0.4.0 DD's.

[Boevebeest]

Is this the way they are really heading with the DD's?

 

DD's have already a hard time with all the nerfs on their torpedo's.

 

Now they reduce smokescreen from 60 seconds to 20?

And give the DD counterships the ability to see through smoke!

 

You need to get close and thats hard enough. You have near to none selfdefense, and that little you have gets nerfed right into the ground.

It feels like the fail with arty, oh yes I went there.

 

Make a insane high alpha weapon but make it frustrating to play so not to many players will play them. Balance by discouraging players to use it.

If people complain about DD torps, listen what their complaints about them are. Reduce the alpha damage a bit, don't make it harder to hit with them.

And I don't care about historical accuracy, nice but first and foremost this is a game.

[rigawe]

With the nerf of the concealment and the number of plan that can spot you in high tier, I'd rather be in a japanese cruiser than any DD for now at least I have gun and I can play with torpedos.

[Takeda92]

They also nerfed DDs HE a little.

[mtm78]

I had not played top tier DD's in CBT but I played both Gearing and Shimakaze on PT as it was really not bad at all. At higher tiers the reload forces you to stay further away anyway, sonar... well I don't think I ever been spotted with the use of sonar. Also cruisers have to sacrifice their AAA burst, not many will do this. 

 

The bad things for DD's are the limited amount of smoke charges ( 2 normal, 3 with captain skill ) and the 20s smoke duration. Perma smoking is no longer possible ( and I don't mean in capping, but in holding down an entire flank of bb's and ca's with two dd's smoking in turns and scaring them off with torpedo attacks ). 

[Krogort]

But they're small tiny Destroyers ! of course they must be subpar to the almighty Battleships and Carriers !

 

[Boevebeest]

High tier DD's at least have the torp range, especially the IJN ones. But that is absolutely no skill, just the good old spray and pray.

 

I used to have between 4 and 10 torp hits evrey game. now half the games I have not even one torp hit. And that is without the smoke nerf.

 

USN mid tier DD's need to get close due to their range, even withing secondary gun range of BB's.

They sneak up, take position, move in and fire torps, turn around and under cover of smoke escape. At least this is the theory.

All the planes already make it hard enough, easy dodging of your torps even harder, if they nerf the smoke like the tested and give the CA's the possibility to see through the smoke? I don't see how DD's are viable in this set up.

[Mister_Greek]

Well i just had a game with the Yama and an enemy DD started firing torps at me for 12 whole minutes without being spotted (Avoided them almost all). I had to close in and for the rest of the game he just popped and popped smoke again being perma-invisible.

 

Take into account that even after a DD stops popping smoke,smoke takes time to dispense providing invisibility for another 10-25 secs (depending of the type of the destroyer).I spotted the enemy DD after about 11-12 minutes (!) in battle in which he fired at least 7-8 spreads,the last of which was completely unavoidable due to receiving enemy fire and having to take evasive actions. 

 

Conclusion: I have no problem with torpedo dmg or range but the fact that for 7 whole minutes the enemy DD (Shimakaze) was invisible due to his smoke and firing torp after torp was insane.Now for the changes,20 secs seems a bit low,not to say overdone ,i would suggest 30-40.I havent checked the new defence system of CA so i dont have an opinion here...

[Quinzer]

i play mostly DDs, and i have to say that i use the smoke rarely, only if i really need it, so i don't rely on it and in the 0.4 Test i had fun even with 20sec smoke, and i was still able to kill and to stay undetected when needed

[Xevious_Red]

Tested the sonar in PT. It's only available on tier 6+, you need to drop the AAA ability in order to take it.

Since it's range is very limited (3.48 for ships, 2.52 for torps), it's uses are limited too.

 

You need to basically go into the smoke screen in order to use it, and the DD really needs to be sat still. If its moving then finding it is more luck than judgement. Since the DD can see you coming, then its faily foolish for them to be found sat still. Now this distupts the DD obviously, but it's not a death sentence. Even if you do find them, being 3.48km away from a DD is usually a bad thing as you end up with a horde of torps coming at you from almost point blank.

 

It is kind of useful for checking around corners to avoid the suprise of poking your nose out and eating a broadside of torps, but a bit of caution when exiting behind islands renders this unneeded.

 

Personally I won't be using it on anything apart from the atlanta, the AAA is just a more useful skill imo and even then the atlanta benefits lots from the AAA.

[Quinzer]

Tested the sonar in PT. It's only available on tier 6+, you need to drop the AAA ability in order to take it.

Since it's range is very limited (3.48 for ships, 2.52 for torps), it's uses are limited too.

 

You need to basically go into the smoke screen in order to use it, and the DD really needs to be sat still. If its moving then finding it is more luck than judgement. Since the DD can see you coming, then its faily foolish for them to be found sat still. Now this distupts the DD obviously, but it's not a death sentence. Even if you do find them, being 3.48km away from a DD is usually a bad thing as you end up with a horde of torps coming at you from almost point blank.

 

It is kind of useful for checking around corners to avoid the suprise of poking your nose out and eating a broadside of torps, but a bit of caution when exiting behind islands renders this unneeded.

 

Personally I won't be using it on anything apart from the atlanta, the AAA is just a more useful skill imo and even then the atlanta benefits lots from the AAA.

 

it's true, the sonar on PT was not very usefull, and i doubt it's a real upgrade for cruisers or a nerf to destroyers, AA ability is much more usefull

[Bigglesof206]

 and for the rest of the game he just popped and popped smoke again being perma-invisible.

 

Bit difficult to accomplish with only 3 smokes maximum. I would suggest he was spamming torps from beyond detection range, ie he was greater than 7.6km from you....at which range you'll only get huit if you sail in a predictable manner for several minutes at a time. 

 

My beef, as someone who enjoys DD play, is that these nerfs are all cumulative - we now have more spotter planes airborne, a reduction in defensive fire (HE), and the average BB can turn 90 degrees in the time it takes our torps to travel 2-3 km....a whole bunch of small nerfs to DDs, buffs to BBs, is making it very difficult to operate a DD imo. When driving a BB I used to be very wary of DDs as I knew how dangerous they could be, now I'm far less worried when I see one....

[Vaderan]

As always, people only recognize the (negative) changes to their favourite class! It doesn´t require a lot to find "XX class has been nerfed to death" topics. However, all you see is people complaining about how their favourite toy has been "completly and utterly nerfed to death and made absolutely unplayable", with tons of threats that the players won´t spend any money to this (insert most hated class in her) favouring game, until (insert most favourite class in here) has been buffed again to be at least on pair.

 

I´ve played from tier 1 to tier 10 during the OBT weekend, and neither class felt superior or inferior. I saw CVs instakilling BBs with a single torpedo plane attack, DDs controlling complete areas of the map and (in case of the tier X Japanese DD) collecting ridulous ammounts of torpedo hits and kills while never been spotted. BBs, oneshotting others or failing to do any damage at all on inferior targets. 0.4.0 delivered changes to all classes, to upgrades and skills, and with those, ships could be specialized in various ways.

 

DD players claim, their ships are useless now. CV players say the same. CA players aswell. BB players complain ever since their main batteries have been rendered useless several patches ago (not in terms of potential damage, but of accuracy). So, since all groups complain, i wonder, which class is playable at all? Of course, all other classes except the prefered one the complaining player prefers...

This is no "whoever cries the most, receives the biggest sweets" contest! This is closed beta, and WG tries hard to achieve the impossible: to balance 4 classes of warships, which were never meant to be balanced. So, as a natural result, whatever is the current state of balance, any class has to suffer and accept compromises...

[Quinzer]

 

Bit difficult to accomplish with only 3 smokes maximum. I would suggest he was spamming torps from beyond detection range, ie he was greater than 7.6km from you....at which range you'll only get huit if you sail in a predictable manner for several minutes at a time. 

 

My beef, as someone who enjoys DD play, is that these nerfs are all cumulative - we now have more spotter planes airborne, a reduction in defensive fire (HE), and the average BB can turn 90 degrees in the time it takes our torps to travel 2-3 km....a whole bunch of small nerfs to DDs, buffs to BBs, is making it very difficult to operate a DD imo. When driving a BB I used to be very wary of DDs as I knew how dangerous they could be, now I'm far less worried when I see one....

 

there are also buffs, the new captains tree brings faster reload for small caliber guns (155mm and less) so for DDs and some Cruisers

good turning radius of BBs is not that big of a deal, beacause the rudder is slow so it takes time to turn and it's predictable

[Krogort]

Well i just had a game with the Yama and an enemy DD started firing torps at me for 12 whole minutes without being spotted (Avoided them almost all). I had to close in and for the rest of the game he just popped and popped smoke again being perma-invisible.

 

Take into account that even after a DD stops popping smoke,smoke takes time to dispense providing invisibility for another 10-25 secs (depending of the type of the destroyer).I spotted the enemy DD after about 11-12 minutes (!) in battle in which he fired at least 7-8 spreads,the last of which was completely unavoidable due to receiving enemy fire and having to take evasive actions. 

 

Conclusion: I have no problem with torpedo dmg or range but the fact that for 7 whole minutes the enemy DD (Shimakaze) was invisible due to his smoke and firing torp after torp was insane.Now for the changes,20 secs seems a bit low,not to say overdone ,i would suggest 30-40.I havent checked the new defence system of CA so i dont have an opinion here...

You do realize it take 2.5 minutes for a Shimakaze to reload its torpedoes right ?

So much for the dreaded invisible torpedo spammer.

[Quinzer]

As always, people only recognize the (negative) changes to their favourite class! It doesn´t require a lot to find "XX class has been nerfed to death" topics. However, all you see is people complaining about how their favourite toy has been "completly and utterly nerfed to death and made absolutely unplayable", with tons of threats that the players won´t spend any money to this (insert most hated class in her) favouring game, until (insert most favourite class in here) has been buffed again to be at least on pair.

 

I´ve played from tier 1 to tier 10 during the OBT weekend, and neither class felt superior or inferior. I saw CVs instakilling BBs with a single torpedo plane attack, DDs controlling complete areas of the map and (in case of the tier X Japanese DD) collecting ridulous ammounts of torpedo hits and kills while never been spotted. BBs, oneshotting others or failing to do any damage at all on inferior targets. 0.4.0 delivered changes to all classes, to upgrades and skills, and with those, ships could be specialized in various ways.

 

DD players claim, their ships are useless now. CV players say the same. CA players aswell. BB players complain ever since their main batteries have been rendered useless several patches ago (not in terms of potential damage, but of accuracy). So, since all groups complain, i wonder, which class is playable at all? Of course, all other classes except the prefered one the complaining player prefers...

This is no "whoever cries the most, receives the biggest sweets" contest! This is closed beta, and WG tries hard to achieve the impossible: to balance 4 classes of warships, which were never meant to be balanced. So, as a natural result, whatever is the current state of balance, any class has to suffer and accept compromises...

 

first, i want to say that not everyone is complaining about his/her favourite class, it's just the once complaining that write most in the forums (no one makes a threat: that class is ok the way it is, but many open one: that class sucks/is nerfed to death)

 

and i want to add some thoughts about your experiences in PT0.4: even unexperenced players were able to get to tier X, so some extreme situasions happened, while on cbt you need a certain amount of experience/time played the game to get to high tiers

[Userext]

As always, people only recognize the (negative) changes to their favourite class! It doesn´t require a lot to find "XX class has been nerfed to death" topics. However, all you see is people complaining about how their favourite toy has been "completly and utterly nerfed to death and made absolutely unplayable", with tons of threats that the players won´t spend any money to this (insert most hated class in her) favouring game, until (insert most favourite class in here) has been buffed again to be at least on pair.

 

I´ve played from tier 1 to tier 10 during the OBT weekend, and neither class felt superior or inferior. I saw CVs instakilling BBs with a single torpedo plane attack, DDs controlling complete areas of the map and (in case of the tier X Japanese DD) collecting ridulous ammounts of torpedo hits and kills while never been spotted. BBs, oneshotting others or failing to do any damage at all on inferior targets. 0.4.0 delivered changes to all classes, to upgrades and skills, and with those, ships could be specialized in various ways.

 

DD players claim, their ships are useless now. CV players say the same. CA players aswell. BB players complain ever since their main batteries have been rendered useless several patches ago (not in terms of potential damage, but of accuracy). So, since all groups complain, i wonder, which class is playable at all? Of course, all other classes except the prefered one the complaining player prefers...

This is no "whoever cries the most, receives the biggest sweets" contest! This is closed beta, and WG tries hard to achieve the impossible: to balance 4 classes of warships, which were never meant to be balanced. So, as a natural result, whatever is the current state of balance, any class has to suffer and accept compromises...

 

you played all classes in weekend time? tell me were you able to play kagero? if not then dont bs me here you will be wasting my time

[Orzch]

I like them. They still hurt.

[Mister_Greek]

You do realize it take 2.5 minutes for a Shimakaze to reload its torpedoes right ?

So much for the dreaded invisible torpedo spammer.

 

You do realise that you can reduce the torpedo reload with skills? You do realise that a decent DD player never shoots all its torps at once? You do realise that a Shimakaze can fire 8-10 (roughly) torp waves of 15 torps each in a 20 minute match?

 

Thats about 120-150 torps of 20k or so Avg damage each.... Oh wait....

 

[Takeda92]

DDs also have between 5-15% hit rate with their torps so all that potential damage is wasted. DD just shoot money from their tubes.

[Vincinzerei]

Well i just had a game with the Yama and an enemy DD started firing torps at me for 12 whole minutes without being spotted (Avoided them almost all). I had to close in and for the rest of the game he just popped and popped smoke again being perma-invisible.

 

Take into account that even after a DD stops popping smoke,smoke takes time to dispense providing invisibility for another 10-25 secs (depending of the type of the destroyer).I spotted the enemy DD after about 11-12 minutes (!) in battle in which he fired at least 7-8 spreads,the last of which was completely unavoidable due to receiving enemy fire and having to take evasive actions. 

 

Conclusion: I have no problem with torpedo dmg or range but the fact that for 7 whole minutes the enemy DD (Shimakaze) was invisible due to his smoke and firing torp after torp was insane.Now for the changes,20 secs seems a bit low,not to say overdone ,i would suggest 30-40.I havent checked the new defence system of CA so i dont have an opinion here...

 

Would have loved to see the game in a replay how he accomplished this with his reload time..

[Mister_Greek]

DDs also have between 5-15% hit rate with their torps so all that potential damage is wasted. DD just shoot money from their tubes.

 

Well, 5-7 20 k torps are enough to bring me down     Too much dmg goes down the drain because of RNG or misses.Yamato could have 133.200 potential dmg in each salvo.You would be lucky if you have 7 k in each.

[Keulz]

 

You do realise that you can reduce the torpedo reload with skills? You do realise that a decent DD player never shoots all its torps at once? You do realise that a Shimakaze can fire 8-10 (roughly) torp waves of 15 torps each in a 20 minute match?

 

Thats about 120-150 torps of 20k or so Avg damage each.... Oh wait....

 

 

...

 

That's what i thought :

 

 

So :

a decent DD player never shoots all its torps at once?

 

I do...

 

You do realise that a Shimakaze can fire 8-10 (roughly) torp waves of 15 torps each in a 20 minute match?

 

lol ?

That just never happens, you'd have to be pretty stupid to shoot as soon as your reload is finished, you have to wait for the right time, and it can take a while...

 

Thats about 120-150 torps of 20k or so Avg damage each.... Oh wait....

 

20k on avg ? You're absolutely ignorant and yet, you talk so much...

On avg it's most like 50% of max dmg.

For example, with my gearing, it's between 7k and 10k for 1 torp in the center of a yamato.

 

So, to sum it up, you know nothing of DDs so please, stop saying nonsense.

[Mister_Greek]

 

Would have loved to see the game in a replay how he accomplished this with his reload time..

 

I would too Perhaps there was another DD with him that i didnt realise (No other DD spotted at that time). If the torpedoes that were "chasing" me were women,i would be a happy man 

[Mister_Greek]

"20k on avg ? You're absolutely ignorant and yet, you talk so much..."

 

Shimakaze stats state this. On average from what i have received over the battles, top IJN torps deal about 14-18 k dmg, 50% of 20 k is 10 k...I never received that low roll from a shimakaze.

 

"For example, with my gearing, it's between 7k and 10k for 1 torp in the center of a yamato."

 

I am talking specifically for shimakaze not Gearing,re-read again. 

 

"So, to sum it up, you know nothing of DDs so please, stop saying nonsense."

 

So salty boy, drink some coffee

 

[Userext]

"20k on avg ? You're absolutely ignorant and yet, you talk so much..."

 

Shimakaze stats state this. On average from what i have received over the battles, top IJN torps deal about 14-18 k dmg, 50% of 20 k is 10 k...I never received that low roll from a shimakaze.

 

"For example, with my gearing, it's between 7k and 10k for 1 torp in the center of a yamato."

 

I am talking specifically for shimakaze not Gearing,re-read again. 

 

"So, to sum it up, you know nothing of DDs so please, stop saying nonsense."

 

So salty boy, drink some coffee

 

 

I have shimakaze's stock torps and i can tell you its completly random from 10k to 16k you can do damage to BBs also you can do 15k to 19k damage to CAs but the important part is for them to hit. they dont do damage unless they hit