Groningen or Forest Sherman choice

[Deksi_4]

4 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Have Sherman and its a Beast, just don't play her as a DD. She is more like a Smolensk that on occasion can push in and take a cap. But just farm from range, farm from smoke, farm behind islands, shoot torps on cooldown and win a lot! Sherman SAP is DEVESTATING to all classes and you kill spotted DDs in a heartbeat. 5 km hydro isn't bad either....

And putting Halsey on her and getting Confederate, which you likely will, your guns turn into Miniguns.

 

Haven't played Groningen but its my next 1 M FXP buy so soon. Seems decent when looking at YT videos but think you need some skill to make her work. T9 Premiums is always good for credit/XP farm.

 

In my book Sherman is the clear choice. Its very similar ships, 2 DDs with next to none torps, decent AA, good DPM and both have bad conceal and hydro. Sherman just does everything better.

 

Also you must go range build on Sherman which makes you a little more sluggish 15-16 km farming Kleber but with better/fasted DPM.

 

This is pretty much how I play her, gunboating a lot in open, when the heat gets to great you pop smoke and continue to farm.

 

Thanks 

[Onsterfelijke]

14 hours ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Because Groningen/Friesland is just so crap in comparison, it isn't even funny. But it's for coop, so normal standards don't apply.

Nonsense Groningen is for free (EXP) but in the hands of good players do wonders.

[Onsterfelijke]

double post

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

50 minutes ago, Onsterfelijke said:

Nonsense Groningen is for free (EXP) but in the hands of good players do wonders.

Ok, I'll try to type slower: He wants to use it for coop games.

Normal standards do not apply, it's unbalanced and scary - not only playing the brain stroke inducing boring gamemode, but trying to use a ship that relies on fires in what basically is a steamroll every game.

 

Also:

 

https://shiptool.st/selected?s=AD610WD510&c=top&p=mb&rm=12

 

At 12km you're looking at 2,4s shorter flight times due to fantasy air drag values for the Forrest Dump, 7,4s instead of almost 10 seconds. That's huge. Maybe not so much when shooting at bots who only use the W key to maneuver.

[tocqueville8]

I'm playing both a lot these days.

 

Friesland is a better DD hunter tier-for-tier: she'll still run into Marceau, Ragnar, Vampire etc., but not as often.

 

Sherman is the better farmer: ballistics and SAP ftw. In particular, she's much less afraid of cruisers.

 

I rate them about the same, but they have different flavors.

[KillStealBoss]

17 hours ago, Europizza said:

I have Sherman but only played her in 3 battles. Didn't like her. I feel she is way too much cruiser for her class while taking a DD slot.

I have Friesland, and although initially she was fun, I wouldn't pick her in the current state of the game. T9 is kinda screwed, her AA doesn't mean much anymore, no torps = getting bumrushed by anything with armor and an HP pool. Superships vs. this thing? WG must be joking.

Guess you don't play the Elbing too. 

[neDomce]

I have only Groningen. I must say it is a dd I loathe to play because it is NOT maneuverable at all. You WILL NOT DODGE SHELLS; you will die to torps in your smokescreen.

Yes, a 1v1 you will win against most dds (unless torps. torps bad).

You have smoke and hydro so you have good chances against a push as well, however lategame you will get pushed by BBs in your smoke and cannot torp them and burn them in time to survive.

 

What i would suggest is pick and play Kitakaze instead Groningen. It is just the same good gunboat, it has torps it has better conceal and it lets you use fxp to get research bureau ships. 

 

[Deksi_4]

10 minutes ago, neDomce said:

I have only Groningen. I must say it is a dd I loathe to play because it is NOT maneuverable at all. You WILL NOT DODGE SHELLS; you will die to torps in your smokescreen.

Yes, a 1v1 you will win against most dds (unless torps. torps bad).

You have smoke and hydro so you have good chances against a push as well, however lategame you will get pushed by BBs in your smoke and cannot torp them and burn them in time to survive.

 

What i would suggest is pick and play Kitakaze instead Groningen. It is just the same good gunboat, it has torps it has better conceal and it lets you use fxp to get research bureau ships. 

 

@neDomceThanks for your advice. Kitakaze is really such a good ship from the YouTube clips watched but I dont have at the moment. Perhaps I could use my free XP to unlock Kitakaze in the Japanese gunboat line. I know it is better not to skip ships but I dont have a lot of time to play the game because of my work. Are Japanese gunboats tier 6,7,8 good ships? Should I keep them if I free Xp them? From high tier dds I play my Marceau in Co-op and when I have time in Randoms. But I am average in Marceau, it is high skill ceiling ship but even if I loose, it is a blast to play. 

[neDomce]

2 minutes ago, Deksi_4 said:

@neDomceThanks for your advice. Kitakaze is really such a good ship from the YouTube clips watched but I dont have at the moment. Perhaps I could use my free XP to unlock Kitakaze in the Japanese gunboat line. I know it is better not to skip ships but I dont have a lot of time to play the game because of my work. Are Japanese gunboats tier 6,7,8 good ships? Should I keep them if I free Xp them? From high tier dds I play my Marceau in Co-op and when I have time in Randoms. But I am average in Marceau, it is high skill ceiling ship but even if I loose, it is a blast to play. 

At Akizuki you need to learn to play again. It is nothing like the one before. Therefore, you can easily skip (fxp) to akizuki and aki is a very good ship in its own right. Do play it. Moreover it is t8, so you will not meet supershits.  

[Deksi_4]

Just now, neDomce said:

At Akizuki you need to learn to play again. It is nothing like the one before. Therefore, you can easily skip (fxp) to akizuki and aki is a very good ship in its own right. Do play it. Moreover it is t8, so you will not meet supershits.  

I wasnt interested at this gunboat line because the slow reload till tier 7. Reload of 7-10 seconds depending of the tier. That is poor balance for my liking. Thank you for your answer. I will listen to you and free Xp ships prior to Akizuki and then I will learn to play good. At least I will try🙂Have a nice rest off the day. 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, KillStealBoss said:

Guess you don't play the Elbing too. 

Correct. It's not that I think these are bad ships, I think they are be great by themselves. But I often feel too selfish in them.

[Figment]

"Er gaat niets boven Groningen."

[Ubertron_X]

12 minutes ago, Figment said:

"Er gaat niets boven Groningen."

If I read this simple sentence slowly enough even I can understand this west germanic language.

[NewHorizons_1]

4 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

If I read this simple sentence slowly enough even I can understand this west germanic language.

Bing translator failed on it.

[Figment]

1 hour ago, neDomce said:

I have only Groningen. I must say it is a dd I loathe to play because it is NOT maneuverable at all. You WILL NOT DODGE SHELLS; you will die to torps in your smokescreen.

Yes, a 1v1 you will win against most dds (unless torps. torps bad).

This happens to Friesland and Groningen, though you could try installing a different module for acceleration/steering improvement. In general, just don't lay still perpendicular to where torps might be coming from and you should be somewhat fine.

1 hour ago, neDomce said:

You have smoke and hydro so you have good chances against a push as well, however lategame you will get pushed by BBs in your smoke and cannot torp them and burn them in time to survive.

I presume you mostly use HE? Great deterrence if they're at range, but indeed that won't cut it up close. However, if you can get it to burn as it closes in and then switch to AP, you can actually do a whole lot of damage. Not something you can do to a lot of targets, but if you have to... You do need to get the drop on the BB and abuse its slow turret rotation.

 

Because if you hit BB upper decks (and cruisers even the citadel) with AP you can do a LOT of damage from close up. Just have to get to the side where the turrets aren't aiming. If you can do this from smoke and hydro or (pop out) from behind an island, you can completely cripple a BB this way. I've even ran circles around some BBs, avoiding the turrets getting a good shot up close and just spamming the upper deck for 30K+ AP damage alone in a very short amount of time. So if the BB is already burned a bit, you should be able to handle it if you hadn't lost too much health and it isn't paying too close attention. Generally they don't expect you to engage for obvious reasons, hence it works at times. :)

[Lootboxer]

20 hours ago, Europizza said:

I have Sherman but only played her in 3 battles. Didn't like her. I feel she is way too much cruiser for her class while taking a DD slot. 

That's my experience as well. Probably because I prefer to play DD as a DD and forcing a square peg into a round hole is not the best idea.

[Panocek]

38 minutes ago, Lootboxer said:

That's my experience as well. Probably because I prefer to play DD as a DD and forcing a square peg into a round hole is not the best idea.

Sherman/Gron need their private spotting slave to perform consistently, if you're sole DD at the flank, then flank is effectively lost before game started. Unless enemy team is more speshul than average that is

[Onsterfelijke]

4 hours ago, Karkong_the_Impaler said:

Ok, I'll try to type slower: He wants to use it for coop games.

Normal standards do not apply, it's unbalanced and scary - not only playing the brain stroke inducing boring gamemode, but trying to use a ship that relies on fires in what basically is a steamroll every game.

 

Also:

 

https://shiptool.st/selected?s=AD610WD510&c=top&p=mb&rm=12

 

At 12km you're looking at 2,4s shorter flight times due to fantasy air drag values for the Forrest Dump, 7,4s instead of almost 10 seconds. That's huge. Maybe not so much when shooting at bots who only use the W key to maneuver.

I agree you on that i was only saying it's only freeexp which is cheaper then coal i would always try to pickup free exp ships as i have enough free exp (while just having fun)

 

I used both ships (coop &random) and they are likewise but with the SAP you can do a lot more then the AP. And catching torpedoes in a smoke that is a newbie mistake you have hydro but i stay mostly at the border and more laywards so i can evade torpedo's easier. But the Groningen is a hell of a fire starter if you need fires and/or firedamage  and don't have a Smolesk the Friesland/Groningen is your ship.

 

[Figment]

8 minutes ago, Onsterfelijke said:

I agree you on that i was only saying it's only freeexp which is cheaper then coal i would always try to pickup free exp ships as i have enough free exp (while just having fun)

 

I used both ships (coop &random) and they are likewise but with the SAP you can do a lot more then the AP. And catching torpedoes in a smoke that is a newbie mistake you have hydro but i stay mostly at the border and more laywards so i can evade torpedo's easier. But the Groningen is a hell of a fire starter if you need fires and/or firedamage  and don't have a Smolesk the Friesland/Groningen is your ship.

If you can catch a DD without hydro within range from smoke, it can be absolutely devastating. I've had very good results in Ranked with Friesland. If you win the DD duels early there, you can pretty much guarantee the win as you have ample space to gunboat from safety (provided you're not the last one standing) and often your ally DD can torp freely after you clean up the screening party.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Sherman/Gron need their private spotting slave to perform consistently, if you're sole DD at the flank, then flank is effectively lost before game started. Unless enemy team is more speshul than average that is

Since it is co-op (he has ~1K random battles and > 10k co-ops), the enemy might be quite special (but home-team might be even more special).

I think he'll have no problem with spotters, everybody always YOLOs forward like pirañas on a bloody sausage.
His problem is mostly "which one can farm harder". Basically. I'd say Forrest "Dump" Sherman. 
 

[OldPappy]

I think it has been said above already, but I would get Groningen for fxp and hold on with byuing the sherman. 
There arent many fxp ships to get, but there are coming more coalships all the time. Wait and see. If you love Groningen then you can get sherman. 

[Karkong_the_Impaler]

11 minutes ago, OldPappy said:

There arent many fxp ships to get

All RB ships are basically rebranded and more expensive free exp ships. That is, if you're sane and like to keep it that way.

[lup3s]

8 hours ago, neDomce said:

you will die to torps in your smokescreen.

 

DD with Hydro dying to torps 

[tocqueville8]

3 hours ago, lup3s said:

DD with Hydro dying to torps 

 

Been there, done that, honestly 

 

The thing is, on the Daring/Druid I always turn on my hydro very diligently, but on Sherman/Vampire/Friesland/Z-52 I often hold out hope to use it offensively, plus it's shorter, so I delay it...and pay for it 

[Northern_Nightowl]

Vor 15 Stunden, Deksi_4 sagte:

Are Japanese gunboats tier 6,7,8 good ships? Should I keep them if I free Xp them?

The IJN gunboats aren't there on T5-7 or are possibly rather found in the torpedo line (look at the Akatsuki, for instance). Up to the T8 Akizuki, you rather get another flavour of torpedo-centric boats. They aren't bad (save for a bit short-ranged torpedoes on Minekaze), but I think that a 10 pointer captain is even more mandatory than on some other DD (you'll dearly need Concealment Expert for more tactical flexibility).

 

Regards, Nightowl