Submarines are designed to be impossible to counter. Change my mind.

[_TedStriker]

 

[Shaka_D]

No one can change your mind if you’ve already decided. All I can say is they’re not impossible to counter based on my own experience playing in them and against them. Have you played a number of games in subs to give an unbiased pov? 
 

Of course I’ll get neg repped for offering a view in support thereof, but my personal opinion is subs add a new depth to gameplay and most still have to learn how to adapt their gameplay with this new class in the mix. 
 

Over time they’ll prob be nerfed or buffed dependent on their overall performance, but the truth is not everyone likes change and sometimes the change is too much and people leave. You have to decide your own levels of tolerance. Try play a dd in ranked against 3 radar cruisers and a cv. Makes sub counter play look ludicrously easy. Just saying. 

 

[Hirohito]

5 minutes ago, Shaka_D said:

All I can say is they’re not impossible to counter based on my own experience playing in them and against them

Because you played against potatoes.

[COPlUM]

Submarines become more tolerable if you go out of your way to avoid them in ships that can't do anything about them : Cruisers with bad air detection and cuck bombs or "depth charges" like Hindenburg for example suffer most, can't do anything to a submarine. It can see you and torp you ad nauseum from your air detect radius (periscope depth) you can't do anything because you have 0 indication of where it is and even if you had an indication of where it is, you couldn't do anything to make it stop anyway as that would require the submarine to sit still, wait patiently for you to come sit directly on its face and press G. Ships with bad air detection and cuck bombs can only sit there and cry about submarines, so stay away from them if you want to continue playing these ships. Alternatively, play ships with good air detection and air strikes. Conventional wisdom was Mainz is a better T8 than Irian, in a submarine game though Mainz is a free kill and Irian does just fine. There's many examples of ships you probably were ignoring but may consider picking up now because they are not helpless against submarines, which makes them much more enjoyable.

[Kiagy]

It amazes me that Hydro and Radar can detect ships through islands but not submarines under water close by

[Karasu_Browarszky]

4 minutes ago, Kiagy said:

It amazes me that Hydro and Radar can detect ships through islands but not submarines under water close by

 

When you press that 'Battle' button, little do you realize that you take one step beyond and are about to enter a dimension where reality is suspended and the unknown takes its place.

 

 

 

 

[COPlUM]

Also if you hate getting shotgunned, stop playing island hugging cruisers, you're sitting still in those, sub can maneuver its way to you, surface, delete you and dive, easiest thing in the world. Yes I am telling you to stop playing half the cruisers in the game. If you also stop playing cruisers with bad air concealment and cuck bombs I am in fact telling you to stop playing 90% of cruisers in the game. But it is what it is, are you going to be stubborn and whine or adapt?

Want to play cruisers and not get smashed by submarines, go play Irian and Zao, cruisers with air strikes, good air detection and they are always moving around, those are basically your options. Want to play cruisers and crush submarines like they are bugs? Go play Belfast. Belfast has the best air detection, radar, long duration hydro and they also made it the only RN CL with air strikes instead of cuck bombs for some reason.

 

It's temporary anyway, until the bait -& switch is done. When enough people have spent enough on submarines they will get reworked, then you can play the other 100+ cruisers in the game again. There is always a victim when a new class needs to sell, after the CV rework destroyers got oneshot by carriers for 2 years until rocket planes were adjusted, CVs oneshotting DDs not a thing anymore. The helpless victim to sell submarines is most cruisers, deal with it.

[ColonelPete]

56 minutes ago, Brian_Mankin said:

 

How do they get sunk then?

[Hirohito]

1 minute ago, COPlUM said:

Also if you hate getting shotgunned, stop playing island hugging cruisers, you're sitting still in those, sub can maneuver its way to you, surface, delete you and dive, easiest thing in the world. Yes I am telling you to stop playing half the cruisers in the game. If you also stop playing cruisers with bad air concealment and cuck bombs I am in fact telling you to stop playing 90% of cruisers in the game. But it is what it is, are you going to be stubborn and whine or adapt?

I was just getting into cruisers when submarines were being force fed down our throats, and it just ruined any kind of fun.
Does uninstalling the game count as adapting?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

3 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

Does uninstalling the game count as adapting?

yes. thanks for adapting.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

How do they get sunk then?

  Ramming?.... wait, no. The answer is potatoes!

 

Spoiler

 

 

[COPlUM]

Just now, Hirohito said:

I was just getting into cruisers when submarines were being force fed down our throats, and it just ruined any kind of fun. Does uninstalling the game count as adapting?

I guess, but you can also just play other ships. They want to sell submarines, to do this someone had to be sacrificed, the sacrificial lamb was most cruisers. Just avoid most cruisers until they reach whatever sales target they have. Or play them anyway and hope you don't get tortured/shotgunned, there were still people playing DD in 2019-2020 too but every match was a gamble, will the CV be competent and oneshot me with rocket planes or not. And you can still play some cruisers, zao and irian don't care about submarines, belfast takes a big steaming pile of submarines, i'm sure there's more out there, figure it out. But don't play wooster behind a rock and complain about getting shotgunned, or play mainz and complain about getting tortured with 0 counterplay, that's your choice.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

1 minute ago, COPlUM said:

I guess, but you can also just play other ships. They want to sell submarines, to do this someone had to be sacrificed, the sacrificial lamb was most cruisers. Just avoid most cruisers until they reach whatever sales target they have. Or play them anyway and hope you don't get tortured/shotgunned, there were still people playing DD in 2019-2020 too but every match was a gamble, will the CV be competent and oneshot me with rocket planes or not. And you can still play some cruisers, zao and irian don't care about submarines, belfast takes a big steaming pile of submarines, i'm sure there's more out there, figure it out. But don't play wooster behind a rock and complain about getting shotgunned, or play mainz and complain about getting tortured with 0 counterplay, that's your choice.

 

Actually, DD's are even worse off. The best solution are the BB's and cruisers that have air strike available for them. WG is disingenious if nothing else...

[Hirohito]

1 minute ago, COPlUM said:

I guess, but you can also just play other ships. They want to sell submarines, to do this someone had to be sacrificed, the sacrificial lamb was most cruisers. Just avoid most cruisers until they reach whatever sales target they have. Or play them anyway and hope you don't get tortured/shotgunned, there were still people playing DD in 2019-2020 too but every match was a gamble, will the CV be competent and oneshot me with rocket planes or not. And you can still play some cruisers, zao and irian don't care about submarines, belfast takes a big steaming pile of submarines, i'm sure there's more out there, figure it out. But don't play wooster behind a rock and complain about getting shotgunned, or play mainz and complain about getting tortured with 0 counterplay, that's your choice.

That's the problem, I'm the kind of player that loathes farming damage in the open, and I play the tactical island game near the caps regardless of which class I pick (yes, even BB).
As you say, you just cant do that today with subs around.

[COPlUM]

12 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Actually, DD's are even worse off.

Only if DD is stubborn about the objectives being 'his job' - when there's a submarine around objectives are not your job, there's nothing you can do. Contesting caps against or challenging a submarine when he has back-up is suicide. DDs have the speed and concealment to avoid submarine until it's isolated, then take it out, or just avoid it entirely if you don't want to deal with it.

 

Actually being fully helpless happens in cruisers with bad air conceal and cuck bombs, stuff like mainz and hindy, your only way to fight a submarine is ask it nicely to please tell you where it is, ask him to please sit still, ask his team to please don't shoot you while you go sit on top of it and press G. Or even worse, stuff like Venezia, in Venezia if the submarine tells you where he is and he agrees to sit still and his team agrees to not shoot you, you still can't kill it by pressing G, because you don't have hydro and you would have to be on voice-chat with the submarine you're trying to kill to coordinate getting exactly on top of his head little bit to the left, no turn around, little bit to the right. These are the kinds of conversations you would need to have with the submarine to "counter" a submarine in venezia.

The only way to kill a submarine in venezia is be in a voice channel with the submarine and he's actively helping you kill him

[NewHorizons_1]

I'm no fan of subs, but using an 8 month old YT vid probably isn't the best argument against them.

There has been some changes since.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

9 minutes ago, COPlUM said:

Only if DD is stubborn about the objectives being 'his job' - when there's a submarine around objectives are not your job, there's nothing you can do. Contesting caps against or challenging a submarine when he has back-up is suicide. DDs have the speed and concealment to avoid submarine until it's isolated, then take it out, or just avoid it entirely if you don't want to deal with it.

 

Actually being fully helpless happens in cruisers with bad air conceal and cuck bombs, stuff like mainz and hindy, your only way to fight a submarine is ask it nicely to please tell you where it is, ask him to please sit still, ask his team to please don't shoot you while you go sit on top of it and press G. Or even worse, stuff like Venezia, in Venezia if the submarine tells you where he is and he agrees to sit still and his team agrees to not shoot you, you still can't kill it by pressing G, because you don't have hydro and you would have to be on voice-chat with the submarine you're trying to kill to coordinate getting exactly on top of his head little bit to the left, no turn around, little bit to the right. These are the kinds of conversations you would need to have with the submarine to "counter" a submarine in venezia.

The only way to kill a submarine in venezia is be in a voice channel with the submarine and he's actively helping you kill him

 

Everything depends, of course, on the sub being spotted and tracked. That area is probably one of the biggest failings of sub counterplay.

[triumphgt6]

I can kill subs in my Fiji bit only if they are not very good. A T8 sub with a captain with a modicum of intelligence can kill me easily. Doesn't stop me trying if I have to and luckily most players are not good, but subs in a game does reduce my enjoyment. I agree Belfast would be better but it is ridiculously OP and not that much fun to play. 

[Cammo1962]

10 minutes ago, triumphgt6 said:

I can kill subs in my Fiji bit only if they are not very good. A T8 sub with a captain with a modicum of intelligence can kill me easily. Doesn't stop me trying if I have to and luckily most players are not good, but subs in a game does reduce my enjoyment. I agree Belfast would be better but it is ridiculously OP and not that much fun to play. 

I dont know I have fun playing my Belfast 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

18 minutes ago, triumphgt6 said:

I can kill subs in my Fiji bit only if they are not very good. A T8 sub with a captain with a modicum of intelligence can kill me easily. Doesn't stop me trying if I have to and luckily most players are not good, but subs in a game does reduce my enjoyment. I agree Belfast would be better but it is ridiculously OP and not that much fun to play. 

 

Fiji is a competent option for most situations. It has never, though, occurred to me that picking an excruciatingly crappy ship to play might increase the fun factor.

[Hugh_Ruka]

2 hours ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

I'm no fan of subs, but using an 8 month old YT vid probably isn't the best argument against them.

There has been some changes since.

You mean in favor of submarines ?

[Head_has_Exploded]

9 hours ago, Shaka_D said:

No one can change your mind if you’ve already decided. All I can say is they’re not impossible to counter based on my own experience playing in them and against them. Have you played a number of games in subs to give an unbiased pov? 
 

Of course I’ll get neg repped for offering a view in support thereof, but my personal opinion is subs add a new depth to gameplay and most still have to learn how to adapt their gameplay with this new class in the mix. 
 

Over time they’ll prob be nerfed or buffed dependent on their overall performance, but the truth is not everyone likes change and sometimes the change is too much and people leave. You have to decide your own levels of tolerance. Try play a dd in ranked against 3 radar cruisers and a cv. Makes sub counter play look ludicrously easy. Just saying. 

 

Nerfed, always nerfed, it would have been nice for the german subs to be able to 'snorkel' at periscope depth, but we can't have nice things like that, as fpor counter play, I find b both playing subs and other ships, turning the ship can make the torps lose track, just my observation.

[________________Morrison]

13 hours ago, Shaka_D said:

my personal opinion is subs add a new depth to gameplay

[Varian_Dorn]

Dear OP, it would be easier if you actually gave us a piece of your mind to work with.

 

Because all you did was posting an outdated vid by Flamu. If your opinion is based on this vid alone then you can gladly keep it ("it" applies to both your opinion and Flamu).

[Nov_A]

Finnish man yells at:

 

[ x ] Company

[    ] Planes

[    ] Teammates

 

New option:

 

[ x ] Submarines