Tactical advice

[COPlUM]

16 minutes ago, Deksi_4 said:

Yes I am usually playing Moskva or Salem which like you say are very hard to play if no support from team mates. You are right, I will try not to commit on any flank early on and to be in a kitting position. Maybe I should play Moskva and Salem open water? But I saw that they are not nimble like Zao for instance, so I get smash by bbs and super bbs with two salvos from 15 km. Playing cruisers is becoming very hard in this long range meta. 

Try more speed juking, less rudder juking, it's easier. Salem is not made for this and a high skill floor ship, just don't play it (yet) You can try this stuff out in moskva, it's reasonably good at it.



A good place to start is know when you should turn around and start kiting on the weak side. Green dot is your ship, black circle is cap, red circle is your detection radius. Most DDs will contest on their side of the cap because they too have stuff to be scared of. If you make your turn to get in a kiting position 2km before your concealment radius covers the entire cap, you should already see some improvements. Improvements in the sense that you probably won't get DD spotted and BB blapped while making this turn, in the sense that you're butt-in to the enemy and (barely) undetected before you even begin kiting. This is really basic, kiting for dummies basically lol, but this stupid drawing already makes you not a potato in a cruiser, the bar for not being a potato is shockingly low.

[Hirohito]

8 minutes ago, Deksi_4 said:

I dont have any agression. They were not kitting because they were literally escaping to the other flank living me alone. My only fault like you say is that I didnt see that coming in time. I overcomit a lot of times, but that is because I want to support our dd that is caping.I dont wont our dd to die because we loose vision then. Perhaps I should kite and let the enemies kill our dd? I will change my aproach in future games. I will be in jitting position and farming damage numbers. Seems, this is the only thing it counts int his game. No problem, I will adapt. 

What you need to do is practice these kinds of decisions well in advance.

You need to watch the minimap closely on your flank early on, counting the number of  ships on both sides, and religiously watch your concealment radius.
You do not want to get spotted early before you are either in a safe position near or behind an island, or spotted in the open when you are too close to make that turn.
A very good thing to practice, if you want to support your DD, is to follow him to the cap (preferably close to an island in case you need to dip behind it), but not let your concealment radius cover the entire cap.
If the cap that your DD is trying to contest, is not being contested by the enemy DD, it means you can push a little further in.
But, if you see that cap starting to flip to the red team (or your DD making 0 progress on capping it), it means there is a red DD in there that is about to spot you, and in that case you either want to still have a few kilometers left in order to turn your ship safely before you get spotted, or be close to an island to dip behind as you get spotted.

Once you get really good at that playstyle you can change up some of the rules I pointed out above and be more aggressive (granted you know perfectly well what you're doing), but generally you want to start out by playing more cautiously than aggressively.
The single best way to get good at the game (which applies to all classes, but more to DDs and cruisers) is to start watching the minimap and pay attention to your concealment, and rather be safe than sorry by taking pre-emptive measures before all hell breaks loose.

[COPlUM]

3 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

I actually prefer kiting in a BB over a DD.

Same, sometimes, depends. I'm trying to make this as simple as possible because the dude played 11K co-op games and is dipping his toes in T10 randoms. If he looks at my stupid drawing he's still gonna get plane spotted, panick, get blapped. Or overmatched by a unicum in a satsuma. Or forced to choose between a cum smoothie (CV torps) and a shlt sandwich (BB volley) - But it's a start, he should be fine, mostly, hopium

[Deksi_4]

5 minutes ago, COPlUM said:

Try more speed juking, less rudder juding, it's easier. Salem is not made for this and a high skill floor ship, just don't play it (yet) You can try this stuff out in moskva, it's reasonably good at it.



A good place to start is know when you should turn around and start kiting on the weak side. Green dot is your ship, black circle is cap, red circle is your detection radius. Most DDs will contest on their side of the cap because they too have stuff to be scared of. If you make your turn to get in a kiting position 2km before your concealment radius covers the entire cap, you should already see some improvements. Improvements in the sense that you probably won't get DD spotted and BB blapped while making this turn, in the sense that you're butt-in to the enemy and (barely) undetected before you even begin kiting. This is really basic, kiting for dummies basically lol, but this stupid drawing already makes you not a potato in a cruiser, the bar for not being a potato is shockingly low.

Thanks for the advice. I played Salem and Moskva stationary near Islands. I think that it made hard for me to disingage because in the moment I am spotted by the whole enemy team I cant turn at all because I would be devstruck in one salvo. I will try to implement this advice of yours, to play a lot more ina kitting position. 

[Hirohito]

Good picture, explains it better than my text could ever hope to do.

[Deksi_4]

12 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

What you need to do is practice these kinds of decisions well in advance.

You need to watch the minimap closely on your flank early on, counting the number of  ships on both sides, and religiously watch your concealment radius.
You do not want to get spotted early before you are either in a safe position near or behind an island, or still far enough out that you can make that turn.
A very good thing to practice, if you want to support your DD, is to follow him to the cap (preferably close to an island in case you need to dip behind it), but not let your concealment radius cover the entire cap.
If the cap that your DD is trying to contest, is not being contested by the enemy DD, it means you can push a little further in.
But, if you see that cap starting to flip to the red team (or your DD making 0 progress on capping it), it means there is a red DD in there that is about to spot you, and in that case you either want to still have a few kilometers left in order to turn your ship safely before you get spotted, or be close to an island to dip behind as you get spotted.

Once you get really good at that playstyle you can change up some of the rules I pointed out above and be more aggressive (granted you know perfectly well what you're doing), but generally you want to start out by playing more cautiously than aggressively.
The single best way to get good at the game (which applies to all classes, but more to DDs and cruisers) is to start watching the minimap and pay attention to your concealment, and rather be safe than sorry by taking pre-emptive measures before all hell breaks loose.

Thanks man, much apreciate your advice. I think everything will come to me by experience. More game I play, better will be.At least I hope🙂Will try to implement this im my games. Have a good rest of the night. 

[COPlUM]

10 minutes ago, Deksi_4 said:

Thanks for the advice. I played Salem and Moskva stationary near Islands. I think that it made hard for me to disingage because in the moment I am spotted by the whole enemy team I cant turn at all because I would be devstruck in one salvo. I will try to implement this advice of yours, to play a lot more ina kitting position. 

My pleasure, playing moskva like that is suicide these days, salem is supposed to be played near islands but that's (part of) why it's a high skill floor ship, leave that stuff to better players for now, you need turbo situational awareness to play ships like salem. The easiest "type" of ship to play is a kiting spam cruiser with good long range ballistics. You don't have to worry about carrying games in them, you don't have to make the winning plays. Just focus on staying alive and doing damage. Doing that in a spam cruiser is already enough to be average, most people can't do it unironically. Try to get your hands on a hindenburg if you can, it's really good at this particular thing.

Once you get the hang of kiting properly, staying alive and doing damage, work on basic priorities, i.e what you shoot.

1) Submarines & Destroyers
2) Radar cruisers and cruisers without a heal
3) Other cruisers
4) Battleships, unless you can get a cheap permanent fire on them, then they take priority over other cruisers
If something is low and you think you can finish it, priorities go out the window, finish it.

Priority list is for winning, if you want to do more damage and not win you turn this list upside-down. If you can take pot shots at the enemy CV, do it, most people say this is useless because a half HP CV is just as effective as a full HP CV, they are wrong. A half HP CV played by an average CV player will instinctively move his carrier further back instead of pushing up and hugging some island, this increases how long he has to fly his planes, reducing his impact on your team.

[Deksi_4]

21 minutes ago, COPlUM said:

My pleasure, playing moskva like that is suicide these days, salem is supposed to be played near islands but that's (part of) why it's a high skill floor ship, leave that stuff to better players for now, you need turbo situational awareness to play ships like salem. The easiest "type" of ship to play is a kiting spam cruiser with good long range ballistics. You don't have to worry about carrying games in them, you don't have to make the winning plays. Just focus on staying alive and doing damage. Doing that in a spam cruiser is already enough to be average, most people can't do it unironically. Try to get your hands on a hindenburg if you can, it's really good at this particular thing.

Once you get the hang of kiting properly, staying alive and doing damage, work on basic priorities, i.e what you shoot.

1) Submarines & Destroyers
2) Radar cruisers and cruisers without a heal
3) Other cruisers
4) Battleships, unless you can get a cheap permanent fire on them, then they take priority over other cruisers
If something is low and you think you can finish it, priorities go out the window, finish it.

Priority list is for winning, if you want to do more damage and not win you turn this list upside-down. If you can take pot shots at the enemy CV, do it, most people say this is useless because a half HP CV is just as effective as a full HP CV, they are wrong. A half HP CV played by an average CV player will instinctively move his carrier further back instead of pushing up and hugging some island, this increases how long he has to fly his planes, reducing his impact on your team.

One last question, from coal cruisers I dont have only the Yoshino. What do you think, would it be a good ship for me at tier 10.Is she hard to play? Or I thought to get Brisbane(HE Minotaur for coal) when she come out. Can you give me advice which bbs and cruisers are good to buy for coal. I have Salem, Moskva, Napoli, Marceau and Kurfurst. I have also enough steel for my first steel ship. I am undecided between Shikishima and Bourgogne. What you think would be the best from this two?

[COPlUM]

11 minutes ago, Deksi_4 said:

One last question, from coal cruisers I dont have only the Yoshino. What do you think, would it be a good ship for beginer players at tier 10.Is she hard to play? Or I thought to get Brisbane(HE Minotaur for coal) when she come out. Can you give me advice which bbs and cruisers are good to buy for coal. I have Salem, Moskva, Napoli, Marceau and Kurfurst.

Yoshino can be very good at this but situational because it's huge and its citadel is comically large. If you're in a game with multiple 457mm/460mm caliber battleships yoshino is going to get smashed. Minotaur and Brisbane are not made for this at all and are the highest skill floor cruisers out there, don't touch them, you'll get smashed. Marceau is also high skill floor and a destroyer so I don't see how that's relevant here. Kurfurst is a battleship and not a very good one. But you have Napoli, Napoli is the god emperor of kiting and not dying, it is unkillable. It's so good at kiting and not dying the best clans on the server all the way up to hurricane league have one on their weak flank to do exactly what I described and suggested you do. You basically have the best ship in the game for this, use it.

A kiting napoli is pain in the balls for any player in any ship, it just won't fcking die. Play it, it's perfect. It's so good at not dying that even the best players in the best ships almost won't want to shoot you because it's a waste of time trying to kill a kiting napoli. What's going to happen if you do this correctly in napoli is bad/average players will waste all their time trying to kill you, good players will know it's a waste of time to even try and leave you alone lol.

[Deksi_4]

5 minutes ago, COPlUM said:

Yoshino can be very good at this but situational because it's huge and its citadel is comically large. If you're in a game with multiple 457mm/460mm caliber battleships yoshino is going to get smashed. Minotaur and Brisbane are not made for this at all and are the highest skill floor cruisers out there, don't touch them, you'll get smashed. Marceau is also high skill floor and a destroyer so I don't see how that's relevant here. Kurfurst is a battleship and not a very good one. But you have Napoli, Napoli is the god emperor of kiting and not dying, it is unkillable. It's so good at kiting and not dying the best clans on the server all the way up to hurricane league have one on their weak flank to do exactly what I described and suggested you do. You basically have the best ship in the game for this, use it.

A kiting napoli is pain in the balls for any player in any ship, it just won't fcking die. Play it, it's perfect. It's so good at not dying that even the best players in the best ships almost won't want to shoot you because it's a waste of time trying to kill a kiting napoli.

Thanks man, and for my first steel ship should I go with Shikishima or Bourgogne? I dont have Yamato. 

[COPlUM]

Just now, Deksi_4 said:

Thanks man, and for my first steel ship should I go with Shikishima or Bourgogne? I dont have Yamato. 

I don't have either but I know many who do, they tell me shikishima is not worth it, it's good but it's too similar to yamato which you can get for free. Bourgogne is also good (very good) and unique. Being unique is what steel ships are all about, in my opinion anyway. I mean you put in a lot of work for that steel right, why spend it on a ship you can get for free with a 2 day grind if you stack some boosters?

[Deksi_4]

2 minutes ago, COPlUM said:

I don't have either but I know many who do, they tell me shikishima is not worth it, it's good but it's too similar to yamato which you can get for free. Bourgogne is also good (very good) and unique. Being unique is what steel ships are all about, in my opinion anyway. I mean you put in a lot of work for that steel right, why spend it on a ship you can get for free with a 2 day grind if you stack some boosters?

Thanks very much, sorry if I overhelmed you with many questions. Have a good night and see you here on the forum. 

[WildWind84]

5 hours ago, COPlUM said:

if you shoot something that's chasing you your shell travel time is reduced while theirs is increased.

Tnx for this. 

[COPlUM]

4 minutes ago, WildWind84 said:

Tnx for this. 

No problem, note though this only applies to capitalist shells. Communist shells are not subject to inertia, drag, gravity or the laws of physics.