehorned into shooter pvp games as a revenue model.

 

We are drifting off. Lets not continue reaching.

 

Yeah you're right; it misconnected in my head.

[Figment]

I'm not sure how you can go and blame WG for the incompetence of random players. :/ If anything I'm glad it's more of a challenge. Not in the least because it will force those players who can't play well to learn and adapt rather than grind easy victories and then go into any PvP game and think the enemy would roll over as easily. It will become less toxic from their frame of reference as if they know that bots can already beat them, they'll realise sooner that humans can as well. And if they see bots focus fire, they might learn that's good practice.

[lup3s]

1 hour ago, Figment said:

It will become less toxic from their frame of reference as if they know that bots can already beat them, they'll realise sooner that humans can as well. And if they see bots focus fire, they might learn that's good practice.

 

Wishful thinking imo ... I think many simply don't care about winning, or learning, or improving ... 

[Figment]

19 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

Wishful thinking imo ... I think many simply don't care about winning, or learning, or improving ... 

Sure. :)

 

But one can dream. Dreams of noobs focusing fire on the low health ships rather than the full health ones... Dreams of noobs not getting needlessly into crossfires and taking on too many ships at once. Dreams of noobs not rushing into the thick of things like I love to do.

 

 

...Wait. D:

[Captain_82]

5 hours ago, Figment said:

I'm not sure how you can go and blame WG for the incompetence of random players. :/ If anything I'm glad it's more of a challenge. Not in the least because it will force those players who can't play well to learn and adapt rather than grind easy victories and then go into any PvP game and think the enemy would roll over as easily. It will become less toxic from their frame of reference as if they know that bots can already beat them, they'll realise sooner that humans can as well. And if they see bots focus fire, they might learn that's good practice.

 

You mean the challenge when almost the entire team suicided seven (!!) minutes into the game (see Screen below) ?? I was not the last one to go down, this time it was our Tier6 CV Béarn.

I can send you the replay.

 

Where is the learning and adaptation in that?

These average guys do it repeatedly or at least that would be my take on it.

 

I have to say it again: I experienced "countless" failteams, mostly in Aegis but also in Narai (repeatedly), Hermes, Cherry Blossom ... I cannot in any way attribute the current Ops (here: Aegis and Narai) with words like to learn and adapt because that isn`t happening.

I`ve stated it in my initial post: Players are so determined to failure, again and again and again ... there is neither learning nor adaptation in Aegis/Narai!

 

In Narai it is mindboggling to observe these potato BBs not only charging into the enemy waves but to see them taking up a position inside the harbour despite being heavily outnumbered.

I reckon I have seen only one BB park before the harbour (and that match was definitely lost by that point) ...

 

The average potato just can`t think even two minutes in advance.

 

[Ymustihaveaname]

On 12/6/2022 at 7:48 PM, KillStealBoss said:

Tbh it's not WG's fault that the playerbase is like that. You can't fix stupid people that don't care, they just play to pew pew some ships. 

Im mean WG cant fix the players, (well they could make the lower T an easier environment for newer players to learn in and not messy complicated double CV T4 games that nobody would want to be in or understand what was happening...) but they could add a real MM to ensure that if you stay in the queue for an extra 30 sec or even 1 min you get a team more at your skill level?

[Figment]

Just now, Captain_82 said:

You mean the challenge when the entire team suicided seven (!!) minutes into the game (see Screen below) ??

I can send you the replay.

 

Where is the learning and adaptation in that?

These average guys do it repeatedly or at least that would be my take on it.

 

I have to say it again: I experienced "countless" failteams, mostly in Aegis but also in Narai, Hermes, Cherry Blossom ... I cannot in any way attribute the current Ops (here: Aegis) with words like to learn and adapt because that isn`t happening.

I`ve stated it in my initial post: Players are so determined to failure, again and again and again ... there is neither learning nor adaptation, at least in Aegis!

I'm not sure what you're on about. That match is an experience gaining session. These players learn at least the type of dangers that will be thrown against them in each stage of the battle, so next time they might be better prepared. Should be, but in practice, might be. Every time they play it they should get a bit better at it eventually. You don't know how often they played these specific ops. You don't know if they learned anything. You can however, teach them something. That's what I do.

 

You learn from each match. Especially if there's people in it that can tell them what they did wrong, what dangers to expect next (map clicking before something happens helps). One of the key issues these players have is situational awareness. Help them with that. Backseat drive if you have to. Do not expect miracles.

 

But it's in nobody's interest to suck, so they'll be happy to take advice, once they understand they're not gods among men. Help people by issueing predictions on what comes next, ask for support, mark targets, give orders if you have to, but try to do it such that you're not abrassive or belittling. Try to motivate.

 

Of course, you won't win them all and in some cases they'll suck or have a language barrier, but generally people want to learn because it's in their interest. They do have to know they need to.

2 minutes ago, Ymustihaveaname said:

Im mean WG cant fix the players, (well they could make the lower T an easier environment for newer players to learn in and not messy complicated double CV T4 games that nobody would want to be in or understand what was happening...) but they could add a real MM to ensure that if you stay in the queue for an extra 30 sec or even 1 min you get a team more at your skill level?

Do you always design for yourself or do you also consider the people you want to segregate from the rest because you find them... Not as prime material as yourself?

 

Segregating people of lower skill level to stick together and have generally bad experiences and nobody to learn from is not good design. You might now and then be stuck with people where you're by far the most experienced player in the room, but with great experience comes great responsibility. :)

[Ymustihaveaname]

8 minutes ago, Figment said:

Do you always design for yourself or do you also consider the people you want to segregate from the rest because you find them... Not as prime material as yourself? 

 

Segregating people of lower skill level to stick together and have generally bad experiences and nobody to learn from is not good design. You might now and then be stuck with people where you're by far the most experienced player in the room, but with great experience comes great responsibility. :)

I dont think it would be bad as soon as you had a real MM would have a defacto MM "score" for each player and could just use that to balance the bot's strength level up or down, so everybody gets a challenging but completable experience?

 

ie like the T6-8 ships balancing just balance on player average WR or something as well? (you would not even really need a MM come to think of it you could just do it now with any team, but it might lead to less balanced results like with matches with t6 and t8 ships in same ops that are hard on they T6 if they dont play safe...)

[KillStealBoss]

1 hour ago, Ymustihaveaname said:

Im mean WG cant fix the players, (well they could make the lower T an easier environment for newer players to learn in and not messy complicated double CV T4 games that nobody would want to be in or understand what was happening...) but they could add a real MM to ensure that if you stay in the queue for an extra 30 sec or even 1 min you get a team more at your skill level?

Not enough players for that. We are having 17-20k online not 80k

[Fansadox]

Does anyone still play operations? They managed to ruin it as well like many other things… 

[hgbn_dk]

15 minutes ago, Fansadox said:

Does anyone still play operations? They managed to ruin it as well like many other things… 

No they didn't, think ops is fine as is. My favourite game mode. Challenging but not to hard, before the rework they was to easy, like they are no longer a walk in the park and you actually have to work for it

[Figment]

1 hour ago, Ymustihaveaname said:

I dont think it would be bad as soon as you had a real MM

There is a "real" MM already, it's just not what you want it to be because other considerations than your personal pleasure have been involved. That doesn't make it bad design, in fact, I'd say it's better than what you suggest. The use of the term "Real" is used as a denigrating put down towards the people who developed it and that's fine if you want to talk about gimmicks of ships in the Random and Ranked matches MM, but it's not fair to them in this case. 

1 hour ago, Ymustihaveaname said:

would have a defacto MM "score" for each player and could just use that to balance the bot's strength level up or down, so everybody gets a challenging but completable experience?

Why rig games to make it easier? That's not fair to the better players either, plus, there's not enough people to do that. These missions could however be given  a difficulty rating and when people drop in they could select the difficulty of the mission they want. Of course, rewards should scale.

[Captain_82]

2 hours ago, Figment said:

I'm not sure what you're on about. That match is an experience gaining session. These players learn at least the type of dangers that will be thrown against them in each stage of the battle, so next time they might be better prepared. Should be, but in practice, might be. Every time they play it they should get a bit better at it eventually. You don't know how often they played these specific ops. You don't know if they learned anything. You can however, teach them something. That's what I do.

 

You learn from each match. Especially if there's people in it that can tell them what they did wrong, what dangers to expect next (map clicking before something happens helps). One of the key issues these players have is situational awareness. Help them with that. Backseat drive if you have to. Do not expect miracles.

 

But it's in nobody's interest to suck, so they'll be happy to take advice, once they understand they're not gods among men. Help people by issueing predictions on what comes next, ask for support, mark targets, give orders if you have to, but try to do it such that you're not abrassive or belittling. Try to motivate.

 

Of course, you won't win them all and in some cases they'll suck or have a language barrier, but generally people want to learn because it's in their interest. They do have to know they need to.

Do you always design for yourself or do you also consider the people you want to segregate from the rest because you find them... Not as prime material as yourself?

 

I did all of what you said a thousand times in the past.
But there was a point when I gave up.

 

The average player - in my opinion - doesn`t want to learn.
They come up with excuses rather than to admit that they sucked or could have played better as suggested. Yes I`m talking about very specific recent experiences. And no, I wasn`t very belittling when writing them PMs.

Don`t get me wrong, I still give hints occasionally ... normally ppl just ignore them.

 

Here are two more failteams; the one in Killer Whale was really special. One of the worst I have ever seen.

I single-handedly took out most of the enemies in the harbour + the reinforcements as well.

I did that without any modules or Commander skills.

Alas my team just died before the RV, failing to go there in time.

Despite my pings.

Replay is attached.

 

20221208_162120_PBSC208-Albemarle_s01_NavalBase.wowsreplay