European cruiser tech tree line proposal

[TheKaramelka]

After publishing in the DevBlog about European destroyers, the question becomes: where is their cruiser tech tree line? Even Pan-America has already received, but here - no. Here we will consider what it can actually be.

Tech tree features:

• Ships have a high firing range
• Rapid fire artillery with excellent ballistics (shells fly fast)
• Missing HE shells like British cruisers
• AP projectiles have increased penetration at a distance
• Available engine boost, repair party, hydroacoustic search

Representatives:

Spoiler

Commonwealth cruiser Novara, Tier II:

Type of cruisers of the naval forces of Austria-Hungary during the First World War. 3 units were built: "Saida", "Helgoland" and "Novara". The most advanced light cruisers of the Austro-Hungarian fleet.

Spoiler

Displacement: 4010 t

Plating: 13 mm

Deck: 13 mm

Armor belt: 13 mm

Length: 130,1 m

Hit points: 22 700

Torpedo protection: 0%

Main armament

9x1 100 mm/50 Skoda K10

Reload time: 6 sec

Firing range: 12,8 km

180 degree turn time: 18 sec

Sigma: 2,0

AP – 100 mm AP M1910

     Projectile weight: 13,75 kg

     Max damage: 1650

     AP initial velocity: 880 m/s

Torpedo armament
3х2 450 mm Double

       Reload ime: 56 seconds

       Torpedo type: Torped M1913
       Damage: 4 200

       Flood chance: 63%
       Speed: 55 knots
       Range: 8,0 km
       Detection range: 1,2 km

AA defense:

1x1 47 mm/44 Škoda

Maximum speed: 27,0 kts

Turning circle radius: 550 m

Rudder shift time: 7,4 sec

Surface detectability: 10,1 km

Air detectability: 4,9 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Commonwealth cruiser Szigetvár, Tier III:

Project of a series of three light cruisers of the Austro-Hungarian Navy. According to the program for the construction of the navy for 1915-1919. were supposed to replace the obsolete armored cruisers of the Zenta type. The outbreak of the First World War suspended the laying of cruisers. With the end of the war in 1918 and the subsequent collapse of Austria-Hungary, the project was finally curtailed.

Spoiler

Displacement: 5770 t

Plating: 13 mm

Deck: 13 mm

Armor belt: 20 mm

Length: 151,2 m

Hit points: 23 400

Torpedo protection: 2%

Main armament

14x1 120 mm/45 Skoda

Reload time: 8,3 sec

Firing range: 13,9 km

180 degree turn time: 18 sec

Sigma: 2,0

AP – 120 mm AP M1914

     Projectile weight: 24 kg

     Max damage: 2000

     AP initial velocity: 850 m/s

Torpedo armament
2х2 533 mm Double

       Reload ime: 56 seconds

       Torpedo type: Torped M1913 mod.1
       Damage: 6 200

       Flood chance: 95%
       Speed: 60 knots
       Range: 8,0 km
       Detection range: 1,4 km

AA defense:

1x1 66 mm/18 Skoda

1x1 47 mm/44 SKoda

Maximum speed: 30,0 kts

Turning circle radius: 590 m

Rudder shift time: 8,1 sec

Surface detectability: 11,3 km

Air detectability: 5,4 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Commonwealth cruiser Bałtyckii, Tier IV:

In 1926 the "small program" of the KMW (the maritime direction) announced over 12 years the commissioning of 2 cruisers, 6 destroyers, 12 torpedo boats and 12 submersibles, to be completed by 1940. The cruisers were to be copies of the Duguay-Trouin, built in Polish yards. Due to the dissatisfaction with the French yard CNT, which was building the Burza and Wicher, as well as an economic downturn, the cruisers were not realized.

Spoiler

Displacement: 9350 t

Plating: 13 mm

Deck: 13 mm

Armor belt: 16 mm

Length: 181,3 m

Hit points: 26 700

Torpedo protection: 4%

Main armament

4x2 155 mm/50 Mle 1920

Reload time: 12 sec

Firing range: 15,4 km

180 degree turn time: 22,5 sec

Sigma: 2,0

AP – 155 mm AP OPFA Mle 1920

     Projectile weight: 56,5 kg

     Max damage: 3300

     AP initial velocity: 870 m/s

Torpedo armament
4х3 533 mm Triple

       Reload ime: 56 seconds

       Torpedo type: Torped M1913 mod.1
       Damage: 6 200

       Flood chance: 95%
       Speed: 60 knots
       Range: 8,0 km
       Detection range: 1,4 km

AA defense:

4x2 40-мм/56 Bofors wz.1936

6x2 13,2-мм Hotchkiss wz.1930

Maximum speed: 33 kts

Turning circle radius: 670 m

Rudder shift time: 7,8 sec

Surface detectability: 12,9 km

Air detectability: 5,6 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Catapult Fighter

Slot 3 - Hydroacoustic search

Commonwealth cruiser Mărășești, Tier V:

Late 1930's when the economical situation improved Romania again started looking for designs to expand it's Navy.
Apart from Ansaldo, the firm OTO (Odero Terni Orlando) - who was producing guns for the navy in various sizes as well constructing cruisers mostly for the Regia Marina - proposed a warship described as a scout cruiser in 1937/1938. This design featured a 6x 152mm main guns in triple turrets all forward, aircraft facilities aft (similar to the later Japanese light cruiser IJN Oyodo) and moderate AA armament of 37mm and 13mm Machine guns and light armour.
From these designs only the later design of OTO could had been built in Romania as the country preferred to build it's ships at home in the Galati Shipyard. Before any of the designs could had been chosen the deteriorating political situation of Europe and later the second world war prevented the construction of these ships.

Spoiler

Displacement: 6000 t

Plating: 13 mm

Deck: 25 mm

Armor belt: 52 mm

Length: 140 m

Hit points: 25 100

Torpedo protection: 2%

Main armament

2x3 152 mm/55 Model 1934

Reload time: 8,5 sec

Firing range: 16,1 km

180 degree turn time: 24 sec

Sigma: 2,0

AP – 152 mm AP M1934

     Projectile weight: 50 kg

     Max damage: 3200

     AP initial velocity: 910 m/s

Torpedo armament
1х3 533 mm Triple

       Reload ime: 56 seconds

       Torpedo type: Torped M1924 mod.1
       Damage: 7 533

       Flood chance: 119%
       Speed: 65 knots
       Range: 10,0 km
       Detection range: 1,4 km

AA defense:

4x2 37-мм/54 Model 1938

4x2 13,2 mm/76 Breda Model 1931

Maximum speed: 37 kts

Turning circle radius: 620 m

Rudder shift time: 7,0 sec

Surface detectability: 12,1 km

Air detectability: 5,7 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Catapult Fighter

Slot 3 - Hydroacoustic search

Commonwealth cruiser Elli, Tier VI:

Former Italian cruiser Eugenio di Savoia of the Duca d'Aosta class. After the end of World War II, it was handed over to Greece under reparations. The cruiser was accepted by the Hellenic Navy on July 1, 1951 in Piraeus under the code name G-2 and renamed Elli. In 1965, it was excluded from the fleet, for some time it was used as a floating prison. In 1973 it was scrapped.

Spoiler

Displacement: 10450 t

Plating: 13 mm

Deck: 16 mm

Armor belt: 40 mm

Length: 186,9 m

Hit points: 29 700

Torpedo protection: 2%

Main armament

4x2 152 mm/53 OTO Model 1929

Reload time: 7,5 sec

Firing range: 16,1 km

180 degree turn time: 25,7 sec

Sigma: 2,0

AP – 152 mm AP M1926

     Projectile weight: 50 kg

     Max damage: 3200

     AP initial velocity: 1000 m/s

Torpedo armament
2х3 533 mm Triple

       Reload ime: 56 seconds

       Torpedo type: Torped M1943
       Damage: 7 533

       Flood chance: 119%
       Speed: 76 knots
       Range: 12,0 km
       Detection range: 1,6 km

Secondary Armament

4х2 100 mm/47 Model 1924/27/28

      Reload time: 6 sec

      Max Damage: 1 500

      Fire Chance: 6%

      Armor penetration: 17 mm

      Firing range: 5 km

      HE initial velocity: 850 m/s

AA defense:

4х2 100 mm/47 Model 1924/27/28

4x2 37 mm/54 Model 1938

4x2 13,2 mm/76 Breda Model 1931

Maximum speed: 36,5 kts

Turning circle radius: 710 m

Rudder shift time: 6,7 sec

Surface detectability: 11,7 km

Air detectability: 5,9 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Catapult Fighter

Slot 3 - Hydroacoustic search

Slot 4 - Engine boost

Commonwealth cruiser Vulcanul, Tier VII:

Light cruiser project (UP-90 modified), which was proposed by the Romanian Navy in the 1930s from Ansaldo.

Spoiler

Displacement: 10200 t

Plating: 13 mm

Deck: 25 mm

Armor belt: 52 mm

Length: 176 m

Hit points: 31 400

Torpedo protection: 10%

Main armament

3x3 152 mm/55 Model 1934

Reload time: 7,5 sec

Firing range: 16,4 km

180 degree turn time: 24 sec

Sigma: 2,0

AP – 152 mm AP M1934

     Projectile weight: 50 kg

     Max damage: 3200

     AP initial velocity: 910 m/s

Torpedo armament
2х3 533 mm Triple

       Reload ime: 56 seconds

       Torpedo type: Torped M1943
       Damage: 7 533

       Flood chance: 119%
       Speed: 76 knots
       Range: 12,0 km
       Detection range: 1,6 km

Secondary Armament

6х2 100 mm/47 Model 1924/27/28

      Reload time: 6 sec

      Max Damage: 1 500

      Fire Chance: 6%

      Armor penetration: 17 mm

      Firing range: 5,3 km

      HE initial velocity: 850 m/s

AA defense:

6х2 100 mm/47 Model 1924/27/28

4x2 37 mm/54 Model 1938

8х2 20 mm/65 Breda Model 1935

Maximum speed: 32 kts

Turning circle radius: 730 m

Rudder shift time: 7,1 sec

Surface detectability: 11,7 km

Air detectability: 6,9 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Catapult Fighter

Slot 3 - Hydroacoustic search

Slot 4 - Engine boost

Commonwealth cruiser Tre Kronor, Tier VIII:

A type of light cruiser in the Swedish Navy. A total of two ships were built: Tre Kronor, Gota Lejon (HMS Göta Lejon). The first and last light cruisers of the Swedish Navy.

Spoiler

Displacement: 9200 t

Plating: 16 mm

Deck: 30 mm

Armor belt: 76 mm

Length: 174 m

Hit points: 33 800

Torpedo protection: 8%

Main armament

2x2 152 mm/53 Model 1942

1х3 152 mm/53 Model 1942

Reload time: 5 sec

Firing range: 16,9 km

180 degree turn time: 7,2 sec

Sigma: 2,0

AP – 152 mm AP M1942

     Projectile weight: 46,7 kg

     Max damage: 3000

     AP initial velocity: 900 m/s

Torpedo armament
2х3 533 mm Triple

       Reload ime: 60 seconds

       Torpedo type: Torped M1943 mod.1
       Damage: 10 700

       Flood chance: 173%
       Speed: 76 knots
       Range: 12,0 km
       Detection range: 1,6 km

AA defense:

2x2 152 mm/53 Model 1942

1х3 152 mm/53 Model 1942

4x2 57 mm/60 SAK Model 1950

11x1 40-мм/70 SAK-40/L70-350

Maximum speed: 33 kts

Turning circle radius: 710 m

Rudder shift time: 7,4 sec

Surface detectability: 12,7 km

Air detectability: 7,0 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Catapult Fighter

Slot 3 - Hydroacoustic search

Slot 4 - Engine boost

Commonwealth cruiser Gotland, Tier IX:

A light cruiser similar to the De Zeven Provincien-class cruisers. Since the guns were produced by the Swedish company Bofors, it would not have been difficult for them to order the construction of a third hull for their fleet, however, replacing two two-gun turrets with three-gun turrets, they are similar to Tre Kronor-class cruisers

Spoiler

Displacement: 12250 t

Plating: 25 mm

Deck: 25 mm

Armor belt: 75 mm

Length: 185,82 m

Hit points: 33 800

Torpedo protection: 19%

Main armament

2x2 152 mm/53 Model 1942

2х3 152 mm/53 Model 1942

Reload time: 5,5 sec

Firing range: 17,4 km

180 degree turn time: 7,2 sec

Sigma: 2,05

AP – 152 mm AP M1942

     Projectile weight: 46,7 kg

     Max damage: 3000

     AP initial velocity: 900 m/s

Torpedo armament
2х3 533 mm Triple

       Reload ime: 60 seconds

       Torpedo type: Torped M1943 mod.1
       Damage: 10 700

       Flood chance: 173%
       Speed: 76 knots
       Range: 12,0 km
       Detection range: 1,6 km

AA defense:

2x2 152 mm/53 Model 1942

1х3 152 mm/53 Model 1942

4x2 57 mm/60 SAK Model 1950

8x1 40-мм/70 SAK-40/L70-350

Maximum speed: 32 kts

Turning circle radius: 730 m

Rudder shift time: 9,1 sec

Surface detectability: 13,0 km

Air detectability: 8,5 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Catapult Fighter

Slot 3 - Hydroacoustic search

Slot 4 - Engine boost

Slot 5 - Repair party

Commonwealth cruiser Kållandsö, Tier X:

A project for the further development of cruisers of the Tre Kronor type. The ship would have been ordered abroad because the Swedish shipyards would not allow a ship of this size to be hosted. It is distinguished by 12 152-mm rapid-fire universal artillery, powerful air defense and high maximum speed.

Spoiler

Displacement: 13800 t

Plating: 25 mm

Deck: 25 mm

Armor belt: 75 mm

Length: 184 m

Hit points: 35 700

Torpedo protection: 15%

Main armament

4х3 152 mm/53 Model 1942

Reload time: 5,7 sec

Firing range: 18,3 km

180 degree turn time: 7,2 sec

Sigma: 2,05

AP – 152 mm AP M1942

     Projectile weight: 46,7 kg

     Max damage: 3000

     AP initial velocity: 900 m/s

Torpedo armament
4х4 533 mm Quad

       Reload ime: 60 seconds

       Torpedo type: Torped M1947 mod.1
       Damage: 10 700

       Flood chance: 173%
       Speed: 86 knots
       Range: 15,0 km
       Detection range: 1,8 km

AA defense:

4х3 152 mm/53 Model 1942

6x2 57 mm/60 SAK Model 1950

21x1 40-мм/70 SAK-40/L70-350

Maximum speed: 36,5 kts

Turning circle radius: 770 m

Rudder shift time: 8,9 sec

Surface detectability: 13,7 km

Air detectability: 8,9 km

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Catapult Fighter

Slot 3 - Hydroacoustic search

Slot 4 - Engine boost

Slot 5 - Repair party

 

 If you don't like my posts, PLEASE don't comment them, don't bring yourself and me into conflict.

This is my personal proposal and not the fact that ships will ever appear in the game or my concept will be taken into attention!

[KillStealBoss]

Bałtyckii? Well that word doesn't make sense in Polish. It would be Bałtyk II (since the original Bałtyk was post WW1 French armoured cruiser that was used as a hulk but still commissioned in the Polish Navy having some AA guns on deck). 

 

I would also suggest a T5 premium ship

ORP Conrad. A uptiered Danae class cruiser. It could have a smoke generator like Emerald does and fire HE. 

[LukkaiCH]

I do like the concept of the tier V, I won't lie.

 

Absolutely not liking the justification for the tier IX though. "It would not have been difficult"? Building the hull is the biggest and most time intensive part of building the whole ship. Also the one that is taking a large enough dockyard to do it in, something that is rare from a certain ship size on and many nations will want to use for domestic projects first. Is there really no alternative out there? Something that at least was actually proposed on paper?

[TheKaramelka]

10 hours ago, LukkaiCH said:

I do like the concept of the tier V, I won't lie.

 

Absolutely not liking the justification for the tier IX though. "It would not have been difficult"? Building the hull is the biggest and most time intensive part of building the whole ship. Also the one that is taking a large enough dockyard to do it in, something that is rare from a certain ship size on and many nations will want to use for domestic projects first. Is there really no alternative out there? Something that at least was actually proposed on paper?

The highest at level 9 and 10 is the Tre Kronor class, there are no more applicants. And regarding Gotland - in Sweden such a ship could not be built due to the limited size of the shipyards (the largest ship that could be built would be Tre Kronor). Therefore, they could well have placed an order for the construction of a cruiser hull, since all the same, all weapons were produced by the Swiss company Bofors: 40, 57 and 152 mm

[Lootboxer]

Nice try but not enough of "what if this happened and then that happened and then if they've put this on the top of that" for WG. Also way too many new ship hulls and staff, try again using only already modelled hulls and turrets. And more gimmicks!!!! There is never too many gimmicks for WG, the dumber the better. And where are premiums? The more the better, 8, 9 10 tier only for obvious reasons

[Rockstone_III]

I like the idea and the ship names are great suggestions. 
The stats in OP seem a bit odd though and a little too strong. Improved ballistics, penetration with long range... seems positively Russian to me.

 

And keeping in the general idea of both destroyer lines, might I suggest
- fast low damage torps.

- fairly fast fireing main guns of 150 to 180 mm.

- good AA.

- hydro and on higher ties perhaps radar.

- not well armoured.

- not very fast but maneouverable.

- concealment around 11 km

 

[Marblehead_1]

Interesting choice. I'm not sure did Tre Kronor class could be higher than TVII ( or TVIII with gimmick like radar )

 

Gotland - imo we definitely get TIV-V Swedish aviation cruiser ( it's rather certain that she will be premium ship in aviation cruiser variant ) which had such name. Such ship could be material for two ships: premium and tech tree with enchanced AA. Now imagine butthurt of some players for aviation cruiser  oMg aNoThEr hYbRiD ShIp,rEmOvE ThIs oMg  (sound of fecal accident)

 

 

 

 

 

[invicta2012]

28 minutes ago, Marblehead_1 said:

Now imagine butthurt of some players for aviation cruiser 

Tone says Hi. A fun ship, too, and not game-breaking. What would the planes be on Mărășești be, I wonder? 

[Marblehead_1]

1 minute ago, invicta2012 said:

Tone says Hi. A fun ship, too, and not game-breaking. What would the planes be on Mărășești be, I wonder? 

Whole paragraph was about Gotland aviation cruiser http://www.navypedia.org/ships/sweden/sw_cr_gotland.htm

[invicta2012]

2 minutes ago, Marblehead_1 said:

Whole paragraph was about Gotland aviation cruiser

I know, but you were talking about players being offended by an aviation cruiser. I doubt they will be. 

[Marblehead_1]

32 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

I know, but you were talking about players being offended by an aviation cruiser. I doubt they will be. 

I only see that players in this game can be offeded by absolutely anything and by everything  so why not Swedish aviation cruiser Gotland?  Anyway premium CL with small air group ( I'm curious what loadout of airplanes she could recive - RN HE bombs? ) sounds interesting ( and this open way for something called Nisshin ) 

 

Also if we talk about Swedish cruisers Fylgia seems to be pretty interesting choice for TIII-IV with two different variants. 4*II 152 2*I TT, various AA including Boforses.

 

Her 1944 variant looks much more modern ( from far she looks like big destroyer? ) and with all this Boforses could be interesting anti CV. Let's imagine TIII ship with AA of TVII-VIII.

[fumtu]

4 hours ago, Marblehead_1 said:

Interesting choice. I'm not sure did Tre Kronor class could be higher than TVII ( or TVIII with gimmick like radar )

 

Well he buffed Tre Kroner, with little more displacement and 3x3m instead of 1x3+2x2 turrets. Tre Kroner should be T6-T7, depending on gimmick/stats. Pan European tree just don't have good T8-T10 cruisers, especially since Dutch and Spain will get their own separate tree. There is a proposal for large cruiser for Greece armed with 3x2 10inch guns

 

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/greek-large-cruiser-design-1939.20802/

 

There might be some other projects, but I am afraid it would be another line with "assume" and "might get" with mix of British, Italian and some other ships at high tiers.

[LukkaiCH]

Vor 11 Stunden, TheKaramelka sagte:

The highest at level 9 and 10 is the Tre Kronor class, there are no more applicants. And regarding Gotland - in Sweden such a ship could not be built due to the limited size of the shipyards (the largest ship that could be built would be Tre Kronor). Therefore, they could well have placed an order for the construction of a cruiser hull, since all the same, all weapons were produced by the Swiss company Bofors: 40, 57 and 152 mm

Of course they could have ordered something like that. But they would have likely done so elsewhere, with the Dutch capabilities probably already fully occupied with their own project. Britain is a classic for stuff like this. The US another possible source. Could even be a ship bought out of the respective navies at the end of WWII and then refitted to the own specifications.

 

What I wonder is whether there really is not a single European nation not already represented in the game that had any such project, at least on paper.

 

On that note, I just realised that an alternative for tier IV or for a premium ship would be a slightly modified Danae, with two of them (including the type ship) being leased to the Polish Navy during the war.

[TheKaramelka]

4 hours ago, fumtu said:

 

Well he buffed Tre Kroner, with little more displacement and 3x3m instead of 1x3+2x2 turrets. Tre Kroner should be T6-T7, depending on gimmick/stats. Pan European tree just don't have good T8-T10 cruisers, especially since Dutch and Spain will get their own separate tree. There is a proposal for large cruiser for Greece armed with 3x2 10inch guns

 

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/greek-large-cruiser-design-1939.20802/

 

There might be some other projects, but I am afraid it would be another line with "assume" and "might get" with mix of British, Italian and some other ships at high tiers.

I didnt buffed like that. He how was 1x3+2x2 and so it remained

[TheKaramelka]

3 hours ago, LukkaiCH said:

Of course they could have ordered something like that. But they would have likely done so elsewhere, with the Dutch capabilities probably already fully occupied with their own project. Britain is a classic for stuff like this. The US another possible source. Could even be a ship bought out of the respective navies at the end of WWII and then refitted to the own specifications.

 

What I wonder is whether there really is not a single European nation not already represented in the game that had any such project, at least on paper.

 

On that note, I just realised that an alternative for tier IV or for a premium ship would be a slightly modified Danae, with two of them (including the type ship) being leased to the Polish Navy during the war.

I know about OPR Dragon. And I thought to put it there. But you want a third Danae in the game? I don't see another Duguay-Trouin yet

[invicta2012]

10 hours ago, fumtu said:

There might be some other projects, but I am afraid it would be another line with "assume" and "might get" with mix of British, Italian and some other ships at high tiers

That's always going to be a problem of sorts, I think. Very few nations actually had the infrastructure needed to build very large ships so anything significant generally came from Britain, the US, Italy, etc. But there are enough interesting variations, proposals, etc to keep things fresh - rather like the Tier V hybrid in this proposed line. For a Pan-EU cruiser line, there are lots of British and Italian export designs for Portugal, Spain, and Turkey at Tiers V / VI / VII, the Tre Kronors would fit nicely at VI/VII, a 1944 DZP at Tier VIII / IX (two triple and two twin Bofors 152 mm/53 guns, six twin 40 mm AA and two triple 533 mm torpedo tubes), and perhaps some "proper cruiser" variations from the Dutch line for IX and X? I have to say I was disappointed with the Dutch cruiser line, so this would be an opportunity to go again with a more traditional set of cruisers.

[fumtu]

3 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

That's always going to be a problem of sorts, I think. Very few nations actually had the infrastructure needed to build very large ships so anything significant generally came from Britain, the US, Italy, etc. But there are enough interesting variations, proposals, etc to keep things fresh - rather like the Tier V hybrid in this proposed line. For a Pan-EU cruiser line, there are lots of British and Italian export designs for Portugal, Spain, and Turkey at Tiers V / VI / VII, the Tre Kronors would fit nicely at VI/VII, a 1944 DZP at Tier VIII / IX (two triple and two twin Bofors 152 mm/53 guns, six twin 40 mm AA and two triple 533 mm torpedo tubes), and perhaps some "proper cruiser" variations from the Dutch line for IX and X? I have to say I was disappointed with the Dutch cruiser line, so this would be an opportunity to go again with a more traditional set of cruisers.

 

It is not a problem to have British or Italian designs for Pan Eu cruisers, as that is understandable, IF those are designs actually for some of those countries. It is problem if, for some unknown reason we suddenly get explanation that if UK had ever built Goliath it might be sold to Poland as they previously gave/sold them Danae class cruiser. That is what I don't like. I also don't like putting DZP as a Sweden ship just because, it has Bofors guns. Unless there is really a plan to produce it for/in Sweden, it is just another stupid reasoning how some ship was added to some line. Why use Dutch ships for filling PE line, why not just put them in the Dutch line. 

[invicta2012]

7 hours ago, fumtu said:

Why use Dutch ships for filling PE line, why not just put them in the Dutch line. 

Largely because the Dutch line was a bit of pig's ear which no-one really likes, and because the '44 DZP design is different to the 50s DZP we have in the game. Admittedly the DZPs are a better fit for a Pan-American line, but I would like to see that original design in the game. 

 

7 hours ago, fumtu said:

It is problem if, for some unknown reason we suddenly get explanation that if UK had ever built Goliath it might be sold to Poland as they previously gave/sold them Danae class cruiser. That is what I don't like.

Agreed. Particularly when the situation re: Poland was rather different in 1946 than it was in 1942. 

[Itwastuesday]

On 11/23/2022 at 3:28 AM, LukkaiCH said:

I do like the concept of the tier V, I won't lie.

 

Absolutely not liking the justification for the tier IX though. "It would not have been difficult"? Building the hull is the biggest and most time intensive part of building the whole ship. Also the one that is taking a large enough dockyard to do it in, something that is rare from a certain ship size on and many nations will want to use for domestic projects first. Is there really no alternative out there? Something that at least was actually proposed on paper?

Well sure, but the game has soviet battleships and the soviets couldn't so much as manufacture armor for them. I wouldn't even blink if there was a "coulda maybe made" Swedish submarine battleship.

[LukkaiCH]

Vor 22 Stunden, TheKaramelka sagte:

I know about OPR Dragon. And I thought to put it there. But you want a third Danae in the game? I don't see another Duguay-Trouin yet

It doesn't have to be, of course. I just noticed that it would be a possibility. (And a chance to create a Danae with slightly different weaponry, maybe consumables. It could be interesting.)

 

Though you do have to help me here, because I simply can't find anything on it: Which one is the second Danae in the game?

 

(And I have a bit of a special place for Danae in my heart, I'll admit. It's what I got my first Double Strike on.)

 

 

Vor 13 Stunden, fumtu sagte:

 

It is not a problem to have British or Italian designs for Pan Eu cruisers, as that is understandable, IF those are designs actually for some of those countries. It is problem if, for some unknown reason we suddenly get explanation that if UK had ever built Goliath it might be sold to Poland as they previously gave/sold them Danae class cruiser. That is what I don't like. I also don't like putting DZP as a Sweden ship just because, it has Bofors guns. Unless there is really a plan to produce it for/in Sweden, it is just another stupid reasoning how some ship was added to some line. Why use Dutch ships for filling PE line, why not just put them in the Dutch line. 

In a way, there is a precedent in what WG did with the Kearsarge. I have to admit. A design that while produced by a US company was meant to be built for and sold to the Soviet navy. Why it's suddenly USN in the game (and with the name of a CV that at the time of the ship being built would already have been in planning, if not outright laid down to boot)... Unless it was meant as a test-run for the new planned USN hybrid-BB tech tree all along.

 

But I digress.

 

 

Vor 5 Stunden, Itwastuesday sagte:

Well sure, but the game has soviet battleships and the soviets couldn't so much as manufacture armor for them. I wouldn't even blink if there was a "coulda maybe made" Swedish submarine battleship.

Well, for those ships, there was at least some kind of project on paper. Not that they all would have been realised even if the Soviet would have had the capacities. But at least there is something to base them on.

 

And I'm not saying that Karamelka's idea is utterly stupid or anything. Not at all. But there's just not enough meat on the bone here for my taste. And I feel that if they were to purchase from somewhere, it would much more likely be from the British. There's gotta be something with more substance than that out there. Maybe with the Greek or Turkish, the Portuguese... Spain and Netherlands unfortunately fall flat, with them already having their own nations ingame. Does post-war Denmark have anything to contribute, maybe? (Checking... err, no. It doesn't)

[TheKaramelka]

5 hours ago, LukkaiCH said:

It doesn't have to be, of course. I just noticed that it would be a possibility. (And a chance to create a Danae with slightly different weaponry, maybe consumables. It could be interesting.)

 

Though you do have to help me here, because I simply can't find anything on it: Which one is the second Danae in the game?

Look more in devblog

5 hours ago, LukkaiCH said:

In a way, there is a precedent in what WG did with the Kearsarge. I have to admit. A design that while produced by a US company was meant to be built for and sold to the Soviet navy. Why it's suddenly USN in the game (and with the name of a CV that at the time of the ship being built would already have been in planning, if not outright laid down to boot)... Unless it was meant as a test-run for the new planned USN hybrid-BB tech tree all along.

because you're not looking as far as you should. The USA really designed the ship for the USSR, but the Soviet Union abandoned it, which is why the USA considered this project as well, but like the USSR abandoned it

5 hours ago, LukkaiCH said:

It doesn't have to be, of course. I just noticed that it would be a possibility. (And a chance to create a Danae with slightly different weaponry, maybe consumables. It could be interesting.)

 

Though you do have to help me here, because I simply can't find anything on it: Which one is the second Danae in the game?

 

(And I have a bit of a special place for Danae in my heart, I'll admit. It's what I got my first Double Strike on.)

 

 

In a way, there is a precedent in what WG did with the Kearsarge. I have to admit. A design that while produced by a US company was meant to be built for and sold to the Soviet navy. Why it's suddenly USN in the game (and with the name of a CV that at the time of the ship being built would already have been in planning, if not outright laid down to boot)... Unless it was meant as a test-run for the new planned USN hybrid-BB tech tree all along.

 

But I digress.

 

 

Well, for those ships, there was at least some kind of project on paper. Not that they all would have been realised even if the Soviet would have had the capacities. But at least there is something to base them on.

 

And I'm not saying that Karamelka's idea is utterly stupid or anything. Not at all. But there's just not enough meat on the bone here for my taste. And I feel that if they were to purchase from somewhere, it would much more likely be from the British. There's gotta be something with more substance than that out there. Maybe with the Greek or Turkish, the Portuguese... Spain and Netherlands unfortunately fall flat, with them already having their own nations ingame. Does post-war Denmark have anything to contribute, maybe? (Checking... err, no. It doesn't)

Greece didn't have such a large fleet, and Portugal too (Elli is from Greece here)

[Kruzenstern]

Only three copy-pasta-ships in the tree? That is not realistic at all

[invicta2012]

6 hours ago, LukkaiCH said:

It doesn't have to be, of course. I just noticed that it would be a possibility. (And a chance to create a Danae with slightly different weaponry, maybe consumables. It could be interesting.)

 

Though you do have to help me here, because I simply can't find anything on it: Which one is the second Danae in the game?

 

(And I have a bit of a special place for Danae in my heart, I'll admit. It's what I got my first Double Strike on.)

The Cordoba is a lazy copy pasta, there are many better Spanish CL designs than that one. Dragon or Dunedin would be better choices. 

 

38 minutes ago, TheKaramelka said:

Greece didn't have such a large fleet, and Portugal too (Elli is from Greece here)

Averof isn't though. She's a cruiser...

[LukkaiCH]

Vor 21 Stunden, TheKaramelka sagte:

Look more in devblog

Thanks, I completely missed that one.

Bit of a flimsy excuse on this particular one, I have to say. Not to my liking. I guess they really ran out of designs there.

Sounds as if it'll really be very much a copy though. So a version with some more changes may be in it. But eh.., it's not as if I think it has to be there, no matter what myself.

 

I see we will be getting a third Arethusa-class though. (Or close enough.) Granted, the first two (Chungking, HuangHe) are actually the exact same ship, just at slightly different times of its service (and ownership).

 

Zitat

because you're not looking as far as you should. The USA really designed the ship for the USSR, but the Soviet Union abandoned it, which is why the USA considered this project as well, but like the USSR abandoned it

We may have found different sources then. Because what I found was that the USN already had considered the possibilites of such ships in general prior to that project, found them to be not a viable use of resources. And in fact actively advised the Soviet against taking up the design.

Not that there is a whole lot of information about the thing in general. But we digress.